Ageing question

[Rivver]

Okay, this is something I'm still unclear about, and mostly because I have not been doing this long enough to thoroughly age a whiskey. Do most of you age the entire time on oak? Like 6 months to a year on oak or do you oak for a month or two then age in the bottle for a long time, or is this effectly doing anything by just aging in the bottle without oak? I noticed a difference in flavors on a gallon UJ that I had oaked for 3 weeks, then took the oak out and aged for a month in the bottle. To me the flavors mellowed out some, but could that be my memory playing a trick on me, it seemed as if it still had all the same flavors just more balanced and less sharp.

I was kind of scared to leave the oak on too long as I didn't want to over oak something and waste a good drink, but I haven't been able to test it yet to see how it would turn out over time.

I've been using aged white oak from the wood pile which I split small pieces of heart wood out and cut to 4" length then char. So they are not uniform sizes or shapes. Any advice or input is greatly appreciated.

[rtalbigr]

. The problem with aging in craft/hobby volumes vs. commercial volumes is the amount of contact between the wood and the spirits vs. time. A lot has been made about maintaining the equality of surface area to volume. In my opinion and experience, I don’t see that making any significant difference. To me it all comes down to time; time in contact with wood and time to allow the chemical reactions to occur or for the spirits to actually age. The problem as I see it is that in small volumes the extraction of compounds from the oak occurs faster than in large volumes. You can see that in how quickly the coloring occurs. But that doesn’t mean that the aging process is complete. In my experience, the aging process continues after the spirits are removed from contact with the wood and that the longer the time frame the more complete the aging process. I also don’t really see that time on oak is such a critical element within the process. There has to be enough time for proper compound extraction, but extended time doesn’t really harm the final product as long as there is sufficient time given for the aging process to go to completion.

Big R

[Rivver]

I think you are exactly right rtal, and that is my biggest problem. I've checked around at local hardware stores and I can not find any white oak, and even if I did it would most likely have been kiln dried. I've been using split white oak from the wood pile and I don't have a good way to make equal sized/surface area pieces of wood. I could have a piece that's twice as heavy as another with only 3/4 of the surface area. Sooooo.....

I think this will call for an experiment for me. 4-5 pints jars filled with the same distilate and approximately equal pieces of wood. Take the wood out of one jar at 1 month, next jar the next month and so on, leaving one pint on oak the entire time. See what happens in the end?

[Bushman]

Some folks use Jack Daniels chips that they buy at stores that sell BBQ's. They are sold for cooking and made from old Jack Daniels barrels. Some folks swear by them others feel it just imparts color and not flavor. All personal but if you can't find the wood you want you might give it a go.

[Rivver]

Thanks Bushman, I do have some JD chips next to the smoker that I might give a go sometime.

It's not that I can't find the wood, it's that I can't find uniform sizes to use. I love the flavor of charred white oak, I'm just wondering if I can make it better, and if aging the entire time on oak is the key, or aging for awhile on oak then removing and aging longer in the bottle will produce the flavors I'm after?

[Bushman]

Read through this thread!
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... ood+sticks

[rtalbigr]

It's not that I can't find the wood, it's that I can't find uniform sizes to use. I love the flavor of charred white oak, I'm just wondering if I can make it better, and if aging the entire time on oak is the key, or aging for awhile on oak then removing and aging longer in the bottle will produce the flavors I'm after?

Except for repeatability in experimentation, size uniformity isn't going to make that big of difference. What's important is having the spirits on oak long enough to extract the wood compounds and then a period of time for the aging to complete. Yes, it is subjective. In my experience a minimum of at least one year is necessary and more time is better, of course depending on volume, temp, etc.

I think you will find that toasting the oak first and then burning a light char will produce better results. Toasting does a better job of changing the wood to the compounds that are necessary for aging than does charring alone. The key is sustained heat (350-400F) for a sustained time so that toasting reaches a depth in the wood of 3-5 mm. This sustained heat changes the hemicellulose and lignins in the wood into wood sugars, vanillins, vanillic acid, etc that can then react with the alcohol to create the flavors in your whiskey.

Big R

[Rivver]

Thanks Rtal, I'll give it a try. I think I can try wrapping some up in alum foil and sitting it just inside my wood stove in the shop to get a nice toast on it. I just need to get some whiskey made for aging right now. Damn deer season really put a damper on my stillin.

[BareKnuckles]

I hear ya Rivver... Got a bunch of wash ready to still but deer season is still open... Gotta get that freezer stocked!@!@!!

[Rivver]

Been having any luck BK? Bow season was great, rifle season sucked for us. Doe population is really down on our farm and when the rut kicked in all the bucks took off. Waiting on muzzleloader season on the 15th, hoping the rut is winding down and they start returning to normal feeding patterns.

[BareKnuckles]

Sorry to hear Rivver... Our farm is swarming with slickheads... Killed a spike, a doe and a half rack 4 point. The other side was broken off. I posted about it in the "Anybody Huntin Thread... Couple of pics too...
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 4&start=96

Going back for late doe season Dec13th to 15th... Don't own a muzzle loader. I always bow hunt during that season...

I hope your aging is going well. I struggle with it as well...

-BK

[Rivver]

Sounds like you had a good season. Mine wasn't all bad, I've got a lot of meat, but I was hoping for some additional living room decor in the way of horns. A guy that works for me, his family has a large farm (almost 1000 acres) and they had does everywhere so they shot 'em up good, and he ended up giving me 2 does, and 2 yearlings that they didn't need. So I'm pretty well set for sausage meat, but I could used one or two more deer for burger and canner meat. I kept a couple front shoulders whole for smokin on the grill and a whole hind quarter off of a young one I'm doing a long cure on and aging. I've done several hams like this but never tried it on a deer.

Just got in our new 110 lb meat mixer yesterday!! Man this thing is a beast!! We are going to be making our first batch of sausage on the 29th of Dec, and I can't wait to try it out.

[beelah]

One place to get oak for aging is old wine or whiskey barrels...they are often sold as planters and are usually already cut in half....I got myself a half barrel of French white oak that had been used to age some cab Sauvignon...still had the nice dark red stain from the wine...took the rings off the barrel and separated the staves which are about 3/4 to 1inch thick..took a belt sander to the out side, cut the staves into square 3/4 x 3/4 pieces then put them on the BBQ to toast up.. I then cut the sticks into pieces about 3-4 inches in length and add two to three per 2 L jar....works great and you have a pretty large supply of oak...also I don't sand off the red wine stain and I don't toast that side...adds an interesting taste and colouring tot he end product...so far I have been only making UJSSM and I end up after 2-4 months with a nice bourbon/Canadian whiskey type product.