Stripping runs with continuous sour mashing method?

[sounder_4]

I've read several descriptions of the sour mash process of whiskey making and am left with a few unanswered questions. A good discussion on intermittent or continuous cycle sour mashing is found in Ian Smiley's book Making Pure Corn Whiskey, but the discussion falls short of explaining specifically how those methods incorporate a stripping, or what exactly to do with the stripped beer.....save it for a separate run later, or incorporate it into the next mashing cycle?

Sure would ne nice to find a complete and thorough discussion on sour mashing that includes a detailed discussion of how stripping runs are integrated into the process, if at all.

Anyone know where I can find such a discussion?

Where I'm at currently: Using Uncle Jessie's recipe form sour mash, I fermented 30 gallons and did a stripping run which yielded about 5 gals low wines. I cycled the backset from the stripping run into the fermenters, added sugar and topped with water, skimmed and replaced dead corn. I'm now ready to distill the second run. Questions at this point:

1) Do I do a stripping run on the the second batch as well?
2) Do I continue doing stripping runs on subsequent sour mash runs?
3) where/when does the stripping run material get re-distilled in the classic sour mash method?

As I said above, Smiley only mentions a stripping run on the first sour mash batch; he makes no reference to stripping on subsequent mash cycles. Is this an oversight? Or, is he suggesting doing spirit runs on the subsequent sour mash cycles? And if the later is true, then I'm wondering what he does with the product from the initial mash cycle stripping run? Does he simply add it to the second run, as Uncle Jessie suggests?

Lacking a more detailed description on how to proceed, I'm leaning toward doing a stripping run on each of the mash back cycles....and do a single spirit run at the end, using the 15 or 20 gals low wines stripped from 3-4 sour mash cycles.

None of the descriptions/discussions I've read thus far really spell out exactly how stripping integrates with the traditional sour mash method. I'm hoping folks here can clarify this for me, or at least point me toward reading material that thoroughly covers the topic.

[stillin]

Depends on your taste buds. Every time you run a wash you loose flavor. Some people single run, you end up with more flavor at a lower ABV and less spirits. Some people,like myself, do stripping runs, dilute the low wines to below 40% and do a spirit run. The latter equals more spirits at a higher ABV but less flavor. Try both and see which you like better and yes you can add low wines in with your next run of wash if you want. None of those methods are wrong it all comes down to what you like!

[lampshade]

Strip the first generation. Stripping subsequent generations is optional.

The reason I say that is you will most likely not want to drink the first generation because it will not have the sour flavor. So, strip the first generation and add the ethanol to the boiler charge of the second generation.

[emptyglass]

I've not read Ian Smileys corn whiskey book, but if he gives a recipie and a recomendation on how its to be run, I'd stick with that.
As far as UJ is concerned, follow the recipie.

If you want to strip, I'd say strip till you have enough low wines to do a spirit run, using the backset from the strip for your next gen.
Or you can run single slow runs.
Like stillin said, its up to your tastebuds.

[stillin]

Another option is too do stripping runs until you have enough low wines for a spirit run and dilute the low wines with backset from previous runs. Which is what I'm about to do with Odin's Cornflake Whiskey recipe. This will add some flavor. We could go on and on, the possibilities are really endless!

[WannaBeChef]

Where I'm at currently: Using Uncle Jessie's recipe form sour mash, I fermented 30 gallons and did a stripping run which yielded about 5 gals low wines. I cycled the backset from the stripping run into the fermenters, added sugar and topped with water, skimmed and replaced dead corn. I'm now ready to distill the second run. Questions at this point:

Curious how to do this and when since I have read the same book. Although reading through the forums, not many people think much of Ian's book.

[Bushman]

Curious how to do this and when since I have read the same book. Although reading through the forums, not many people think much of Ian's book.

Not sure I totally agree with your statement. A lot of the information in the book is good as is a lot of our information, you will find a lot of conflicting comments which confuse many. Look at the date of when it was posted or in Ian's book when it was written. We have come along ways just in the last 3 years with the new designed hobby stills and recipe development that makes some of the info outdated.

[Prairiepiss]

Um well. Do it however you want. Some like shipping runs and spirit runs. Some like single runs. So you just need to figure out what works best for you.

[sounder_4]

Where I'm at currently: Using Uncle Jessie's recipe form sour mash, I fermented 30 gallons and did a stripping run which yielded about 5 gals low wines. I cycled the backset from the stripping run into the fermenters, added sugar and topped with water, skimmed and replaced dead corn. I'm now ready to distill the second run. Questions at this point:

Curious how to do this and when since I have read the same book. Although reading through the forums, not many people think much of Ian's book.

I'm not clear on what you're curious about. Skimming dead corn or doing a stripping run?

[WannaBeChef]

Stripping the dead corn, not sure how soon to start removing the floating corn. Seems to be a lot the first 48 hours or so then almost quits.

[sounder_4]

Dead corn will float to the surface and is easily scooped out with a kitchen strainer. Just make sure to do it twice a day because the dead corn will eventually sink back to the bottom. As you remove dead corn, replace it with an equal volume of fresh corn; you can expect some of the fresh corn to contain dead kernels so as you're adding fresh you're also removing a small portion of new dead corn. You'll figure it out, it's easy.

[Prairiepiss]

Stripping the dead corn, not sure how soon to start removing the floating corn. Seems to be a lot the first 48 hours or so then almost quits.

You want go by an active ferment. During an active ferment first 48 hours. The grains will hitch a ride with the rising CO2 bubbles. And create a cap over the liquid. It's being held up by the active ferment. Then will sink. This does not mean it needs to be replaced. It will float on its own before the active ferment starts. And turn a greyish color.

[sounder_4]

I've never seen live corn float during ferment running UJSSM; everything floating that I've removed before/during/after ferment is gray and dead.

[goose eye]

Yup all the corn in the cap ain't spent grain


So IM tole

[sounder_4]

Y'all could be right, but the stuff that's floating looks gray and spent. I've been buying 40lb bags of cracked corn from the feed store....I think it just has a lot of crap in the mix that isn't yellow corn and as soon as I add the water a whole bunch of it floats right away...nuttin to do with a CO2 cap. I'm gonna find another source for corn. Ideas? Does flaked maize work for Uncle Jesse's type? I usually go 4 or 5 cycles.

[Prairiepiss]

Well when you add new corn to it. That new corn hasn't absorbed enough water to be saturated. So its gona float until it does.

I wouldn't use flaked corn for UJSSM. It would get depleted quicker then cracked corn. And add a bunch of starches to the mix.

[sounder_4]

yeah, but what I'm saying is that the feed corn I been buying has some debris in it that ain't yellow corn..........I need to find a supply of clean cracked corn. Any suggestions?

[S-Cackalacky]

yeah, but what I'm saying is that the feed corn I been buying has some debris in it that ain't yellow corn..........I need to find a supply of clean cracked corn. Any suggestions?

Just try a different brand. At Tractor Supply, Producer's Pride has a cracked corn product. I've never used it, but Producer's Pride has a pretty good reputation for good product.

S-C

[Hound Dog]

yeah, but what I'm saying is that the feed corn I been buying has some debris in it that ain't yellow corn..........I need to find a supply of clean cracked corn. Any suggestions?

I think you will find some suppliers have a lot of the corn cob ground up with the cracked corn. Cheap bastards.

[bellybuster]

I've been running a UJ since last feb. I have started over fresh twice. I only remove dead corn after syphoning to my boiler. I don't really pay attention to wether it is spent or not, I just scoop a couple pitchers worth and replace with fresh corn. I keep things simple. I start over when I am too lazy to get new ingredients in time.
I do simple single runs and really like the outcome. A single run doesn't get you less alcohol, just more flavourful and diluted. I did try a stripping/spirit run and found the product way too clean for my taste. Stripped most of the flavour and especially the corn smell out of it.

My next experiment with UJ is to pre soak the fresh corn for a few days prior to adding to the fermenter. Just sounds like a good idea.?

[sounder_4]

yeah, but what I'm saying is that the feed corn I been buying has some debris in it that ain't yellow corn..........I need to find a supply of clean cracked corn. Any suggestions?

I think you will find some suppliers have a lot of the corn cob ground up with the cracked corn. Cheap bastards.

yeah, that's what I think I'm dealing with.....material from the cob. That would explain why a shitload of stuff floats to the surface immediately after adding water...it's not corn kernels, it's debris left over from the cob stripping process. Cheap basturds is right!

Now I'm tasked with locating a supplier of quality cracked corn. Any suggestions? I'm in the states, left coast.

[sounder_4]

OK, I solved the mystery of the "dead corn". The large volume of debris that floated immediately upon adding water was not dead corn, it was small pieces of cob. The cracked corn was from a pet food supplier in my area known for deep discounts. Now I know why. Their product is effing crap. Today I went to a reputable feed and grain that caters to local farms and picked up 50 lbs of cracked corn, took it home and dumped about half into my igloo mash tun and filled it with water. VERY little debris floated to the surface, and everything that stayed submerged was a bright yellow as you'd expect from cracked corn. So bottom line is I was buying shit product from a crooked supplier. I guess there are no standards for the percent of actual corn in feed grain so it's buyer beware.

I now begin my semi-annual sour mash run tomorrow knowing I've got good starting material.