Indecisive Newbie Needing Advice

[Jif]

Hey all,

I'm nearly finished with my 15.5 gallon keg boiler build and have been stressing over what kind of still head to throw on top of this when it's complete.

I started out by reading "Making Pure Corn Whiskey" and "The Compleat Distiller," twice each. Both recommend using packed column based stills, with Ian Smiley even stating he uses one for flavored spirits in his work. I had pretty much come to the conclusion that a 2" VM build was the right place for me to begin my distilling process.

I've spent a lot more time reading online, both here and at Artisan-Distiller, and it seems that the majority is uncomfortable using a still with forced reflux for flavored spirits, instead suggesting that if my focus is bourbon and scotch (which is about 90% of what I drink) that I should be starting with a pot still.

I assume most of the answers are going to be "what's nice about this hobby is that you can't make a wrong decision" or "eventually you'll want both so you can use the pot still for stripping runs if you're making neutrals," but I'm looking for a more direct and practical answer. I assume I'm going to eventually end up with both, but as someone who hasn't distilled at all, which makes more sense to build first?

To me, a pot still seems to make a lot of sense as the runs will be shorter (if anyone can give me an idea of how much shorter a 10 gallon wash will be in a pot vs. a reflux still, that'd be helpful information), so I'll be more likely to distill more often. Distilling more often would get me more experience faster and it would hopefully be a faster learning tool to rub off the layers of being a newbie. I also assume that since making cuts is more difficult with a pot still, learning the skill would help eventually when I move to neutrals, as I'd have a deeper understanding.

However, starting with a reflux seems reasonable as well. Cuts will be more predictable by temperature. It seems to me learning to distill and learning to make cuts at the same time may be like learning to drive a manual, where you're learning two skills as once, rather than learning on an automatic transmission where I can just worry about learning to drive. While the runs will take longer, as long as I can get a product I'm happy with, I'm sure I'll be pushed to keep distilling.

It's pretty easy to make good arguments for both sides. I'd be very interested to hear from you much more experienced folks on your takes on what makes the most sense to start with. Thanks for reading all of this, and thanks in advance for your replies!

Also, so it's not a 100% image free post, see below pictures of my keg with holes drilled out (burned out a LOT of hole saws) and 2" ferrules welded in, along with some feet to get the keg off the floor along with my in progress work on my Variac based element controller.

[MitchyBourbon]

Both are good choices. I guess I'd have to come down on the side of the pot still. A pot still is going to be easier to build and easier to learn how to run. You will have plenty to learn running a pot still not to mention fermentation and aging.

[googe]

A pot is easy to build, easy to run, makes good product. boka's are easy to build too, some are slow as death, some are fast, depends what size you go. Ive never had a 2" reflux still but from reading here they can take 7hours plus per run. My old pot used to run about 1.8-2 lph. If your wanting whiskey I'd go a pot or a cm with 2-3 plates under it. I have a 3 plate coulmm and it makes a beautiful rum. stripping and doing a spirit run on a pot just doesn't compare to what taste a plated column can achieve!. There is a big thread here that mashrookie started, talking about using a reflux column for flavour, very good read!. You can make anything on any still, you just need to learn how to use it for that purpose, and to have a wash that suits that purpose. Cuts will be the best tool you can learn!!.

[YHB]

The other option and I believe the best is to be indecisive for a bit longer.

At some point you will probably need a Lieberg condenser or similar for a reflux still, it will also serve you well on a pot still.

So first off - make the condenser suitable for both, with some form of connector that will fit either - a union or similar.

At this point you will have everything you need except the bit in the middle. Why not take the easy choice, use a piece of pipe and make a pot still? the height of the pipe will probably be determined by the length of condenser you built.

Doing it this way, while you are deciding what reflux system to use you will have a pot still to play with.

In my case, once I started making flavoured drinks the need for neutral and a reflux still went away for a long time.

[pounsfos]

from someone that has built both

a keg is great as you can make to "heads" one for a pot still, then another for reflux (highly recommend boka, but a VM is great to)

check out my link to my still in my sig if you want
takes me 10 mins to remove packing and 2 mins to install packing back in, so I can run both, I will soon be modifying it again (once you get to stil building bug theres no going back) to make removing packing alot easier.

[Jif]

Both are good choices. I guess I'd have to come down on the side of the pot still. A pot still is going to be easier to build and easier to learn how to run. You will have plenty to learn running a pot still not to mention fermentation and aging.

As an aside, I'm not too worried about the fermentation side. I've brewed beer for about eight years, five or so of that all grain. I was planning on jumping right into all grain whiskey mashes.

A pot is easy to build, easy to run, makes good product. boka's are easy to build too, some are slow as death, some are fast, depends what size you go. Ive never had a 2" reflux still but from reading here they can take 7hours plus per run. My old pot used to run about 1.8-2 lph. If your wanting whiskey I'd go a pot or a cm with 2-3 plates under it. I have a 3 plate coulmm and it makes a beautiful rum. stripping and doing a spirit run on a pot just doesn't compare to what taste a plated column can achieve!. There is a big thread here that mashrookie started, talking about using a reflux column for flavour, very good read!. You can make anything on any still, you just need to learn how to use it for that purpose, and to have a wash that suits that purpose. Cuts will be the best tool you can learn!!.

I hadn't read that thread by mashrookie, but it is helpful and echoes a lot of what was covered in the book "Making Pure Corn Whiskey," in that by separating fractions and blending amounts of heads and tails back in, you'll end up with a great product. My only concern from the book was that the author's goal was corn whiskey, i.e. moonshine. I'm shooting for bourbon and single malt whiskey, which seems like a different animal to me, but this thread is reassuring.

The other option and I believe the best is to be indecisive for a bit longer.

At some point you will probably need a Lieberg condenser or similar for a reflux still, it will also serve you well on a pot still.

So first off - make the condenser suitable for both, with some form of connector that will fit either - a union or similar.

At this point you will have everything you need except the bit in the middle. Why not take the easy choice, use a piece of pipe and make a pot still? the height of the pipe will probably be determined by the length of condenser you built.

Doing it this way, while you are deciding what reflux system to use you will have a pot still to play with.

In my case, once I started making flavoured drinks the need for neutral and a reflux still went away for a long time.

That's a good idea. I'll work on a liebeg first, as I'll need it both for a pot still and a VM head.

from someone that has built both

a keg is great as you can make to "heads" one for a pot still, then another for reflux (highly recommend boka, but a VM is great to)

check out my link to my still in my sig if you want
takes me 10 mins to remove packing and 2 mins to install packing back in, so I can run both, I will soon be modifying it again (once you get to stil building bug theres no going back) to make removing packing alot easier.

I was expecting to eventually build both, and the keg+triclamp solution is a great one.

Why do you prefer your Boka over a VM? From everything I've read, the Boka's main advantage is that it's cheap and easy to build, and that it also get better heads separation than a VM. Everyone touting VM builds says that Bokas are more difficult to run and need more attention, as the required valve setting to keep the same amount of reflux through the run changes. The only downsides I've heard on a VM are cost, difficulty to build, and the fact that there's a lag between changing valve settings and change in reflux/product produced. Would love to be convinced to build a cheaper, simpler still.

[heartcut]

Lots of ways to get there. This design will make a fast 2" potstill without the coil and a reflux with the coil slipped in. Column length would be determined by how much neutral you want to make. An TC extension could always be added later. Good luck.

[Prairiepiss]

I am sory but a VM is a horrible choice for anyone wanting to make a flavored drink. They are great for making neutrals. If that's all you want to make.

If you are after a flavored drink. A pot still is the best choice to start with.
If you are after mainly a flavored drink. But would like to dabble in making a good vodka. A cm still would be a good choice.
If you are after a decent flavored drink and a decent neutral. An LM reflux still is a good choice.
If you are only after a really good neutral. Then a VM is a good choice.
A pit still can be a great addition to both a LM and a VM. For stripping and or making flavored drinks. Where a cm is really a hiperformance pot still.
And a combo still like a LM/VM combo. Can give you more versatility. And cleaner output.

I would say for you. Build a pot still. Run it. Learn it. And do a lot more research on the different reflux designs. So you can make a better informed decision.

[Jif]

Lots of ways to get there. This design will make a fast 2" potstill without the coil and a reflux with the coil slipped in. Column length would be determined by how much neutral you want to make. An TC extension could always be added later. Good luck.

I haven't seen any devices like this. Without a valve of any sort to hit an equilibrium, is the hope just that the reflux coil is causing enough reflux to increase the separation of phases or is its purpose to raise the ABV of a pot stilled product?

I am sory but a VM is a horrible choice for anyone wanting to make a flavored drink. They are great for making neutrals. If that's all you want to make.

If you are after a flavored drink. A pot still is the best choice to start with.
If you are after mainly a flavored drink. But would like to dabble in making a good vodka. A cm still would be a good choice.
If you are after a decent flavored drink and a decent neutral. An LM reflux still is a good choice.
If you are only after a really good neutral. Then a VM is a good choice.
A pit still can be a great addition to both a LM and a VM. For stripping and or making flavored drinks. Where a cm is really a hiperformance pot still.
And a combo still like a LM/VM combo. Can give you more versatility. And cleaner output.

I would say for you. Build a pot still. Run it. Learn it. And do a lot more research on the different reflux designs. So you can make a better informed decision.

That's strange, this is the first recommendation of anyone suggesting a CM, really for any person. Almost any mention of a CM is coupled with the warning not to use them. I've also heard this was more based on older CM designs however.

It seems to me that the best first still for my needs (primarily flavored drinks, probably some gin down the line) is a pot still. I can start by making a liebeg on a union that can be moved to an eventual compound reflux still when I decide I want to venture that way.

[aj2456]

i was in a similar bind so i took the easy way out- pot still all the way- but bought some "spares"

so a boka build is v likely when i get the pot still figured out

the fact that ur asking these questions means what ever u decide im sure it will be a great choice ( yet to find any bad ones suggested on the site as far as i can tell)

[googe]

A pot is easy to build, easy to run, makes good product. boka's are easy to build too, some are slow as death, some are fast, depends what size you go. Ive never had a 2" reflux still but from reading here they can take 7hours plus per run. My old pot used to run about 1.8-2 lph. If your wanting whiskey I'd go a pot or a cm with 2-3 plates under it. I have a 3 plate coulmm and it makes a beautiful rum. stripping and doing a spirit run on a pot just doesn't compare to what taste a plated column can achieve!. There is a big thread here that mashrookie started, talking about using a reflux column for flavour, very good read!. You can make anything on any still, you just need to learn how to use it for that purpose, and to have a wash that suits that purpose. Cuts will be the best tool you can learn!!.

when I first came here I read the same about cm's, people still do say there hard to run, I totally disagree, I find them great to use and versatile. I think the older ones that people said were hard to run just didn't design them well, like any still, if you don't design or build it properly it's not gunna run how you perceived it to.

[DAD300]

There is nothing easier or cheaper to build than a Condenser Controlled VM...

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 17&t=41579

Everything shown there in Stainless Steel can be done in copper and has been. It's the one design that requires no expensive valve purchase, no pipe cutting, no plate soldering and gives you all the control of a valve.

And while VM's do make great neutral, if you want to make more flavorful drinks, run longer and collect more tails. Then mix the tails back into your final product to get the taste you desire. Mixing, blending, like this gives you more control over the final taste than trying to do it during the distillation. There are posts here about blending...

There's another current thread about a guy trying to fix too much corn flavor. And while that is fixable, if he were blending after distilling, he could have prevented that.

[DuckofDeath]

My flute Is basically a CM design. The Dephlamator controls the flow via cooling.