Wiring the 10000W SCR for 110V

[humbledore]

Hi all hope this info is not redundant. Was going to post to Jimbo's awesome electric conversion thread but didn't want to put that one off track. After a lot of reading, looking at diagrams, and thinking (hard work) I gathered that this is the way you would wire the 10000 watt SCR controller for 110V. If this is wrong please tell me and I will fix and repost! One thing I know is different from Jimbo's is that I don't put both the hot and neutral through the SCR, just the hot because the neutral post looks like a pass thru.

I am doing this with a 1/4 barrel for 5 gallon batches. If it works well I will probably follow Jimbo's thread to a T but I will have to get someone in here to wire up a 220 socket.

[S-Cackalacky]

That's the same one I use. I suggest you wire it with 8 or 10 guage wiring. That way it will be simple enough to convert it over to 240V. Several other people here are using that same controller - haven't heard any complaints.

S-C

BTW - I ran the ground to the heatsink and then from there to the boiler. Don't know if it's necessary, but that's how I did it.

[humbledore]

Yeah, I probably should but I already l picked up 12 gauge wire. Plus the plugs, etc are different. As long as 12g is ok I am good with redoing it later. It will be a while before I could do 220.

Forgot to add I will be using the same heating element from Jimbo 's thread so it will run at 1375 w.

[humbledore]

BTW - I ran the ground to the heatsink and then from there to the boiler. Don't know if it's necessary, but that's how I did it.

I would definitely like to know if that is a requirement, do you recall where that info came from?

[humbledore]

S-C I see on this other thread what your plan is in going from 110 to 220. Some good thinking.

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=44029

I have to admit I have been searching your posts trying to find a build thread... Do you have one? I've learned a lot but haven't seen the whole thing laid out yet.

[S-Cackalacky]

BTW - I ran the ground to the heatsink and then from there to the boiler. Don't know if it's necessary, but that's how I did it.

I would definitely like to know if that is a requirement, do you recall where that info came from?

Don't know exactly. I've heard of others saying they grounded to their controller box. Since mine is plastic, I grounded to the heatsink. But, I also made sure the ground went all the way through to the boiler. I can't tell you if it's absolutely necessary. Maybe someone with more experience can give some input.

S-C

[S-Cackalacky]

S-C I see on this other thread what your plan is in going from 110 to 220. Some good thinking.

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=44029

I have to admit I have been searching your posts trying to find a build thread... Do you have one? I've learned a lot but haven't seen the whole thing laid out yet.

I have a build thread, but it's embarassing. I'm a fumbling idiot when it comes to anything electrical. WVCooker pretty much talked me through it. He has the patience of a monk. Here's the link to my build - http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 9&start=20 . If nothing elese, it should be fairly easy to follow.

S-C

[humbledore]

Hey do not be embarrassed, I am probably worse off! For every guy like you there are 10 more behind you trying to collect all the bread crumbs to do what you've done. Thanks for that link, I'm sure my questions are not done yet.

[humbledore]

Here is my current state. First off this is a temporary box just for testing because I haven't yet located a good case. Second, there is no fan here, gonna see how hot it gets on a test run. Line in is on the left, AC out to the element is on the right. The controller box out will end in a female plug, the pigtail of the element will be a male. I broke with my own wiring diagram and connected the white to the pass through on the board. I grounded the "case".

Edit: not sure if it is clear, but the AC in enters from the left and curls around and attaches to the right side of the PC, opposite for the AC out.

If any of this looks off please let me know or I will find out the hard way (110V, so hopefully nothing life threatening will result).

[Due51]

I am a little confused on if I'm supposed to ground my box, too. I read Jimbo's thread about 20 times and in it he says, "The box is grounded with a screw through thebox, ground lugs on all the neccesary wires and nuts to hold it all tight." But I asked a guy at work, and he said I should not.

I have 8ga wire running from the box (2 hot insulated solid aluminum, 1 uninsulated neutral aluminum strand). The 10ga wire I'm running to the keg is also 3 wire (1 black & 1 gray (hot), 1 white (neutral)). The white (neutral) is bolted to the skirt of the keg.

B __black hot_____________________ S_________black hot_____________________K
O__black hot_____________________ C_________gray hot______________________E
X__neutral strand_________________ R_________white neutgral_________________G

[humbledore]

I am not sure I see the harm in grounding the box itself, wouldn't that insure if anything shorted out inside the box I would not get zapped by touching it? Speaking as a non-electrician of course.

[humbledore]

Updated diagram. This matches what I am showing in the pic.

[humbledore]

On grounding the box, Jimbo on this thread (first post on this page) says "Also dont forget to ground the control box also, its easily missed...". I'm going with the engineer on this one.

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 6&start=95

[F6Hawk]

Why did you change the wiring? First diagram you went wall to element with the neutral, and second one has neutral going thru the SCR.

[humbledore]

If you look at the bottom of the SCR that terminal is soldered directly to the other one. It is a pass-thru. I was going to skip it and wire nut the two ends together but I had a brain fart and attached it, so I left it. I think either diagram will work. On Jimbo's build thread he also uses the pass thru terminal.

[F6Hawk]

Good to know. It would really suck to put power straight to the element, neutral thru the solder leg, and leave the controlled leg untouched.

[humbledore]

I'm collecting links to a few threads with related info.

Mr. P's 110V harbor freight router control build:
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 62&t=28179

Here's rager's ongoing post about 110v with the 10kW SCR I'm working with. Interesting comments about having one build for both 110V and 240V:
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 15&t=44029

And Jimbo's most excellent electric conversion thread (I already linked to it in the first post but here it is again):
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... =2&t=43456

These two threads on keg mods:

Bellybuster's classic electric conversion thread (referred to here for the keg mods, he is running a different controller):
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... =2&t=36347

my attempt at welding a fitting onto a keg without special solder or flux, plus a weld spud product which is good:
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... =2&t=43652

I will update the above as I find more.

Seems pretty clear that a single 240V 5500W element runs only at 1375W on 110V and may not be sufficient to power a decent reflux on a 2" column. The common approach is to have two of these elements and plug one straight into the wall and use the controller on the other (Mr. P's thread outlines this). However S-Cackalacky is able to run a pot still effectively by all accounts.

[Jimbo]

I am a little confused on if I'm supposed to ground my box, too. I read Jimbo's thread about 20 times and in it he says, "The box is grounded with a screw through thebox, ground lugs on all the neccesary wires and nuts to hold it all tight." But I asked a guy at work, and he said I should not.

Everything metal that you can touch must be grounded. You dont know whats gonna fail and short to what. If its metal, and your body can touch it, ground it.

[Jimbo]

If you look at the bottom of the SCR that terminal is soldered directly to the other one. It is a pass-thru. I was going to skip it and wire nut the two ends together but I had a brain fart and attached it, so I left it. I think either diagram will work. On Jimbo's build thread he also uses the pass thru terminal.

scr_bottom.jpg

Thats not a straight pass through, if you look close theres a trace coming off it that feeds the circuit elsewhere.

[humbledore]

Ok would it be accurate to say that the neutral should always be wired through that terminal rather than direct? Or in the case of 240, the two "hots" as your schematic shows. BTW I am doing the test run as I type this. Working great, 205F at 45 minutes on 5 gallons.

[F6Hawk]

Yeah, I would wire it thru the terminals. You don't know what the circuitry does inside with the other leg, but since it goes elsewhere besides just straight thru, I'd say it was important.

[Jimbo]

N or Hot 2 must be wired either to or through that terminal or the rectifier wont work

Congrats on passing the smoke test Nice work!

[humbledore]

Thanks Jimbo! Here are some details for my test run. First of all, if you are a beginner trying to follow this thread IGNORE THE SCHEMATIC IN POST #1. It is wrong as you can see if you read the whole thread. The second schematic is the correct one. Now in these pictures I am doing some probably unsafe things, like running the controller without a cover, the same for the element. the terminals are exposed. Not a good idea for 110V, probably a very bad idea for 240V. Just sayin'. Anyway I wired it all up, filled the keg with 5 gallons of room temp (68F) water. This covered the element by about 1.25". So there is a concern I have to address about minimum volume of wash in this setup, that's for later. For now I crossed my fingers and turn the SCR knob up, I heard a bit of a buzzing sound about half way through. I looked inside, you could see the water being heated right next to the element. Look at the shadows between the elements here, the water is moving.

As I ran the heat sink started to get hot. Not melt-down hot, but hot. I grabbed a PC fan I had set aside for this and quickly wired it and just laid it on top blowing down. Worked great. It kept a constant temp throughout the run of around 86F. So this reinforces what others have said, a fan is probably needed.

Here are my temps and times:
15 minutes - 138F water temp.
20 - 154F
25 - 167F
30 - 182F
35 - 195F
40 - 204F
45 - 206F
50 - 209F
55 - 210F
60 - 210F

I'm not sure if it was my probe placement or what, but the water was definitely boiling around the element. It's just that the entire mass of wash was not in a rolling boil. So I never measured 212F. But steam was coming out at a decent pace. Still remains to be seen if it will drive a 2" column into reflux. This was right around 40 minutes:

So all in all, it works, it was easy enough thanks to all the work that has gone before and all the help you folks have given, and I did not zap myself once, knock on wood. Next up I need to finish my controller housing. I love the thinking that S-Cackalacky has put into having a 110/240V ready system just with cable switchouts. I may go back and get me some 10/2 cable and rewire this thing before I try and make it nice and finished.

[humbledore]

Just to check back in, yes this setup will drive reflux in a 2" boka column. I have moved up to a full keg and two elements, one plugged directly into the wall that gets unplugged when up to temps. Next up, I am going to try something a little different with the housing. I've removed the pot from the board, should allow for some different configurations.

[Due51]

Just to check back in, yes this setup will drive reflux in a 2" boka column. I have moved up to a full keg and two elements, one plugged directly into the wall that gets unplugged when up to temps. Next up, I am going to try something a little different with the housing. I've removed the pot from the board, should allow for some different configurations.

pot_off.jpg

Well, I'll be.... As I was trying to install the SCR into my control box, I took great caution to avoid breaking off that control knob from the mother board.

Learn somethin new every day here.

[Jimbo]

There's also some traces on the pcb right up to the edge of the board behind the pot. Be a serious issue with a metal box. Removing the pot makes sense for a lot of reasons. That, and a more sturdy mount for teh board etc. Nice work.

[Due51]

There's also some traces on the pcb right up to the edge of the board behind the pot. Be a serious issue with a metal box. Removing the pot makes sense for a lot of reasons. That, and a more sturdy mount for teh board etc. Nice work.

Can you elaborate on the "serious issue with a metal box"? I mounted mine in a metal box and have run it a few times with little to no heat radiating from the box. I have a computer fan installed in the box but don't have it hooked up.

[Jimbo]

If you look at the PCB there are traces carrying high V up against the vey edge of teh pcb along the edge the pot is mounted. So if you push teh board up agasint a metal box, with pot mounted through hole. That high v could short againt the box. In my electric conversion thread I mentioned cutting a plastic shim as an insulator.

[Due51]

If you look at the PCB there are traces carrying high V up against the vey edge of teh pcb along the edge the pot is mounted. So if you push teh board up agasint a metal box, with pot mounted through hole. That high v could short againt the box. In my electric conversion thread I mentioned cutting a plastic shim as an insulator.

I do recall you mentioning the shim. I misunderstood your meaning. I thought the shim was to protect the box against heat, not voltage. Damn. I will remedy that tonight. Good info. Thanks very much.

[Jimbo]

Humbledore, can you post a picture of the bottom of the PCB. mine is buried in my box. Curious if they are all layed out like mine, its very sloppy PCB work.

Due, if you have N running through that leg, it wont be deadly if it shorts to the box (which I hope you have grounded). And it wont blow a breaker (but it will blow a GFCI breaker). If however you have Hot through that leg, Your box will either go live and create a serious shock hazard, or, if the box is grounded, it will blow the breaker and likely blow your SCR.

Either way, you should insulate it, you dont want N or Hot touching teh box.

Edit: Humbledore has a pic below. Not hot along that edge but the traces do go up to the edge, and if shorted will cause problems. For some reason I recall them being hot, sorry, perhaps mistaken. But a problem nonetheless if shorted.