Glucoamylase

[Jolly John]

In my search for glucoamylase in the UK, I eventually came across this product supplied by AB Vickers, suppliers to the brewing industry.
http://www.abvickers.com/glucoamylase.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

I have attached a copy of the spec. sheet, if any of you, with a lot more knowledge than me, cast eye over it, and tell me if it suitable for use with corn whiskey mashes.

[aj2456]

yup that looks like the stuff you want, now good luck getting it in sensible amounts for a sensible price (for referance i payed £25 approx for my lb once i got hit by import etc)

[Dan P.]

In my search for glucoamylase in the UK, I eventually came across this product supplied by AB Vickers, suppliers to the brewing industry.
http://www.abvickers.com/glucoamylase.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

I have attached a copy of the spec. sheet, if any of you, with a lot more knowledge than me, cast eye over it, and tell me if it suitable for use with corn whiskey mashes.

Jolly John, my very brief flirtation with enzymes ended in the conclusion that there was no reason to use them over using diastatic malt.
May I ask why you want to use enzymes instead of malt?

[Jolly John]

Hi Dan. Thanks for coming back. I am getting my information from Smiley's book 'Making pure corn whiskey', where he quotes:

"Gluco-amylase is a laboratory-prepared enzyme that is used in mashing to reduce, if not
eliminate, the proportion of unfermentable sugars in the mash. Mashing using malt enzymes
produces a small proportion of unfermentable sugars (dextrins, and polysaccharides). In
brewing, these unfermentable sugars are essential to the body and malt character of the beer,
but in distilling they only represent lost alcohol yield. By employing gluco-amylase, these
unfermentable sugars are converted to fermentable sugars and thereby increase the overall
yield.

"Gluco-amylase as used in the distilling industry is produced by pharmaceutical companies
and is not easily accessible in small quantities by the home distiller. Another form of it is
packaged for homebrewers to be used in making dry beer, and can be purchased at home
brewers’ supply shops. It’s often just called “amylase” in these shops.

Some home distillers have observed that the use of homebrewers gluco-amylase has very
little affect on the reduction of unfermentable sugars, and have decided to stop using it
altogether. It’s suggested that you prepare a batch or two without using gluco-amylase and
compare the Terminating Gravity (TG), explained in the Chapter on Fermentation, to the TG
of batches prepared with gluco-amylase. If the gluco-amylase is working well you will
observe a noticeably lower TG when it is used."

I am getting far more information from this site nowadays though.

[aj2456]

i did read someone had done a proper expt with beano pills in beer (with a ultra fermentable wort) and they did notice a difference-

however i never reckoned it was worth shelling out for the tablets though:
http://byo.com/low-alcohol-brewing/item ... -you-think" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[Jolly John]

I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that it just ain't worth it. I will get in touch with the AB Vickers distributor in the New Year, just to find out the price. Unfortunately, it looks like it comes in 25kg bottles, and has a shelf life of 6-12 months. Doesn't look like a goer to me!

[MitchyBourbon]

There are two drawbacks to glucoamylase. It needs to be in acidic environment. Because of this it does not work well with alpha amylase and beta amylase.

[Dan P.]

I would be interested in the numbers difference between using malt and using enzymes, or enzymes + malt. If you are converting grain by the tonne it probably makes sense, but otherwise, it seems like a faff. Must you absolutely have every last drop of carbohydrate converted to alcohol? It seems one of the many instances where Smiley misses the point.

[Jolly John]

I would be interested in the numbers difference between using malt and using enzymes, or enzymes + malt. If you are converting grain by the tonne it probably makes sense, but otherwise, it seems like a faff. Must you absolutely have every last drop of carbohydrate converted to alcohol? It seems one of the many instances where Smiley misses the point.

I absolutely agree with you! It appears to make no sense for home distilling, the more I read here, the more I get a sense of balance.

[Grey_Meadow]

I found some information on various enzymes including Gluco-amylase at the following website
http://www.specialtyenzymes.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
and you can buy small quantities at
http://www.enzymash.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

I got the following email from Jason at Specialty Enzymes & Biotechnologies
==================================================================
I would recommend http://www.enzymash.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow for your inquiry about unmalted cereal grain conversions. The following are our recommended procedures for unmalted cereal grain conversions.

SEBflo TL = Beta-glucanase
SEBstar HTL = High temperature alpha-amylase
SEBamyl GL = Glucoamylase

With regards to distillery mashes from starch we usually recommend a two-fold approach of Liquefaction and Saccharification. Before that though, we might want to handle that beta-glucan problem…

1. Once the grain has been added to the water, add beta-glucanase (SEBflo TL) at about 100 F as the temperature is rising, it will continue to work up to about 160 F. This enzyme needs roughly 30min to work, try not to inactivate it before that. This enzyme will break down the viscosity increasing beta-glucans of the wheat and prevent a sticky mash.
Beta-glucans are only present in: Wheat, Barley, and Rye in any significant amounts. Other grains will not be, or will be only partially affected by Beta-glucanase (SEBflo TL). Adjust dosing as necessary.

2. Liquefaction - Taking the mash to a high temperature of 175-185 F, and using a high temp alpha-amylase (SEBstar HTL) to break the starches down into dextrins. Recommend an iodine test every 10-15min to confirm complete conversion.
The alpha-amylase is a random cutter, so there will be large and small dextrins (random sugars) created in this process.

3. Saccharification - Cooling the mash down to about 135 F and adding a glucoamylase (SEBamyl GL) do not add until the mash temperature is 135 F or so, the enzyme will denature. This enzyme will turn all the larger dextrins (3,4,5 chain sugars) into small sugars that the yeast can eat to make more ethanol.
Recommend holding the 135 F temperature for 1 hour before continued cooling to fermentation temperatures, but it is your choice.
==================================================================

I haven't tried any of this product yet. I expect I will try and experiment with both laboratory enzymes and natural grain enzymes. I am sure that the lab enzymes will work well at converting the starches, but I wonder if there will be a loss of flavor if the starches are converted complete.

Grey

[stevem1928]

Someone at SEB stated sebamyl will denature above 135f? I may have to add the sebamyl at a lower temp. I have been adding in it at 150f.

This quote is from the sebamyl pdf.
"SEBamyl GL is stable over a temperature range of 30 – 65C."