3" Shotgun Build

[Scribbler]

BigSwede suggested I start this thread to document my new 3" product condenser.

The shotgun - Gatling gun will be 3" diameter, 18" long, and have 12x 1/2" ID condenser tubes. I will begin transferring the documentation in the next posts.

[Bushman]

That sounded like a lot of 1/2" tubes so I layed it out in CAD and if you divide the outside tubes into 8 equal sections and then 4 inside tubes on the quadrants it looks pretty nice. Interested in seeing your plans with the water in and out locations.

[Bob Loblaw]

Holy shite! How much wattage are you planning to use? That thing will probably knock down 10,00 watts. Sounds more like a dephlag than a condensor!

[Sungy]

Im using a 4 barrel shot gun product condenser that is 16 inch tube lengths inside a 2 inch shell. I can throw 6500 watts at it and the water only heats up 6-8 degrees through the condenser using 75F water. When I run 3000 watts it only raises the temp 2-3 degrees. I do run all my pump water through this condenser all the time and have a three way valve on the outlet of the this product condenser to bypass water around the dephleg for reflux rate control.

[Scribbler]

Here are some basic numbers I put together, comparing it to a standard Liebig, and to a 7x 1/2" OD condenser that BigSwede made:

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This is the hole pattern I am using (I couldn't seem to make a 8-4 pattern work as nicely as this 9-3 one...)

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[Scribbler]

Here is a mockup I did from 1/4" craft plywood just to make sure there was decent space between condenser tubes:

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[Scribbler]

Using a sandwhich jig to locate and drill pilot holes

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[Scribbler]

Drilling holes for condenser tubes

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[Scribbler]

Test fitting condenser tube into end cap plate. Tight fit -too tight. Had to sand down the tube so it could slide in.

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[Bushman]

In my CAD I did not add the OD but looked as though there would be enough room. But like Bob L. says it probably is more than is needed. Your build is looking good keep the progress coming.

[Scribbler]

Used this homemade router gantry table i built to make my water in-out fittings from brass.

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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WXw-6hRgJto" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[Scribbler]

Here are pics of the brass fitting.

They are for tangential cooling water in/out. (I made it out of 1" brass rod, drilled it out, threaded it for npt threadings, then used my router gantry to cut the appropriate radius to match the water jacket. Then cut the piece in half making two.

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[Scribbler]

Regarding the amount of power this condenser will handle... Yes. Quite a bit.

-I am hoping this will be the last condenser I ever make!!! I recently started reading up on plates, bubble caps, and whatnot.... After THIS is built, I suspect I know what's next.

[MoonBreath]

I like it ...A thermo and site glass would put it over the top!

[Chroi]

holy. crap.

I'm still shuffling between my 2" and 3" gattling guns. Was gonna do 7x 1/2" for the 3"

You're putting me to shame!

Can't wait to see it finished

[BigSwede]

Ha! I thought my big shotgun would be the "last condenser..." But consider... What'cha gonna do if you want to run VM? Got to have a reflux condenser AND a product condenser! How about a flute? To do duties as a dephlagmator, it needs to be a bit more modest, otherwise, nothing will get past it.

I almost guarantee you'll build another, and probably another!

When I put my big one on top of my column, aesthetically, it was over the top big, so that's when I built baby shottie, #2. She's only 8" tall, but will easily do reflux duties on top of 5500 watts.

The good part, a big, oversized shotgun condenser can ALWAYS find a place in just about any system as the product condenser, even LM, you'll get icy cold product out of it and no escaping vapor.

Looks good!

[Scribbler]

Correction: unless THIS one becomes a dephlegmator, I intend for it to be the last product condenser I ever build!!!

Unless: some sort of new concept demands that I experiment with it!! -I am hoping to never say "this 1212-BFG isn't powerful enough for my next column project"

Someday, I intend to return to the family vineyard out east. My dream is to explore the possibility of starting up a legit boutique brandy distillery in the vein of the plentiful estate wineries in the area. It would be kind of cool if this BFG were big enough to handle a bigger demand like that!!

Beyond fantasy, I really haven't done any research as to scale, feasibility, etc... This is all WAY down the road, possibly even 20 years from now. Making a profit isn't really the point. I figuring if I start putting half my energy into it when I hit 65 yo, I might have something established enough to hand over to my kids by the time I am eighty.

It is kind of my secret dream to die with twenty or thirty barrels of "oh my god" quality brandy aging in my barn cellar!!!

Id rather do this than work like a machine, retire, and move to Florid where I can experience entropy and death!!

[Scribbler]

This is what I am going to make my end caps with. Piece of unrolled 1.5" pipe. Unrolled, tinned, cleaned up.

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Edit: actually, slightly more than just tinned. I built up the solder layer to around 1/16 of an inch.

[BigSwede]

That'll work, but I can't see any reason to tin heavy, maybe I'm missing something. Once tinned, she'll take all the solder you can throw at it and gobble it right up with no issues.

Dephlegmator - my limited understanding is that you need something that can function as a "partial condenser." You return some as reflux, let some go to get condensed as product down stream. If you have a mongo shotgun in there, even with little/no water flow, a lot gets condensed, maybe more than you want. I think the typical deph is maybe 4" to 6" long, 4 tubes, big diameter, and at that scale, when you change water flow, you get SMALLER adjustments to the take-off. Does this make sense?

If/when I do a flute, my planned deph is going to be on the scale I mentioned, or close to it. So that means yet another condenser is in my future.

[googe]

Yeah, a 18" long deflag would take half a day to produce after turning the valve . Yes bigswede, no one wants to wait around for half hour for the still to produce something, gets annoying!. I've done, 100mm 5x 3/4", in 3" on 4" column, works pretty good, still use it. Single 1.25" x 100mm,4" dial on 4" column, worked ok but vapor by passed at high rate. The latest is 80mm 4" dia, 4x1" on a 4 column, works great, very responsive. I don't know if I missed it scribbler, but what columns this going on?.

[Scribbler]

You are right: this is (and likely always will be) just a product condenser.

For now it is going on a pretty short length 2" lyne arm for a potstill. Brandy, ujssm, and maybe ag at some point.

I am daydreaming about a potential 3 plate column and dephleg down the road, but that's at least a year away. Probably won't do more than think about it until I get 5 or 10 gallons of my modified UJ aging on wood.


Re the thick tinning: I'm trying a new method for making the BFG end caps. I noticed when doing my first test piece, the copper tube was incredibly tight. In fact, I had to sand the hell out of it before I could even force it in.

So my plan with this 1/16" solder buildup is that I will use it in conjunction with precisely tinned vapor tubes: gonna tap them into place, then carefully apply my heat until the two pre soldered portions link up and seal.

If this works, it will take days off my build time, as the other method I've been experimenting with involves drywall mud as a sealer and 'under layer' to prevent solder loss through any unexpected gaps. Problem with this is once the gun is all soldered up, cleaning the cured drywall compound from inside the sealed shotgun promises to be a major bitch!!

[BigSwede]

Re the thick tinning: I'm trying a new method for making the BFG end caps. I noticed when doing my first test piece, the copper tube was incredibly tight. In fact, I had to sand the hell out of it before I could even force it in.

Scribbler, look for a tapered reamer called a "repairman's reamer", they are very common and can be found in any decent hardware store. These are awesome to gently open a hole in sheet. Even better, they take an out-of-round hole, which is often what you get with a twist drill, and make her round.

Looks like this:



This is a MUST HAVE tool for copper work!

[Scribbler]

Cool. Will do! I was hoping that my 5/8" unibit (step bit) would make "fit ready" holes... Was surprised at how tight it still was! Something like this will be awesome!! (Just have to make damn sure I don't push it that 'teeny' bit to far... You know, that one last pass that people make right before the kicking, screaming, pissing, and moaning!!)

[Scribbler]

Would you recommend mounting in a drill press and setting it to a specific height? Or just go by feel?

[googe]

Any progress?

[Scribbler]

Not really... -truck driver: only home on weekends and the wife and four children often want to spend time with me... (I know! Sheesh, some people and their priorities!!)

Actually, a bit of backward progress: I decided I wasn't happy with the uniformity of hole placement for caps and baffles. Am trying to come up with a better way of doing it. Maybe printing out several paper templates and using a center punch? Problem is, I have no app for doing precise drawings like that... Up to now, it's all been done on a basic paint program, laid out by eye.

Can anyone recommend an approach? I'd LOVE to be able to just print full scale templates instead of trying to scale everything with ruler, compass , and calculator!! I am no Leonardo da Vinci!!

[BigSwede]

Definitely by hand, it can go oversized, but you'll have full control and with care, it's very easy.

A wringing fit is perfect. Seals better with solder, AND it allows you to manipulate the assembly without stuff shifting.

Best method, drill undersized a bit, say 1/32", then ream.

Now, for layout... There's almost no replacement for a basic CAD program, and there are free basic CAD programs out there. But yes they can be a PITA to learn. If you don't want to go CAD, get thee back to high school with a compass and a protractor. Piece of cake. Lay out three circles, one the outer diameter of the template, next circle is what we call a bolt circle in machining, runs right through all the centers of the outer holes, last one the inner holes.

Draw at least one line through the middle. Get your protractor and mark off whatever degree is between each hole. Dont shift the protractor, instead, add the degrees up, so you'd go 30, 60, 90, etc. otherwise you get cumulative errors.

Once you have ONE perfect drawing, make many copies. Keep the original safe.

Tape to copper, prick punch, then center punch each hole.

Done well, it'll look CNC machined. That layout shouldn't take more than a half hour at most.

[Scribbler]

Doh!!! This is one of those things that upon learning suddenly appears so simple it is embarrassing.

I was with you right up until you said "prick punch" -I've never heard of that before. Going to have to look it up!!!

I actually would like to learn cad... Didn't know their were free ones available.....


Would google sketch-up be precise enough?

[BigSwede]

A prick punch is just a fine, sharp awl, it's used to scribe and also, with hand pressure, create an accurate little crater, that will then accept a true center punch.

Google sketch up? No idea, but if it can work down to thousandth's of an inch, why not?

I started with TurboCad. You can probably pick upa copy for $5 or $10 at most, and it's a VERY nice little 2D program for the money.

Tell ya what, give me the dimensions of the bolt circles and the outer circle, I'll whip up a CAD drawing for you, save it as a JPEG that is 1:1 size-wise. Print her up, you'll be good to go. PM me if you want me to do this, it'll take less than 5 minutes.

Inside each circle will be a little "+" for accurate punching/drilling.

[Scribbler]

Thank you for the kind offer! I'm on the road at the moment and I don't want to use measurements from my memory, as it would really suck to accidentally send you the wrong ones and waste your time! I will be in touch!