Micro Oxygenation, Taboo? Experiences?

[Paul Quinn]

Hey Guys,

New to the forums here but long time lurker. This may have been covered before, if so point me that direction. If not, this may be an interesting topic for some of you.

Having a wine making background, oak alternatives in junction with Micro Oxygenation is basically a staple for most bottles of wine sold under $15 these days, with many in the $15-24 range being treated as well. So say in the case if you wanted to speed of the aging process and maintain a clear alcohol as opposed to aging in charred oak.

Is "moxing" (wine slang) still taboo in distilling? Does anyone have experience with it? Is in less effective due to higher ABV when aging spirits?

If you are unfamiliar with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microoxygenation <<<<<

Cheers!

[Bushman]

Not sure about this method but the industry has had several people that have tried something similar to speed up aging. We also have multiple threads on Ultra Sonic aging on the forum.

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[bearriver]

As far as I know, the only purpose of spirit oxygenation is to oxidize harsh wood compounds to vanillins. If the spirit has not been previously oaked ( or any other wooded), oxygenation would not do a thing for you.

On the other hand, passing enough of any gas through the spirit forces a bit of evaporation, mellowing the spirit by losing the angel's share. The 2 processes are different, although they can be combined (like by letting the spirit sit in a barrel for 12 years).

[Bushman]

As far as I know, the only purpose of spirit oxygenation is to oxidize harsh wood compounds to vanillins. If the spirit has not been previously oaked ( or any other wooded), oxygenation would not do a thing for you.

On the other hand, passing enough of any gas through the spirit forces a bit of evaporation, mellowing the spirit by losing the angel's share. The 2 processes are different, although they can be combined (like by letting the spirit sit in a barrel for 12 years).

ZB and I have met and shared beers he is very knowledgeable and I don't believe their is a great substitute for aging on oak but experiments have shown a speeding up processes. I think a kickstart and then aging on oak might be a good combination. Small craft distillers that need to get to market sooner so they don't spend years in the red are paying more to use small barrels to get more surface area contact thus shortening the years required in aging. Problem is these barrels per product add up to a higher expense thus they need to charge more. There is one guy with a patient to add a stave inside the barrel to create more surface contact.

[Paul Quinn]

You make a good point Bushman, I believe that there is no real substitute for aging in oak for spirits that need it. That being said I am thinking more along the lines of clear fruit brandies, vodka's and smoothing out gin. These spirits do not require aging time, but could aging improve their quality? Would a sped up aging process that does not impart color (like barrels) aid in the quality? These are all hypothetical, as I am not really into vodkas. I do however make Williams Pear brandy and am running a small batch as a test using moxing. I'll share my results upon completion.

[Bushman]

You make a good point Bushman, I believe that there is no real substitute for aging in oak for spirits that need it. That being said I am thinking more along the lines of clear fruit brandies, vodka's and smoothing out gin. These spirits do not require aging time, but could aging improve their quality? Would a sped up aging process that does not impart color (like barrels) aid in the quality? These are all hypothetical, as I am not really into vodkas. I do however make Williams Pear brandy and am running a small batch as a test using moxing. I'll share my results upon completion.

Last month I was in the Netherlands to meet up with Odin and run the iStill, while there we did a distillery tour of Van Wees Distillery. She is a 3rd generation distiller and her main product is Genever (predocessor to Gin). She stores the Genever in oak barrels some over 65 years old and at that age they no longer give it color or flavor but what she is after is the aging process to smooth it out (angels share).

[MDH]

I'm also a believer that to some extent, a very passive vacuum must be produced within the barrel as liquid evaporates, especially during switches in weather (E.g. warm and humid to dry and cool) in barrels that have sufficient headspace. If there are any sources of aroma during peak aging season that are present around the barrel on a consistent basis, that at least some of it must be absorbed into the liquid.

That idea has been greatly debated in Whisky circles because some Scottish distilleries claim that during aging, the "maratime aromas" and such are absorbed within their casks.

[Paul Quinn]

I'm also a believer that to some extent, a very passive vacuum must be produced within the barrel as liquid evaporates, especially during switches in weather (E.g. warm and humid to dry and cool) in barrels that have sufficient headspace. If there are any sources of aroma during peak aging season that are present around the barrel on a consistent basis, that at least some of it must be absorbed into the liquid.

That idea has been greatly debated in Whisky circles because some Scottish distilleries claim that during aging, the "maratime aromas" and such are absorbed within their casks.

There are lots of things that make Scotch unique, but I'm pretty sure any decent distiller could replicate Scotch without "cough" calling it Scotch, since that would be copyright infringement ><

It's romantic to market a type of alcohol based on its naturalism. Water source, weather (humid/warm dry/cool) but companies that make microoxygenation (airstone) units, or fogging units to increase humidity inside cellars wouldn't exist if people weren't using them. Agree?

At some point you got to believe that coalitions of craft distilleries all over the world are going to tell you their style cannot be replicated. If they told you otherwise they would lose business.

I appreciate all the opinions so far!

[MDH]

I don't disagree that even some of the most hardened "biodynamic/natural" winemakers and whatnot will still control the conditions of their ferments or storage, but in my example I actually have to agree somewhat with the hullabaloo marketing.

I had for a while an amassed collection of miniature liquor bottles which were stored in an antique cabinet. Because this cabinet also housed medical supplies, it had a very strong and pungent sort of wood-and-hospital type aroma. I was dismayed to discover that each one of the insides of the bottles had its smell and taste completely masked by it.