Airlock or not

[firefly]

I just prepared my 1st sugar wash and after doing a lot of reading...
and searching ....I found that some people say to airlock right away...and some say wait 1-2 days.....

Is it a question of personal preference?? just wondering....

[Uncle Jesse]

did you add yeast? if so, airlock it. if you want to leave it open for natural yeast, wait a few days.

[firefly]

I use the Turbo 48, so I airlocked it right away....this is the correct method??

Thank you Uncle Jesse...

[shadylane]

A nice thing about airlocks and good hygiene is that you can reuse your spent mash "That ugly white stuff in the bottom of the bucket" a couple of times, if you wish. Just a hint, don't try to max out your yeast with to much sugar. Two pounds sugar per galloon of mash is about right. It will ferment out quicker and settle to the bottom of the bucket so you can rack it like wine, before you pour it in the still. Clear, clean mash makes the best shine.

[firefly]

well...as for me...I used 8kg of sugar for 25 litres of water....
That's what was written on the Turbo yeast package.....Airlock is still active since Monday....
Hope it will be ready for Sunday....

[Husker]

well...as for me...I used 8kg of sugar for 25 litres of water....
That's what was written on the Turbo yeast package.....Airlock is still active since Monday....
Hope it will be ready for Sunday....

I think I will add this to the FAQ.

Using a turbo in it's MAX is not recommended. It will take a long time to ferment out, is likely to stick, and is VERY likely to have a whole LOT of terrible heads and tails. There is a great chance that there are so much heads and tails, that your actual usable end product will be less, than if you tried to produce a 12% to 14% ABV wash from the start.

H.

[firefly]

ahhhhhhhh ....why don't they write this on the package!!!!

So you dont think it will be good...... ....


Well to console myself....we used to make brandy from old wine in a modified pressure cooker (kinda like a pot still) and we never paid attention to the temperatures.....so we collected whatever came out 1st ...up untill the end... ...no filtering.....just add some fruit...put it in the freezer and voila.......
So im hoping...that this will surely taste better than what we've made before...

[Husker]

hehe. You will have to let us know about the quality when you get it done.

The nice thing (well one of the many nice things) about this hobby, is that you can take your time, and actually produce a spirit that is MUCH better than you can buy. Several of the recipes listed on the home site and the forums (and some linked in the FAQ), will produce a VERY fine drink.

The turbos are pushed hard by the brew shops for several reasons.

1. They cost A LOT (i.e. good profits).
2. They do work. You may not get the best results, but it will produce ethanol.
3. They are pretty hard to screw up. There is SO much yeast and nutrients that unless you really over heat, or get the wash dirty, it will turn out (with something).

4. They are sold to people who dont know much better (not their fault, anyone starting out in a hobby has a learning curve). I know there are people who have been doing turbos for a long time. However, the majority of people using them are pretty new to the hobby.

Thus, with new people, even if the resultant product is not too good, these new people will not know any different, or will figure they are no good at it an go do something else. Now if the brewshop also sold them the fermenter buckets, and a still, then there is no loss on the ferment shop, they got their $$$. However, the people on these forums are not out for your $$$, so we will try to give you free advice, without having any vested interest in you shopping with us. Most of the members here will direct you away from turbo washes, after you get your feet wet with a wash or 2.

H.

[firefly]

Thanks Husker.....

so Turbos are not recommended.....
can you suggest something.....I just wanna make some neutral Vodka and
we will maybe add some essence when the time comes...
The places i've looked at, seem to sell only the turbo yeasts.....

[Husker]

Thanks Husker.....

so Turbos are not recommended.....
can you suggest something.....I just wanna make some neutral Vodka and
we will maybe add some essence when the time comes...
The places i've looked at, seem to sell only the turbo yeasts.....

You will not go wrong, using lavin's EC1118 yeast (a champaign yeast). Look at birdwatchers sugar recipe (linked in the faq, but found in the "tried and true" recipes). That recipe will produce much better than a simple sugar/turbo wash. It will be much cleaner in flavor.

The yeasts I have used with success are:

1. EC1118
2. Lavins K1V1116 (nice wine yeast)
3. Distillers yeast (some have AG added, and if you are doing something like UJSM, it will help convert a little of the corn).
4. Turbos (they do work, but are not the best by far).

H.

[firefly]

....my excitement is slowly going away.....and I just ordered some more
turbo yeast....

Where can I purchase these types of yeast.....in a simple beer making supply shop.....The websites I just checked don't have any.....





P.S: if I use 1 of the above yeasts to make a sugar wash....will I have to add other stuff like nutrients or just the yeast and sugar??

[Husker]

many wine shops should have those yeasts (probably not the distillers yeast however).

If all else fails, you might try brewhaus or milehigh distilling or some of the other internet sites. They should have some better yeast (other than turbos). But keep in mind, that if using these yeasts, you WILL have to put more into your wash than simple sugar. Yeast needs nutrients also.

I would suggest going to the parent site (http://homedistiller.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow), and reading everything under the "preparing the wash" subject.

H.

[shadylane]

Turbo yeast works GREAT. It has plenty of nutriants and just the right amount of PH. BUT it will ferment out quicker and make a better taisting shine if you don't use as much sugar as they call for.

[firefly]

I got all my stuff at brewhaus.....but all I seem to see is the Turbo yeasts....
Ill try to contact then and see if they have any....

So shady...the turbos have been good to you?? ....what did you make??


P.S: I've been reading the parent site over and over and I also got the books: Making Gin and Vodka, The Compleat Distiller, Distiller's Workbook,
Activated Carbon, Artisan Distilling, a couple items from ebay that are useless!!! and im still full of questions.....

[Husker]

This is a pretty good yeast from brewhaus:

http://www.brewhaus.com/Whisky_Yeast_wi ... 001090.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

It is distillers yeast (with AG). They also have a vodka yeast with AG, which I have not used, but I bet it produces a cleaner wash. If you are doing neutrals, then the vodka yeast with AG will probably be better for you than the whiskey distillers yeast.

You can do a google on "lavin ec1118 yeast" and come up with 100's of hits.

I have ordered from these guys before, and the yeast was fine.
http://homebrewheaven.com/lalvin-ec-111 ... -yeast.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

My local brewshop sells (and stocks) the yeast for $.75, so that is where I get it at now.

NOTE that I usually run an ongoing mash/wash. Thus, I simply get my yeast going, and from that point on, until I quit a product, I do not buy any more yeast, but simply rack the wash off the yeast lees, and start up a new wash right away. The yeast colony is huge, and very active. It will fire up quickly, as soon as it gets more sugar to eat. Thus, with a couple satchets of yeast, I might get 10-12 runs out of it. The UJSM method does this very well.

H.

[firefly]

Husker....thanks for the link....
I had asked Rick about the vodka yeast and he said:

The Vodka Yeast, while able to ferment a straight sugar wash, is geared more for a wheat mash fermentation.

The Vodka Yeast also has the addition of AG to break down dextrins in the grain, which is not necessary in a sugar wash. Ultimately, for a sugar wash I would suggest the Turbo Pure 48.


So...being an apprentice....I listen to you guys and do what you suggest....
so i'll go ahead and order some of that yeast and compare it to my turbo that I will distill Sunday....

..

[Husker]

For a straight sugar wash, the AG will do nothing. It is an enzime that breaks down starch into sugar. For a sugar wash, there is nothing for the AG to do.

Like others have said, turbos "can" be used. If you only use 5kg of sugar and add that to 22L, you will have about 25L of volumn, and it will produce about 12%. The turbo will do OK with this amount, and one HUGE benefit is that it will fully ferment quickly (possibly in 2-3 days). If you produce a wash like this, the turbos will give a somewhat clean wash. The bad taste/smell in the turbos really kicks in when you run an ultra high gravity wash. However, keeping it down to 12-13%, and running it through a good column, and you will end up with a neutral.

H.

[wineo]

I have 2 packs of the vodka yeast,but havent used it yet.I was thinking of using it on some wheat,or potatos to see what kind of flavors I get.I wont bother using it on plain sugar because I know I can do better with wine yeast.

[firefly]

Thanks Husker,

I think my next wash will be 6kg sugar for 25 litres of water....
and I will order some of that whiskey yeast and compare the 2......


I see I still have lots to learn....thank god for you guys.....

[Husker]

Thanks Husker,

I think my next wash will be 6kg sugar for 25 litres of water....
and I will order some of that whiskey yeast and compare the 2......

I see I still have lots to learn....thank god for you guys.....

If you get the whiskey yeast, I would highly recommend trying the UJSM (Uncle Jesses simple Sour Mash) Look on the tried/true recipe section. It is a sticky there. For a simple sugar recipe with corn flavor, it is simply a FINE recipe. The AG will certainly add to your first (and possibly 2nd) generation, and use a lot more of the corn. This should make for a more flavorful end product.

H.

[HookLine]

Ahh, the ol' Turbo discussion again. I guess the newcomer section is the best place for it.

Like Husker said, you can improve the taste of Turbos quite a lot by simply using less sugar.

Alternatively, you can make it a larger volume ferment and use the full amount of sugar as the Turbo instruction say. In other words, dilute it, or 'stretch' it. That way you end up a lower % alcohol wash, but still get the same amount of ethanol out of it, and it is a lot cleaner. I have run 25 litre Turbos in 40 litres, and the result was pretty clean, especially after letting it age for a couple of weeks.

The rule of thumb is don't let your wash go above 12% alcohol, and 10% is even better. I run at 10%.

Turbos also cost too much, $7 in my area. I can easily rustle up yeast and nutrients from the local supermarket for about 1/3 that.

[firefly]

so does 6kg for 25 litres sound good.....or should I put less....
I still have 3 packs of the Turbo 48.....would be a shame not to use them... ....I paid 4.50$ for mine....

I only have a 30 litre fermenter....

[Husker]

so does 6kg for 25 litres sound good.....or should I put less....
I still have 3 packs of the Turbo 48.....would be a shame not to use them... ....I paid 4.50$ for mine....

I only have a 30 litre fermenter....

It depends on if you are talking about 25L of water, or 25L of wash. Sugar takes up space, so that subtle distinction will make a significant difference.

Go to the parent site (under preparing wash section). There is a page on mixing sugar and water.

http://homedistiller.org/sugar/wash-sugar/sg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

This calculator will show expected ABV (and volumes).

So, if you want 25L of wash / 6kg of sugar, enter them and see:

14.1%, needing 21.3L of water (remember that sugar takes up space).

However, if you were going to use 25L of water, then enter 6kg sugar and 28.7L total volume. Notice that water goes to 25L, and the ABV listed is 12.3%

I find 12.3% fine to shoot for. However, like Hook mentioned, you could use 8kg of sugar, and 33L of water. This will build a mash of 38L or so, and get you to 12.4% ABV, which the turbo will make just fine.

The flavor of that will be "better" by far than dumping 8kg into your fermenter, and filling it with 20L or so of water which pushes it up to 18.8% ABV. Like hook said, you will get the same amount of raw EtOH out of your mash, but the concentration will be less (12.4% vs 18.8%), but your big "gain" is that you will have FAR LESS offal in the mash. You might (should) actually end up with more drinkable product doing this 40L mash, than doing a 25L mash with the same amount of sugar, and the single satchet of turbo yeast.

Ahh, the ol' Turbo discussion again.

Yup. Look over section 4a in the FAQ. I just added it this morning. Reply to the FAQ-followup if it needs "adjusting". I am hoping we can point people to the FAQ when these turbo questions arise. Adding the "extend" 8kg into 40L method might be a good addition to 4a, as then you dont "cheat" yourself on that expensive yeast

H.

[HookLine]

Ahh, the ol' Turbo discussion again.

Yup. Look over section 4a in the FAQ. I just added it this morning. Reply to the FAQ-followup if it needs "adjusting". I am hoping we can point people to the FAQ when these turbo questions arise. Adding the "extend" 8kg into 40L method might be a good addition to 4a, as then you dont "cheat" yourself on that expensive yeast

H.

Will check it out later. Got to go do some other stuff for a while.

Cheers

[wineo]

I have a friend that also distills,and he still had 2 packs of turbo 48 left,and wanted to use them up,so I told him what I did with my last turbo.
He used 10 pounds of sugar per 6 gallon carboy,and made up 2 carboys of sugar wash,and used half a pack of turbo 48 for each carboy.This made 12 gallons of 12% wash,and he potstilled it.It was twice as clean as the 18% wash using a whole pack of turbo.I did the same thing with mine but added a jar of molassus to make a lite rum.They took 7-10 days to finish.
I dont use turbos anymore because I can make a cleaner wash with wine yeast and the right neutrents.The reason that the turbos have alot of off flavors is that they have too much neutrents in them,and fermenting to 18%causes more off flavors.
Once you taste the difference,you will never go back.
That Whiskey distillers yeast with AG is fantastic for UJSM.I ran 8 generations of it early this year,and it made some really fine whiskey.
Better than woodford reserve.

[byacey]

I ferment apples and water in a 40 gallon barrel. I typically add about 88 pounds of sugar for this volume and use about 6 packages of EC-1118 yeast to get it working. I start fermentation around the beginning of September and I find fermentation slows down around the end of November. I find it interesting that some people complete fermentation after a week or so, it must be violently fermenting.

[bronzdragon]

I always airlock as soon as I pitch the yeast to prevent infection.

~r~

[shadylane]

[quote="firefly"]I got all my stuff at brewhaus.....but all I seem to see is the Turbo yeasts....
Ill try to contact then and see if they have any....

So shady...the turbos have been good to you?? :D ....what did you make??


P.S: I've been reading the parent site over and over and I also got the books: Making Gin and Vodka, The Compleat Distiller, Distiller's Workbook,
Activated Carbon, Artisan Distilling, a couple items from ebay that are useless!!! and im still full of questions..... :D[/quote]

I should rephrase my comment. I used turbo once and it hung because I used even more sugar and the temp was too low. After adding more water and raiseing the temp it worked great.

[firefly]

ok...thanks shady...

[Mopar Redneck]

If you have a beer and wine making supply store nearby stop in and talk to the owner. They can order any yeast you want. I lucked out and have one very close to me who owes me big time (saved him tens of thousands of dollars a while back). He had afew good suggestions regarding equipment, and will order any supplies I need at cost