1st Run Results....

[firefly]

Using the PS II from Brewhaus with propane burner
Did a simple sugar wash.....25 litres

So I started at 9:00 am Sunday morning....and here I am...9:30 pm.....alone in my garage...and im still distilling!!
I've collected almost 3 litres of 90% alcohol....in 12 hours!!!

Just wondering if that seems right?? The Temp is steady at 78-79 degrees
and it's been 12 hours now.....Im just about ready to shut everything down for the night....

Also.....does it make a difference if I raise the heat.(flame)..and adjust with a faster water flow.....
or should I keep a lower heat (flame) and lower the water flow.....

Will raising the heat and water flow (while keeping at 78 degrees) speed things up???

...

[bronzdragon]

12 hours is common for me on the same unit. I use an electric hotplate though. I bought the splitter, that controls cooling water to the condenser and the head ... and by adjusting the cooling water to the head a bit you can get a little faster drip.

You may sacrifice some alc % for a faster run though.

Over all it is better to adjust the flow rate by adjusting your cooling water, rather then messing with the heat. Once you have your column in reflux, I wouldn't mess with the heat.

I have also been searching for a way to make this unit perform faster.

Possibly next time, start out with a bit higher heat.

I've also noticed as the run time goes over 12 hours, the backset starts to smell different because it's been cooking for so long.

I don't do much neutral though, I have been using the same unit in pot mode making rum and whiskey with good results and the stripping runs (with the cooling line splitter) only take about 6 hours.

cheers
~r~

[firefly]

Thanks for the reply bronzdragon,
I also have the splitter....I started off with a pretty high heat and it took about 90 minutes for the heat to reach 78 degrees....then I lowered it and did a few adjustments with the water flow to keep it stable....
It's just that now.....12 hours later....im somewhat tired....and seeing I keep the garage door open a little....im freezing
But the moonshine is still coming out at a steady pace....and the heat is still stable....

Wish I could simply speed it up a bit , but if im in the norm,,,well then I can't complain.......cheers



..

[Husker]

Next time, you might try to strip 3 or 4 batches, saving the low wines produced. you will probably end up with 12 to 15L of 70% or so (assuming 12 to 14% wash). Water that down to 40% ABV, and re-run. You will have better results, and can probably run a lot faster on the output, without sacrificing your output purity. Then if you get bored after you pull out a gallon and a half (or 2 gallons), you can simply shut things down, and whatever is left over in the boiler, simply dump in with your next finished wash to strip. You should be able to strip a 25L wash in several hours, IF your condenser can keep up (which I think is a shortcoming on the PSII), and if you can shut off the water to the column, which I think you can. Then on the spirit run, I think you could get a 1 L per hour or more, (thus 6-7L in 8 hours). These are somewhat guesses, as I have not run an internal reflux, like the PSII, but I have seen results like this with my offset.

I find that the time it takes (actual at the still time), to strip 3 runs, then do a single spirit run, is less than what is needed for 3 separate single runs from mash, and the results are better (I think far better).

H.

[modul8]

HI Husker

Can I ask the reason for diluting low wines down to 40%? I have heard mention before with fors and againsts but no real info. I'm just curious what the advantages would be.

Thanks

[HookLine]

Harry has written an excellent explanation over here:

http://distillers.tastylime.net/library/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[modul8]

Thanks Hookline,
I thought I had read everything on that site, but obviously not....
A good read.
Cheers

[firefly]

Husker....was not too familiar with stripping so after searching.....does this sound correct...

I need to use my PS II as a pot still.....some say to leave some packing so not too sure about this part...

I didn't see anyone mention anything about cooling...so im guessing I wont need the water control system...

Do I just heat the wash and keep collecting until I reach 94-97% degrees..
the heat will constantly rise without any cooling....

After the 1st stripping....my 25 liter should be down to 12-15 liters....
Cant I simply do a 2nd wash and collect another 12-15 liters and then mix the
2 washes and do a full reflux??

.

[Husker]

First NOTE, I do not have an internal reflux (nor have I used one).

If you can insulate your column, then the packing will not matter all that much (some, but not too much).

A big must is to be able to turn OFF the cooling to the column. You do not want to "cause" reflux within the column.

In simple mode, just heat the boiler, run the condenser water (probably running that water pretty hard as the condenser is small), and just keep running, until the temp gets close to 100°C (98.5 or so). That will remove all (most) of the ethanol from that batch. You should collect EVERYTHING that comes out (however, taking out a small foreshot cut would be OK also). One thing, is to NOT try to run "slow". Simply run as fast as your condenser will handle, without leaking vapor. You should be able to strip out the ethanol in an hour or two after boiling starts, if the condenser can keep up.

What you are doing, is to remove all of the solids, and concentrate what you do want, without spending too much time (or energy) worrying about getting it right. When you do the final spirit run, THEN you spend your time making sure things are running as efficiently as the still possibly can.

Some things you will find, is that you will be able to make your cuts MUCH better on this 2nd run, than on a single mash to spirit run. Also, once you get the yeast out of the way, you can add baking soda (or sodium carbonate) to the low wines. This also will help to make a cleaner cut from heads to body, and reduce the size of heads.

>After the 1st stripping....my 25 liter should be down to 12-15 liters....

I bet with your column (even without cooling it), you will strip 25L of 13% down to 5L of 65%. Thus 3 runs of this will get you 15L of 65%. Water that down to 25L and you will have 25L of about 40% which is a good level of ABV for your spirit run.

If your washes are stronger than 13%, then you might not be able to get a full 3 stripping runs packed into a single spirit run. However, if you are going much over 13%, then you should read the many posts done by other forum members doing sugar washes. It is usually recommenced not to push your wash much higher than this (12 to 13%). You "can" get your wash to go higher, however, the quality of the wash will start to degrade, and the time needed to ferment can be much longer.

H.

Husker....was not too familiar with stripping so after searching.....does this sound correct...

I need to use my PS II as a pot still.....some say to leave some packing so not too sure about this part...

I didn't see anyone mention anything about cooling...so im guessing I wont need the water control system...

Do I just heat the wash and keep collecting until I reach 94-97% degrees..
the heat will constantly rise without any cooling....

After the 1st stripping....my 25 liter should be down to 12-15 liters....
Cant I simply do a 2nd wash and collect another 12-15 liters and then mix the
2 washes and do a full reflux??

.

[firefly]

Husker, once again...thanks for the detailed explanation....much appreciated..

last question ...excuse my ignorance...

Are you saying to do 3 runs with my single 25 liter wash??Is this what you mean.....
1st run....25 liters...I collect 5l of 65%
Im left with 20L of the original wash...
Do a 2nd run and collect 5L out of the 20....
Now left with 15L and run again thus collecting a total of 15L out of the whole 25....correct??


If im correct....does one normally do the 3 runs all in the same day??
Can I finish the 1st run....shut down.....wait a little and fire it back up??


P.S: when you say water it down to 40%...I can use tap water correct??

[Husker]

Are you saying to do 3 runs with my single 25 liter wash??Is this what you mean.....

no, I am recommending doing a single run on 3 separate 25L washes, then combining those 3 outputs.

1st run....25 liters...I collect 5l of 65%
Im left with 20L of the original wash...

No, since this is a sugar wash, you have 5L of low wines, and 20L of waste by product. If you were doing a sour mash, some of that 20L would be put into your next fermentation batch (the sour mashing process). However, for a sugar wash, there is not much of value in this left over, and is usually dumped.

If im correct....does one normally do the 3 runs all in the same day??
Can I finish the 1st run....shut down.....wait a little and fire it back up??

P.S: when you say water it down to 40%...I can use tap water correct??

You are not correct. Your next strip run, would be done after your next fermentation is done. Remember, that 5L contains ALL of what you wanted to collect from your ferment (condensed down from 25L to 5L). Note it is not pure like a spirit run. It contains a LOT of stuff you do NOT want. But then you do 2 more fermentations, and strip them in the same way.

NOW you have the "real" material from 3 complete fermentations. Now you combine those 3 outputs into a single spirit run.

What you end up with will be the same (or actually slightly more) finished product as you would get from 3 separate runs. However, it will not cost you 3 full days of running to get that product. The final spirit run will take some time, however, it should be similar to the time spent on a mash to spirit run, since you should be able to take the output off quicker, while still maintaining the column equalibrium.

H.

PS, tap water should be fine.

[firefly]

Thank you Husker..... ......

Sounds like a better plan....dont wanna do another 12-15 hour run in my garage freezing...


After 3 runs....the final spirit run will surely take less than my 12-15 hours....
the 1st time I did it......sounds good to me.....


Thanks again Husker....I'll send you a bottle of my finished booze...

[Husker]

After 3 runs....the final spirit run will surely take less than my 12-15 hours....
the 1st time I did it......sounds good to me.....

Like I said, I have not run an internal reflux still before, so I do not know exactly what to expect. It may well still take you 12-15 hours for this final run. However, you do one of those, vs 3 of them is you go from mash to final product. And like I said in an earlier reply, you could simply pull off the heads, then collect 5 or 6 L of 90-93% then simply shut down. What would be left in the boiler at THAT point would be about the strength of a wash, so simply on a later date, strip this down to 4L or so (like you would do a wash). Those 5-6L of 90% would be a large majority of your "good" product. However, if you do shut down early on your spirit run, what is left in the boiler is NOT waste (like it was after you stripped your mash). There would still be quite a bit of ethanol left (and you can add the heads you collected off of your spirit run to that also).

You should look at the mini-FAQ, and the sticky post in this forum about running a fractionating still. It is not "exactly" like your internal reflux, but should be close. I would be interested in hearing if there are any steps listed in the "fractionating running instruction" thread that are in conflict in relataton to internal reflux stills.

Thanks again Husker....I'll send you a bottle of my finished booze...

I will remember this

H.

[firefly]

Husker.....I will have a look at the faq again...

Husker...dont know where you are on this great big planet....but if you were in my part of town.....i'd tell you to come over and taste my booze from last night....

I mixed it with the Bombay Gin essence and having 1 right now....not bad...but I think the original is better...

I dont think canadapost would let me ship some booze....


P.S: All this time I was wondering what kind of still I had....fractionating or reflux...... .....now I know.....

[Husker]

I am south of you, and I think the US post man also has a thing against sending booze through the mail system.

Your still is an internal reflux still. A fractionating still is also a reflux still, but it is quite a bit different than your. In a fractionating still, the condensation happens totally outside of the column. Then a fraction (usually large fraction) is added back into the column at the top and a fraction is taken off as final output. Thus, a fractionating still is a reflux still, where you have a much greater precision of reflux rate (giving you higher possible ABV and purity). The only thing your still has to control reflux, is the amount of water and the water's temp going through the tubes cut into your column (and I guess, how much power you are pumping into the boiler). However, when you turn off the water to the column, the reflux should be minimal, and you are running more or less in a pot still mode.

Examples of fractionating stills are the offset head, and the bokabob inline.

H.

[firefly]

......

[bronzdragon]

This is what I do with the PS2. I do stripping runs, usually over 3 batches. I collect a gallon of low wines (from a 5 gallon wash) each time using the shortened pot column. these average 50-60% depending on how fast you run them off. I run the cooling water to the condenser only and keep the cooling water turned off in the head.

The stripping runs usually last 8 hours once the still is up to temperature.

When I have the 3 batches of low wines ready, I figure out the % and water down to about 40%. This is because I like to err on the side of caution, and with the water there I know I won't boil the pot dry.

When I make my spirit run, I do it on a day where I have a lot of time. I put the full column in with no packing. I then do a careful run and it takes about 10-12 hours. My final run doing this averages 160-170 proof.

I am very satisfied with the quality of the drinks made this way (for me it's usually rum or bourbon.)

cheers

~r~

[Husker]

The stripping runs usually last 8 hours once the still is up to temperature.

wow, that seems slow. Is that due to having to run that slow so the condenser can keep up? A gallon of distillate in 8 hours (plus heatup time) seems like it is crawling very slow. I would think you should be able to easily pull a gallon of 60% in 2 hours or so.

H.

[bronzdragon]

I am using the 1100W hotplate, and I feel that this is my problem. I think that maybe the hotplate is undersized Wattage wise to run the still full out.

I don't think that the condenser is having a problem knocking down the vapor, because it remains cool all the time.

I'm strongly thinking about doing a keg conversion project with internal water heater elements and using the column and condenser from this unit.

The only other option is getting the 1500W hotplate (which would end up costing about as much as the keg conversion, since I already have a keg and a stainless welder I know who will do the welding for a case of beer.)

The cooling water splitter has sped the stripping runs up. Without the splitter, stripping runs were not really possible .. everything was done in with cooling going through the head.

cheers

~r~

[tracker0945]

I would seriously look at increasing your heat input and more than 1500w too.
I am using a gas burner equivilent to 1350W and for a fast and dirty stripping run it takes me 2hrs 20min to distill 12litres of 8.5% wash through a 2" Bok mini in pot still mode (including heat up). I reduce that to 2.95 litres in that time at 30% average abv by collecting everything down to about 10%.
I am looking at a larger burner so I can use a bigger pot as by using the same burner it would take me over 5 hours for a 20 litre wash or 6hrs 20 min for a 24 litre wash collecting to the same standard.
TOO SLOW FOR ME.

[bronzdragon]

I agree. The problem is that gas is not an option for me. I've been trying to figure out how to up my heat input. The 1500W hotplate (which I still don't know if it will be the cure) or the keg conversion with hot water heater elements ... are my only options thus far.

~r~

[tracker0945]

Internal elements will give you a better conversion rate than hot plates because if you insulate your boiler well you will not get the heat loss as you will with hot plates

[bronzdragon]

I thought that the internals would be a better option but I just thought I'd throw that out there to see if anyone had something to say about that set up, pro or con.

~r~

[Rudi]

I already have a keg and a stainless welder I know who will do the welding for a case of beer.

cheers

~r~

Go the keg with one big element and some sort of controller or two one or both for stripping and t'other for spirit runs/reflux and insulate your boiler you wont regret it.

[tracker0945]

Go with it.
Gas burners are my preferred because of the minute adjustments that you can make but if this is not an option for you then I believe that internal is your next best option.

[HookLine]

Gas burners are my preferred because of the minute adjustments that you can make

You can do the same with electric heating. It is also very consistent, isn't subject to interference from breezes, and is far less fire hazard than gas.

But I agree that either way works well, if used properly.

[Husker]

I agree. The problem is that gas is not an option for me. I've been trying to figure out how to up my heat input. The 1500W hotplate (which I still don't know if it will be the cure) or the keg conversion with hot water heater elements ... are my only options thus far.

~r~

Option #2, unsulate. You lose a LOT of watts to heat loss. Not only insulate your column, but insulate your boiler. That may make enough difference that your 1100W plate works better. Heck, my easy still is only 575W, and it strips at a rate of a gallon in about 4 hours (minus the heatup time). That tells me you are losing a LARGE percentage of your watts.

H.

[bronzdragon]

I guess I forgot to add that my column and top part of my pot are insulated. I did notice a difference when I initially insulated...but nothing big.

~r~

[Cletus]

My 1st attempt worked pretty decent - running a homemade internal reflux unit (damn that copper was expensive!) on a 12 gallon water heater with top element removed & plugged, and lower element running at full power - I bypassed thermostat. Next project is building pintoshine's variable control for the heating element----
Used a plain sugar / turbo yeast wash & played around with it just to see how different settings of reflux effected column temp, etc.
Collected about 2 gallons of 75 ABV from 13 gallons of wash, it's a little harsh, but I plan on re-running it anyway with my next batch of sugar wash.
Got me a 50 # bag of cracked corn @ the feed store, next attempt will be UJSM recipe... see if I can run this thing in "pot still" mode.
Thanks all for the great info found on this site, I have been lurking for 8-9 months now.
- Cletus

[tracker0945]

Welcome aboard Cletus, nothing wrong with lurking, matter of fact you probably picked up a lot of valuable knowledge.