Anyone used the (shake) method for proof?

[nv_hunter]

I was watching a show on history channel about moonshineing in the old days. One of the old timers said he could check proof by shakeing a mason jar that was 3/4 full of hooch. he said he watched the bead of air on the surface of the liquid after he shook it hard. If the bead disapeared right away it is 180 proof or better. The longer the air hung around equaled lower proof. I tried this last night and it works great.

[nv_hunter]

Corection!! 180 ABV not proof.

[Husker]

The bubble method can be used. It is frequently seen due to the fact that this is a "field test" which requires no additional equipment.

However, it is not as accurate as you think, and is probably not going to be very accurate at all for someone who has not been using it for years.

There are several field tests such as this. Old moonshiner will toss a spoon full into the fire, seeing if it flames up, and what color. That is used as a quick check for the run being done. The old moonshiner will also smell, taste and feel the output (yes, feel as in rub it around in the palm and between two fingers). As the distillation proceeds, the output will smell different, will taste different, and will have a different feel (quicker evaporation in the hand cooling off faster, slipperier, oilier, etc).

All of these tests are valid, and do work. I use the taste / smell / feel method myself. The nice thing about tests like this, is they "can" be close enough with experience and for the need. The need for many of these techniques is to determine close enough for someone who is actually "in the field" running the still, to do without having to spend any money on additional tools.

However, you will be better off (especially in the beginning) getting yourself an alcoholometer (hydrometer designed for straight EtOH and H20 which comes out of the still), and a decent thermometer (or a couple of them. The first thermometer can be used at the top of the vapor path. This measures the vapor temp which is used to know the percentage of ethanol in the vapor. The second thermometer and the alcoholometer are used to determine the proof of the alcohol. You can use them to determine the proof that is currently coming out of the still (i.e. collect into a small container and measure), and can also be used to determine what the "final" ABV is of the resultant product which you have distilled (i.e. all of the body).

H.

PS, the 180 was proof. 180 ABV would be 180% ethanol, and you can not get above 100% of anything. Proof (in the US at least) goes from 0 to 200, while ABV (everywhere), goes from 0% to 100%

[nv_hunter]

I stand corected. As for the shake method. I thought it was interesting and more of a novalty than anything else. It ill be interesting to see how close it is. My hydrometer will be here today!

[Uncle Jesse]

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... torder=asc

[Woody_Woodchuck]

I always used the spoon and hand method for my P&P (proof and purity) testing. The fella in Jessie’s post above said perfectly the process, I’ll just elaborate some with personal experience. These observations are from a traditional style copper pot still. I don’t know nothing about these new fangled reflux or column dohickies. I ran straight corn whiskey or made brandy out of extra wine or experimented with just about anything that we could get to ferment. I guess the most important point is we are doing this to gather up some fine tasting home squeezins. We ain’t doing this to make a fast buck or pass out crap... at least I hope we are all on the same page here. So use your own judgment, remember YOU are going to drink this.

Alright then, my testing uses 10 drops on a stainless steel spoon, right from the business end so it’s fresh as can be. I tried the shaking but wanted a more intimate feeling for what was coming out the pipe. Never did get the hang of shaking but it always looked good when done in front of folks and you told them what you already knew was in the bottle.

Take a look at it. Is it clear as spring water? A touch cloudy? Does it have a slight blue tint to it? If you’re not sure put a couple drops on a white piece of paper, junk mail does have a purpose other than compost. Anything other than the clearest liquid I’d turn the heat up, make a fast run, cut it off at a high proof and dump it in the truck. You don’t want to drink nothing that ain’t of the highest caliber. If it’s blue the still weren’t aged yet or cleaned too roughly. You’ll have to wait until another run to do some tasting. If it’s cloudy, don’t fill the pot up so far next time or burn it so hot. Slow, low and easy... we ain’t in no rush and if you rush it the end product will suffer. It takes time to make a good drink. It took a week or two to brew up a fine mash, you ain’t gona draw off the true essence in an hour or two that’s for sure. Yeah you’ll get alcohol but you won’t get good whiskey. I just feel bad for them folks that don’t take pride in what they turn out is all. Takin’ a perfectly good mash and turning it into something that is only fit to strip paint makes me want to cry. Gettin’ off my soap box now, sorry.

Smell it. Does it smell just as delicious as anything you can think of? Does it smell kind of nasty, even just a mite? Can you recognize the off smell if there is one? If it don’t smell like something you would want to drink, turn the heat up, make a fast run, cut it off at a high proof and dump it in the truck. Who wants to sip on something that don’t smell good?

Sip it into your mouth. Does it evaporate before you get a chance to taste it? Does a little bit roll on your tongue and manage a drop down your throat? If it disappears before you taste it, that’s early in the run and you got some straight quill rolling out. If you can taste it, that’s about in the middle, savor the flavor cause that’s what the raw whiskey will taste like. When you start getting some to your throat, it’s near the end so keep a close eye out and use the burn spoon more frequently.

Grab the burnin’ spoon and gather up another 10 drops. Light a match, let it flare and burn for a couple seconds to get rid of the initial sulpher and stuff. I guess you could use a lighter but it ain’t as much fun as building a log cabin out of used match sticks. Touch it to the edge of the spoon. A clean, clear burn so’s you can’t tell its burning is a good sign. Let it burn until it goes out. Is there anything left on the spoon? If there ain’t, that’s a good thing and you got some high proof juice dripping out. If there is a lot of yellow in the flame (the beard) dump it, clean the spoon and try again. Something just might have gotten into it. If you get the beard again… turn the heat up, make a fast run, cut it off at a high proof and dump it in the truck. That’s some stuff you don’t want to drink. Now, as you go along there will be more and more residue left on the spoon. Don’t fret, this is alright and expected. When it gets to the point of not lighting, lift the jug, put another under the end and shut her down, your finished.

In between the spoon tests, stick a finger under the dripping, letting a couple drops flow onto it. If you’ve been eating a sandwich or picking your nose, I’d recommend at least cleaning your hands before doing this. Roll it around a bit between fingers, if need be grab a couple more drops. How does it feel? Like nothing and just cool? Silky smooth? Rough like a bastard? If it dries out your finger and you just feel skin, keep her fired and rolling along. If it slickens up your fingers do a burn test and see if you got the beard. Did you clean good before the run? Did you wash your hands good? If so there’s some stuff coming out that you really ain’t interested in. If it feels gritty, do the burn, smell and give it a good look. There’s crap getting into it from somewhere! As you’re rolling it between your fingers move your hand close, to smell it. Is it just the best thing you ever smelled? That’s a good sign. Does it kinda smell off or crappy? That’s a bad sign… turn the heat up…

As pointed out it’ll take runs doing this before you actually know what the stages are and how each test goes together. You’ll also eventually be able to tell the end product as you’re making the run. You might cut off early or let it run a bit late, depending on how the signs are looking. Before you know it you’ll just be doing the sip & smell tests with burning only at the beginning and when it’s near the end. Doubling? That’s a whooole other story.

[Uncle Jesse]

good advice.

another thing I like to do is put some emerging distillate in the palm of my hand then "clap" my hands fast and hard. this opens up the nose very fast and smelling your palms will give you a pretty good bouquet to determine if your run is off or not.

[bronzdragon]

I haven't been doing this near as long as you guys ... but I think that I rely a lot on my nose. If it smells bad, it usually doesn't taste good.

~r~

[Woody_Woodchuck]

Never tried clapping as a check, something to give a try. Most noise I ever made in front of a running pot was a little banjo and singing to keep it happy. No better feeling than to sip coffee and warm your hands around a copper pot and quietly listen to the gurgling, bubbling & dripping. With the added benefit of being right there to do spoons from time to time.

Reading back I never did address the original question about proof estimation! To be honest, it never really did matter to me. If it was too strong to sip, add a little creek water to each glass or mix it with some Kool-Aid. NEVER dumped water in the bottle, always kept the bottle pure and unaltered. Don’t ever remember a batch ending up too weak to sip on, just not as strong as one might like.

I recall someone bringing by one of those glass float things and we tested some odd bottles from different runs. My memory ain’t what it used to be so no one hold me fast to these numbers but these are what I bring up. Got between 50% and 75% ABV (100 to 150 proof) for the regular single x runs with most being in the upper range. The 50 was a batch of strawberry brandy that was looking good so I ran it long to get more flavor. The one triple x I had came out at around 90% as I remember. Not much for flavor but it sure did have a kick. Using the old P&P of 10 drops, the lower proof ones would last just to the back of your tongue. I really do not specifically remember where the strawberry came in. Upper proof regulars would make it to the tongue but no further and the triple evaporated as you sucked it in.

So, the conclusion was basically the same as in the run. The weaker the proof the longer it would last in your mouth. 95% evaporated, 75% made it to your tongue and 50% or less made it all the way back. Remember this is using 10 drops, not sipping from the bottle or jar.

[mtnwalker2]

Woody, You flat lander. You ougt to move up into these high up hills. You are speaking a tongue told to me almost 47 or 8 years ago away on top of a mtn. in a cold draw where a spring sprung forth. Had several miles of a well worn trail along a creek with a cave of rododendrons almost as big as trees. Thats how I found it, thats how I first learned, and sparked my interest which is now blossaming.

They were small time distillers, per say, a bit for family, a bit for my grandfather who owned the land and exacted a gallon/month tax or rent. I was the collector. They did sell a bit in the main street local drugstore, pretty high quality southern corn whiskey, but were caught and incarcerated for several years.

I was a total youngster, but can remember they would capture, feel, smell taste, and toss in fire. Talking and trying to teach me.

Never saw them tipsy, thank God, as the first time I found their still with my Weimarainers in the lead, I looked at the still and all the site, and then into the evergreen brush to see a rifle looking straight at my eye.

At 8 years old, wasn't sure what to receive, when I said I was sent to collect a gallon/month rent. I immediately became a hit and welcome guest.

I so wish,I could remeber all that hey tried to teach me. Thanks to this forum, and some of you smarter than me, its beginning to come back.

Goose eye is a great helper in this, though he is a much warmer culture experiance than here. Common sense thoough.

Tater is kinda in between your neighborhood and mine, and seems able to answer angd guide all our questions from a lot of hard won experiance.

[Woody_Woodchuck]

Glad to see and hear that there are still folks around that like to keep the old ways around. I realize it is mighty tempting to have a setup that can make a run in short order, like I’ve been reading about here. Had I known that when I first started… yeah, I might have gone that way and never have known the joy of making a run from start to finish.

Being originally from the foothills of the Catskills (NE Pennsyltucky), I’d love to get back to having one leg longer than the other. But, older and wiser I know I need to stick around to where the work is… at least for a couple more years.

I would have liked to learn from family or friends that had it in their blood. I learned from a neighbor who knew about it but most was OJT and exchanging sips at music festivals around the area. You start passing around a jar at some places and you’d be mighty surprised at how many other jars appear! There were hard runs and the truck sure got used to running with a touch of high octane hooch.

I’ve already learned quite a bit from reading here this past week or two. I may be too old to change my ways but I ain’t old enough to think I know everything… yet.