CSST coil as deflag

Post by **humbledore** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 6:17 am

So I've been collecting parts for a new build. It will be a modular system with some plates and an optional packed column. It's kind of a franken-flute. I'm lazy and I don't want to start messing with hard/soft solder on copper for a deflag setup. So I'm chasing this idea, maybe its been done already. Instead of a 180 bend on top you have a T leading to an elbow. Meaning, the top of the column is open, and I'd have to cap it. But in the cap I'm drilling two holes and using CSST tubing. Imagine DAD300's CCVM only instead of sliding the condenser up and down, it's fixed BELOW the takeoff and the top of the column is capped. A pic is worth 1000 words so...

I'm kinda concerned about the two vertical strands causing problems when I start trying to draw product off. I guess there's only one way to find out. Thoughts?

Swag · Post by **Swag** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 7:05 am

If you ran the input (cold) tube towards the opposite side of the column (right side in the picture), it would have less effect on the passing vapor heading for the output. What's the advantage of having the deflag below the takeoff?

Post by **Danespirit** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 8:08 am

Well, i would be a little concerned about the cross sectional area..
When you have a static condenser in the vaporpath, you would effectivly block it. (the way you have shown it)
That is the way DAD 300 VM works..(in full reflux).
A dephlamgmator, would have a "Pass through" and cooling on the sides.
When cooling water is restricted, vapor can pass straight through without beeing condensed.
So i would not expect this to work, unless your condenser is small enough IMHO.
Edit: You might get away with it, if the condenser ain't that far down (the last coil just hanging down the T branch).

Post by **humbledore** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 8:18 am

Well, like a standard deflag design, you are turning down the cooling flow to the point where vapor CAN pass by the refluxing tubes...those tubes are surrounded by water. Just like here, the vapor needs to pass by a device that contains cooling water. A DAD300 design runs enough coolant that the coil _always_ knocks down the vapor, then moves the coil. It's a VM. Here you reduce the amount of coolant...hence CM.

I agree that in a perfect world you'd keep the two legs far away from the takeoff point. So they are not physically blocking it.

Post by **jedneck** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 1:49 pm

I did exactly that on my flute. Only I used copper. With a needle valve on the output it works like a champ.

Post by **googe** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 2:16 pm

+1 on jed, I did one similar too, worked well. the inlet/outlet tubes wouldn't be big enough to be any concern with stopping the vapor.

thatguy1313 · Post by **thatguy1313** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 3:03 pm

I thought about doing exactly this but couldn't ever get the cap right. Always leaked, though I suspect that's my incompetence soldering and welding. Eventually gave up and soldereda copper cold finger in the cap. Use that set up for CM and the corrugated tubing for CCVM.

Post by **Kegg_jam** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 3:34 pm

So is the advantage to this basically so you can shut off the reflux totally and run in pot still mode?

Not questioning the idea, just trying to sort out the advantages / disadvantages.

Post by **googe** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 4:08 pm

Kegg_jam wrote:So is the advantage to this basically so you can shut off the reflux totally and run in pot still mode?

Not questioning the idea, just trying to sort out the advantages / disadvantages.

Yes.

thatguy1313 · Post by **thatguy1313** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 5:04 pm

The advantage to me was being able to switch between CM and CCVM by just switching one piece.

Post by **humbledore** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 7:16 pm

Thanks for the input guys. jed, googe, glad to hear it works for you. I am scratching my head right now trying to figure out how to get the CSST through the triclamp cap. Might solder a copper reducer on the end and use copper tubing to solder thru the cap.

Post by **BentJar** » Sat Mar 28, 2015 2:02 am

Bend the gas pipe into a "W" shape and it will clear going into the tube.

Post by **humbledore** » Sat Mar 28, 2015 8:14 am

Hmm, not a bad idea. I was thinking of coiling it. I got 3/8"ID CSST X 60". Not sure how much I'll need. I have a 1/2" x 48" that knocks everything down pretty well but I can't get it to fully coil and still fit, it is more of a twisted braid. No the brain scratching part is how to plumb the cooling water through the triclamp cap.

Post by **still_stirrin** » Sat Mar 28, 2015 8:24 am

humbledore wrote:.....No the brain scratching part is how to plumb the cooling water through the triclamp cap.

Why not use a silicone O-ring????!!!!

Just kidding. Do they make a bulkhead fitting for that corrogated tubing? If so, those through holes in the cap would give you the sealed I/O.

Just wondering....
ss

Post by **humbledore** » Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:11 am

The fittings on the end of this CSST are some kind of plated material, maybe a zinc plate? I don't want them in the still. I am planning on cutting them off, and putting some kind of copper fitting on it and solder the crap out of it. Problem is, I'm not sure if this will be too much length and it might need adjusted.

Hound Dog · Post by **Hound Dog** » Sat Mar 28, 2015 12:15 pm

I often wondered why it was not done like this all the time instead of building a deflag. You could drill two holes in the side of your T route the stainless tubes out the side and solder the heck out of it. Keep dousing it with Stay Brite flux and you can get regular plumbing solder to stick and bridge the gaps. Just don't get it too hot. Even do a quick wrap of copper wire around the CSST where it comes through the copper T so it is a fairly tight fit then fill it up with solder.

coastershiner · Post by **coastershiner** » Sat Mar 28, 2015 12:46 pm

What about if instead of trying to get the stainless through the cap and worrying about a good seal, you installed two MIP-copper or FIP-copper adapters in the copper cap. Then you would just have two 1/2" copper pipes penetrating the cap. Whichever fittings would go with the connectors you bought for your gas line, assuming you got stainless ones not brass. you could male your connections right on the bottom side of the cap. This would probaly only work on a 3" or bigger cap, but it sounds like a far easyer solution than trying to solder ss to copper (which has been a failure every time I have tried).
I hope what I said makes sense. I can see it in my head, but im still a little foggy from last night, so I may not be explaining it well.

nevermind, u said u dont want the fitting in the still. There are ss connectors available. But u may not want to make another trip to the wholsaler.

Post by **humbledore** » Sat Mar 28, 2015 12:54 pm

Good thinking Hound Dog. Use some copper to help seal around gaps. I did solder CSST once before, it is a b*tch because the grooves are in a spiral...hard to seal. I am hoping to find a tight fit with 1/2" copper tubing as an external sleeve over the CSST and then solder that in. Coastershiner I think I know what you are saying, but any fitting I have seen on a CSST around here has been zinc-plated, they are not SS.

Hound Dog · Post by **Hound Dog** » Sat Mar 28, 2015 7:15 pm

Yes, I have found that if you just keep dribbling a little liquid flux on the joint and keep the flame low I have had great success soldering stainless. Once it is tinned up you just have to melt more solder on top of it to build it up.

carbohydratesn · Post by **carbohydratesn** » Sat Mar 28, 2015 7:32 pm

humbledore wrote:I did solder CSST once before, it is a b*tch because the grooves are in a spiral...hard to seal

The 3/8'' Tracpipe CSST I ordered has parallel corrugations, no spiral. It looks like it shouldn't be too hard to seal. And as an added bonus, the straight return section doubles as a whistle! It makes a great tone, like a flute.

It's good to hear that it's easy as far as soldering is concerned, I'm getting ready to figure out how to mate 1/4'' copper tubing into the ends of mine. Either a small copper plate to fill the gap, or a plug of copper wire that I'll just drench in solder in the tube to form a solid seal.

DAD300 · Post by **DAD300** » Sat Mar 28, 2015 7:47 pm

My concept on this was to put the CSST Dephl in the "T" and takeoff from the top of the "T".

: CSST%20Dephlegmator.png (14.85 KiB) Viewed 4006 times

Post by **still_stirrin** » Sat Mar 28, 2015 8:00 pm

That's slick, Dad. I like it. And I think it'll give good control too.
ss

Post by **Kegg_jam** » Sun Mar 29, 2015 3:43 am

What about some pooling in the T? I bet eventually there would be enough to leak out the opening.

Now if you put the T on a 45 or something...

I could be wrong tho

Edit: I forgot, it was going to be capped for pot still mode.

Post by **humbledore** » Sun Mar 29, 2015 6:07 am

DAD300 wrote:My concept on this was to put the CSST Dephl in the "T" and takeoff from the top of the "T".

CSST%20Dephlegmator.png

I had a light bulb moment when I saw that. But after consideration I would be concerned that the coil would not be big enough in 2" pipe to knock everything down coming in horizontal like that. Because the max vertical dimension as shown would be 2".

Post by **humbledore** » Sun Mar 29, 2015 6:09 am

carbohydratesn wrote:
humbledore wrote:I did solder CSST once before, it is a b*tch because the grooves are in a spiral...hard to seal
The 3/8'' Tracpipe CSST I ordered has parallel corrugations, no spiral. It looks like it shouldn't be too hard to seal. And as an added bonus, the straight return section doubles as a whistle! It makes a great tone, like a flute.

It's good to hear that it's easy as far as soldering is concerned, I'm getting ready to figure out how to mate 1/4'' copper tubing into the ends of mine. Either a small copper plate to fill the gap, or a plug of copper wire that I'll just drench in solder in the tube to form a solid seal.

Where did you source your CSST? Is it US? I already did what you are about to do with my current condenser, only with 3/8", that's how I know it's a b*tch with spirals. Hopefully non-spiral makes that easier.

Post by **humbledore** » Sun Mar 29, 2015 7:42 am

This is looking promising...this is 3/8" CSST and a 1/2" to 1/4" copper reducer into which 3/8" soft copper line fits perfectly. I could drill holes in the cap and seat the reducers into it and solder.

One thing I'm realizing is that the standard dephleg (yes I spelled it wrong in the thread name) has the advantage of being short. This approach is going to much higher vertically.

carbohydratesn · Post by **carbohydratesn** » Sun Mar 29, 2015 7:50 am

Where did you source your CSST? Is it US?

US ebay, the ad said it would be “Dusty, Dirty and Sun Bleached!”, but luckily that only affects the plastic covering

I just ran a knife point down the jacket the whole length of the tubing and it pulled right off. $1 per foot, plus $7.60 S/H - it was a really good deal compared to getting it new at a hardware store, they're asking $30+ for two feet of the stuff...

And that connection looks really great! I might nab that idea! Never even thought of using a reducer, looks much cleaner than anything I was planning on trying.

Hound Dog · Post by **Hound Dog** » Sun Mar 29, 2015 8:25 am

humbledore wrote:
Where did you source your CSST? Is it US? I already did what you are about to do with my current condenser, only with 3/8", that's how I know it's a b*tch with spirals. Hopefully non-spiral makes that easier.

Gastite brand sold at Home Depot and many plumbing supply stores is regular straight corrugation not spiral. I never saw spiral like that myself.

Hound Dog · Post by **Hound Dog** » Sun Mar 29, 2015 8:30 am

humbledore wrote:
DAD300 wrote:My concept on this was to put the CSST Dephl in the "T" and takeoff from the top of the "T".

CSST%20Dephlegmator.png
I had a light bulb moment when I saw that. But after consideration I would be concerned that the coil would not be big enough in 2" pipe to knock everything down coming in horizontal like that. Because the max vertical dimension as shown would be 2".

I thought the same. After you get a loop on the bottom it seems like it would be hard to get more than a coil in the vapor path.

Post by **humbledore** » Fri Apr 03, 2015 4:50 pm

Making a test run, trying to figure out the best way to run these out the sides. It's more complicated than it looks. The CSST doesn't have much room to move around.

Edit: I have to predrill the holes, solder the fittlngs on, and slide them down into the column and hope they align for the most part and shove them thru the side.

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