Distilling blues

[Bsnapshot]

Hi Folks. I been reading on this form for about 6 months now and have received some good advice from a lot of you. I keep reading the post from new distillers of there first runs and the success they are having. I have done 7 runs now with a sugar wash and rum wash and put in many long hours watching temps and equalizing the still and I have not had one bit of success. I just can not figure it out. Everything tastes like crap. Like a old sock. I just do not know what my problem is.

I decided to build a Bokakob still. I made it 32 inches tall instead of the 24” in the plan.
I used silver solder with 3% silver lead free. Cleaned it out with vinegar and hot water. Ran a full run wide open with just water to clean.

First run was birdwatches sugar wash 20 L. Tossed out first 100 ml and collected at 178 F for about 4 hours 2 drips a sec. Smelled ok but taste was not there. Collected 1800 ml 80 % ABV. I cleaned out boiler and added this back in with one gallon of fresh water. Equalized for 30 min started to collect tossed 100 ml and collected until temp went up to 190 F and ABV dropped from 85 ABV to 50 ABV. I did several runs this way until all 10 gallons of wash was used. I thought maybe the packing scrubbers may be the problem because they would smell bad when removed for cleaning in vinegar. Then I ran with out them and had the smell still sometimes even worse. Ordered copper packing from Brewhause gave that a try, still smelled and tasted bad. Getting depressed at this point I cleaned everything real good again with vinegar and water.

I moved on to my rum wash made with feed molasses with out any additives. Smelled and tasted good going into the boiler. Ran with out packing and bring up to temp slow about 45 min for 20 L at 178 F Tossed out first 150 ml collected and tasted in 100 ml cuts. Somewhat a better smell but taste was junk. Run took 6 hours one drip a sec. Next run I tried a strip run and re distilled still same results. ABV was 85 %

All washes were fermented correctly. I have many years experience in wine and beer so I was sure that was all correct I used lavin white wine yeast and backers yeast that did not give me any difference in taste. At this point I just do not know what to do.

Sorry for letting you all down.

[wineo]

It could be your water.If theres a high mineral content,it can cause off flavors.Too much iron will make it taste bad.Are you airing out your spirits well?That will make a big difference also.You can also make a larger forshot cut,and cut out more heads,and tails to reduce flavors.
You can also put some baking soda or sodium carbonate in your distillate,and run it again to reduce flavors.It has to be in a stripped wash.Dont use it in your first run.

[Uncle Jesse]

You say you ran at 178F for 4 hours? The temperature never rose gradually? That sounds odd to me. Also 4 hours is a pretty fast distillation for a spirit run in a column still.

When I'm distilling the column temperature slowly rises. Near the end of the run it rises more quickly. At the end I'm up near 192F usually, or at least into the high 180's. It takes me at least 6-8 hours to finish the run.

Sounds to me like your column is either too efficient, ie too much reflux or you're constantly adding more reflux to keep the temperature down.

[showrguy]

sorry to hear that, i dunno what's wrong ?? after 7 runs i'm sure you know how to "drive" your still by now.......

only thing i can think of is weather you have your column insulated or not ??
my 1st run with my tall column was not insulated, i had to run the heat so hard that i was getting tails thruoghout the entire run, i'm insulated now and all is good..
sorry, that's all i have to offer...

[stoker]

what a sad story
I don't know what you have done wrong. did you put yeast and other sediments in your boiler? or just the (cleared) wash?
If you go for neutral spirit, then take of at 95-96%, not lower.

[Ricky]

all the advise you have been given in this post is good. the only thing i can add is what type of boiler do you have? and a pic might help too. the other question is have you ever drank home made liquor before? i know neutrall is neutral but if it aint 93% or better it aint neutral. you just might not like the taste of the stuff. my wife and myself love the stuff i make but a lot of other people dont care for it.

[Bsnapshot]

Wow guys I did not expect such a quick response but that is what makes everyone hear so cool. To answer some of your questions.

Wino
I am using water out of my tap. That is one thing I did not try to change yet. I make beer and wine with great success using the tap water so I thought I should not have to much concern hear. I can try and change that. I did try diluting some sugar wash I had ay 80 % ABV and it clouded right away and later cleared and there was some white sediment on the bottom.

Uncle Jesse
I did run at 178 F for four hours and then the temp started to go up every 15 min about 3-4 degrees. I let it go for another hour to 190 F and collected for the next run but with the smell and taste I just shut it down about 5 hours in. Efficient column I do not know because with or with out packing slow or fast run I get 80 to 85 ABV. Never any higher. After several hours then it starts to drop to 60 ABV then to 40 ABV

Showguy
Yes I think I got the driving part down. After I first built it tracker0945 and Husker helped me a bunch with great info and learned a lot there. I have tried the column insulated and not but I do currently have it insulated

Stroker
I have tried right after fermenting with the sediment and then I tried after the sugar wash was clear you could see through like a nice wine. I can not seam to get the ABV past 85 %

Ricky
I am using a SS boiler, I can put up some pic’s when I get home. The only homemade liquor I had was many years ago when I lived in Tennessee and the stuff reminded me of drinking ever clear it burned as it went down. Everyone says it is better than the store bought stuff. But the stuff I am turning out is not that good..

[Husker]

To me, it sounds like you are taking the run way too long. Try collecting in small containers (say 200ml). Then smell / taste each one of them after allowing them to be open and air out AT LEAST overnight. I bet you will find that the last few jars will be NASTY. If you are getting any of that into your product, it will spoil it all.

That is why I recommend little containers, until you have a good idea on just HOW much to collect safely for a certain recipe. Once you know that, you can use a bigger container for the center of the hearts, and only use small containers when you are close to the head/body or body/tail transitions.

When mixing, when in doubt, Throw It Out (put it in your next spirit run).

Also, instead of getting 1.8L and adding 4L and redistilling right away, try to do 3 runs. That will get you 5.4L of low wines. Then water that with about 4L of water and run that product. I think you find it easier to make your cuts if the amount of ethanol is larger (i.e. the GOOD body will be much larger).

H.

[wineo]

If you had some clouding when you add water then there has to be a problem with the water,or your wash.What was the ph of your ferment?
Is it possable that your running your rig too fast,and mixing heads/tails throughout the run?4 hours does sound like a short time for a high reflux run.It seems like you would know if you had a water problem from your wines and beers.I rairly keep anything that comes off at the end of the run because its so nasty.I usually stop at 35-40% but in a reflux run even that would be nothing but ending tails.Dont give up.There has to be some answers,and between everybody here we should be able to help you figure it out.

[Bsnapshot]

Wineo

I do not know what the ph of my water is. I remember reading posts on that but I never thought of it as a problem just because of my experience with my wine and beer which I have turned out some award winning ones with my tap water. May be I should figure out how to test the ph and check that.

As far as running the still to fast I am not sure. I bring up to temp, stabilize at 174 F for 30 min start the flow at about one drop per sec something like 50 ml every 3 min. Take off first 100 ml and then I put some on my fingers and nail, feels real clean. I then collect in 100 ml cuts and check ABV% which is usually 80 – 85% every 100 ml gets it own clean jar. When it drops to 50 then it starts to feel slippery on the finger nail. Buy this time I am usually at 185 – 190 F

When I said I do 4 hour runs I meant buy 4 hours the ABV starts to drops low and it smells so bad I just stop between the 4 -5 hour.

You did bring up a good point in your last post. When you mentioned iron in the water. It almost has that type of smell and taste. Some kind of metal taste but I have city water that is supose to be good.. LOL I thought it was from the chor boy copper scrubbers so I bought the copper packing from Brewhaus

Each of my 100 ml jars I collect I do let air out for a day or so. One time for a week. I can tell a difference from the first 100 ml then the next 3 -5 jars are better but still have a metal smell. Then the last 2-3 jars wheeew yuck.

[Pikluk]

1.5" x 36" 50ml per 3 min...
way to fast
try like 250-300ml per hour
and for neutral filter with carbon

[Bsnapshot]

I am at work and do not have my notes in front of me. I have two measuring glasses I use one goes in 50 ml increments and the other go in 10 ml increments. When timing out the drips I was going for the first line but was using the smaller so I gave wrong information. I am ruining at 10 ml per 3 minutes or 50 ml in 15 min but that may be to fast also.

Sorry I did not mean to give bad info.

[wineo]

Try to check your wash Ph to see if it was too low or high.If it gets too low it will slow way down.If its high when it ends,it could cause some reaction with the materials in your still.It sounds like you might be running too fast.
You should build a short potstill column and use it for stripping your washes,and save the reflux for the spirit run.It will go faster that way.You may find that just making 2 pot runs will do better in about the same amount of run time than the reflux.

[Pikluk]

i would try to run it at a lower temp close 174.
and filtering with carbon can make the difference from oh my god whats that smell and i cant smell and taste anything.

[Bsnapshot]

Hear are some pics of the still I have..

http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/25 ... 0483RsAQtL" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/21 ... 0483HnPgGF" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[Bsnapshot]

what do I use to test the Ph of the water

[wineo]

I dont think its the waters ph thats causing problems.It should be about 7.something.I was refering to your pre + post fermentation PH values.They should be between 4.5-5.2.If there too high or low,it could be causing problems in the still.

[BW Redneck]

Check eBay for Ph test strips

There are also electronic testers out there, but they're more expensive and not always accurate.

[Bsnapshot]

I just found some test papers on the science and surplus web sight and they are located in my home town so I will stop and pick some up on the way home tomorrow

[Uncle Jesse]

sure, any pH test kit as long as it covers the proper ranges

[Mopar Redneck]

Yep, gonna be the smart ass here, but: I could not fail to notice in the original post that you said that the wash smelled and tasted good. Not trying to call your beer/wine making experience into question, but I have yet to smell or taste a wash that was "good." Although this is "essentially" the same as wine or beer, when your wine is done, it is suppose to taste good. When spirit washes are done they usually taste like crap. Are you actually running all the way out on your ferment? (suger has made mine taste like crap).

[Bsnapshot]

Hi Mopar redneck

Naw you not a smart ass… I am just looking for any help I can get on this. It bothers me that I am failing at this.
I am sure that the ferment is all the way complete. I been I have checked with hydrometer and the taste of it. My sugar washes at the end taste like a sour wine and the molasses rum washes taste like a bitter molasses. What I meant when I said that they taste and smelled good is there was no vinegar or oxidized smell or taste.

[Tater]

I have yet to smell or taste a wash that was "good." Although this is "essentially" the same as wine or beer, when your wine is done, it is suppose to taste good. When spirit washes are done they usually taste like crap. Are you actually running all the way out on your ferment? (suger has made mine taste like crap).

Thats odd Ive had several washes I could of drank as is without distilling.Some washes I wouldnt drink on a bet. Both made good product.

[Bsnapshot]

I just wondering if it was the molasses I used. It was suppose to be with out any additives but that do not explain the bad end product I am getting with the sugar wash. I am using tap water and it is suppose to be one of the best since we had all those problems with criptospridium years ago. I am going to stop later today and get some pH testers just to rule that out. The only other thing I can think of is the solder I used. Even thought it said it was 3% silver.

[Digger]

i got some cheap copper scrubbers, but they were just copperplated.
this could explain the iron taste.


sorry gents,must of had a senoir moment
missed the part about the scubbers.[/quote]

[dog1976]

I just wondering if it was the molasses I used. It was suppose to be with out any additives but that do not explain the bad end product I am getting with the sugar wash. I am using tap water and it is suppose to be one of the best since we had all those problems with criptospridium years ago. I am going to stop later today and get some pH testers just to rule that out. The only other thing I can think of is the solder I used. Even thought it said it was 3% silver.

For a test make another sugar wash, but go to a store and buy distilled water to make it out of. If you have no bad smells or taste with this wash, then the problem is your water. I have a water softener and use soft water for my washes.

[Bsnapshot]

Over the weekend I bought some Ph test strips and this is what I found. My water out of the tap was 6 and the mash I am using is 5. I think this is within the limits as being good.

If I buy a gallon of white wine and use some purified water to dilute it with and run it that way this should tell me if it is my tap water right? If I am still getting any off taste then it has to be in my still or just my inability to run the still the correct way?

[Dnderhead]

You do not have to dilute wine to run
you keep saying it taste "bad" One ,if your running reflux still
you should be getting something like"everclear"
What I can read It looks like you are doing things wright
Most taste comes from ageing,oaking,airing,or added flavors
but I can't taste on computer
Heads taste like paint thinner -- tailes like something in the sink trap

[Bsnapshot]

Dunderhead

I wish I was getting something that taste like Everclear. The taste I am getting is more of a metal taste. Some seam to think it may be something in my tape water so I am trying to eliminate that. I was using chor boy pot scrubbers for the packing but have replaced them with copper packing from Brewhause. I cleaned the inside of the column everything in the vapor path is copper or SS

In the beginning I do get the paint thinner taste and smell and in the middle is when I pick up the metal like taste. The tails I get are just awful. I have even let the middles air out for a week without any improvement.

[HookLine]

Thats odd Ive had several washes I could of drank as is without distilling.

The tomato paste washes I've run are quite drinkable up to about 4-5%, if they were given the full beer treatment they would probably make an okay beer.

Above that % they start getting, not exactly unpleasant, but not really drinkable either.