Home Distiller

Many say that clarifying the wash prior to distilling can decrease risk of odors and tastes in final product so I figured out it'd be good to remove as much yeast as possible before distilling. I've got gas burner so it can create hot spots and even I use boiling sand for smoother boiling it can cause problems.

I found out that gelatin and bentonite are one of the cheapest clarifiers available. Is this true, how much should they be used and in what temp? Living in northern hemisphere has the bonus of getting very cold (0 deg C) outside overnight, could it help to settle the yeast? A 40-L batch should not freeze in 12 hours even when left in minus degrees. Waiting weeks and decanting is the last option.

Time and patience. And the cold will help.

You beat me to it PFS
On a side note, the wash doesn't have to be clear, just not muddy. And even that can be argued. Sometimes the yeast adds to the flavor profile.
Based on the OP's question, I'd say let it set over night after racking it from the fermenter to another bucket, wait a day then rack it into the pot.
If you can't rack then gently pour and don't be too greedy, leave some of the sludge in the bottom of the bucket behind.

What pf said... Let it clear then rack it let it clear again, then rack it into boiler.

Cold crash is the best. If you have a fridge you can put the ferment in that is 34-38F it really helps clear things a faster.

Also what yeast did you use? Some yeasts clear faster....

You can get stuff from the brew store for clearing wine, but I never bother. It works really well to clear wine... but for what I still not worth it to me and who knows what in that crap.

B

Just said.. It's like 0deg C outside now and for the next 6 months.. Can I utilize that for settling somehow? I have no near the size of fridge for this.

Say some common uses for bentonite clay? It's sold as cat litter in local supermarket but it is odorized with some eau de crapper thing and I certainly don't want that in my still.

If it is cold outside then of coarse you can put it outside to cold crash it.

My opinion is to just let it run it's course, it will settle when it is done. I've never seen the need to cold crash myself but as someone else said once, patience is the hardest thing to put in a bottle (or something like that), I think that was Flatwoods.

I agree with you cranky.. never cold crashed here for whisky but for beer it can be useful. MY last UJSSM was about 6 weeks after finished before I could run it.

B

Spriit Tisler wrote:...Say some common uses for bentonite clay? It's sold as cat litter in local supermarket but it is odorized with some eau de crapper thing and I certainly don't want that in my still...

Ha. I try to stay away from depositing litter box droppings in my fermented beverages.

I'd suggest looking at one or ten of the many home-brew forums that talk about clarification of a ferment. The hobby is well founded in the processes. If you had a desire to do this hobby...I'd suggest starting with the fundamentals...like brewing beer or wine. It will help you a lot with those processes.

But of course...you'd rather simply poll the forums here. Much easier, right?
ss

i run dirty all the time, i open ferment for days on end, i do due my best to filter any major solids using the same paint bags...

no one has ever mentioned " off taste, yeasty flavor , ect" to my bourbon.

just saying, million ways to do it with to many variables between you and me.....

just saying, gotta figure out what you like


cheers

'No Wine Before It's Time' . Put that patience factor back in the wash and chill until it is done .

Truckinbutch wrote:'No Wine Before It's Time' . Put that patience factor back in the wash and chill until it is done .

how long is patience? like rad says , how long is a piece of sstring?

if my ferment is done in 4 days, why let it sit for 2-5-7- 14 more days just to clear?

i could do 2 more ferments in that time.

im not one to push the limits but i go with the flow with when the ferment is done, run it. thats just me

Is this clear enough? Oh well, I'm guessing no finning agent will clear this....

rager wrote: if my ferment is done in 4 days, why let it sit for 2-5-7- 14 more days just to clear?

It just might give you an even better finished product, that's why.

Not saying you don't make a fine product already, I'm sure you do, but have you ever tried actually comparing the final product of a single batch, half run dirty and the other half allowed to clear for an extra week or two, or three?

I can't taste the yeast in a final product from a wash that wasn't fully cleared but my wife can, even after 2 runs, one of them being neutral. Just because people may not say anything doesn't mean they don't taste it.

rager wrote:

Truckinbutch wrote:'No Wine Before It's Time' . Put that patience factor back in the wash and chill until it is done .

how long is patience? like rad says , how long is a piece of sstring?

if my ferment is done in 4 days, why let it sit for 2-5-7- 14 more days just to clear?

i could do 2 more ferments in that time.

im not one to push the limits but i go with the flow with when the ferment is done, run it. thats just me

I got no quarrel with you , Bro . Fact is that I start running a bit on the dirty side of my ferments if I'm a bit short on my drinkin , which is often given family and my own consumption . I do notice a fully fermented wash has a clearer look and a better taste . Should you hold out for that if you're out of drinkin? NOT IN MY LIFETIME , JESSIE !

Kegg jam, just looking at that picture that wash does not look like it is done. Too many bubbles on top, and also still too milky looking. Patience Grass Hopper!!!!

I tried bentonite. Other clearing agents worked better. The combination of kieselsol and gelatine is cheap and clears complete and fast. Kieselsol and chitosan works even better, but perhaps chitosan is expensive or hard to get at your place.
I don't have a cold place for "natural-clearing". So for me, with clearing agents I get a better neutral.
Per 10l I use: 5g kieselsol (10% solution). After 2h I add 1g gelatine (solved with some 50°C warm water) without disturbing the trub. Wait 24h.

In most wine I use Kieselsol and chitosan works very fast. Normally in 24 hours things are crystal clear.

I'm a patient guy..... I let things sit.

B

OBX Phantom wrote:Kegg jam, just looking at that picture that wash does not look like it is done. Too many bubbles on top, and also still too milky looking. Patience Grass Hopper!!!!

Sorry, poor attempt at humor. That was freshly squeezed Oats and Rye. Small experimental batch to test rolled oats straight out of the bag.

Here it is after overnight sit.

Dumped in some 2dl of bentonite, it foamed a bit when excess CO2 left. I siphoned a small amount before I poured and it was quite clear from the surface already. Let it sit overnight in cool carage (10C etc) and see tomorrow if it has worked.

Btw, does sodium silicate work as flocculant agent? I can get it cheaply in large amounts, but I can't get colloidal silica(isinglass etc) nor chitosan. Well, quess I've got to test it tomorrow, take a small sample from the ferm batch and do it in beaker scale.

Best way to use bentonite is to rehydrate it first. Add to 10 times its volume in clean water.
Stir and let it sit for several hours stirring regularly. Then add the slurry mix to the wash - It is best to degas the wash first .

Be aware it will strip some flavour from the wash

Yes, add bentonite to water. NOT water to bentonite. It's important.

In my instance I only want 100% neutral vodka as alcohol base for flavored recipes, so technically I can add anything into the ferm batch to get it clear, including chemicals that won't come over upon distillation and that won't ruin the (SS) still. I was thinking through all options from sodium/calcium hydroxide, sodium silicate, a strong(sulfuric?) acid, gelatin, bentonite, aluminium hydroxide, commercial wastewater flocculants, etc and include possible neutralization of acid/base and possible crude filtration prior to distillation to reduce all remaining active chemicals into carbonates/sulfates/etc. that have either very high BP and are chemically inert. Of course, the agent must be not hazardous to health since the product is to be consumed in significant amounts - NaOH as drain cleaner can contain trace amounts of mercury if it is produced in mercury cell plant, although it is nowadays mostly banned in Europe. Note: these are just all thinking, I'm probably gonna test sodium silicate thing asap in beaker scale since I've got it in my shelf and if it happens to work well(good-better than bentonite-gelatine) I'll give it a go for batch.

I'm using packed 1.2m/2" boka reflux still so I'm not even sure if it is necessary to clean off the yeast prior to distillation, if the fractioning can bring down any sides.

I so wish I had one of these

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwHa-WzmThU" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Boy, you like to put way more crap into the wash than I would ever even consider. I think less is more (better). But if your ferments shits the pot...why not pour shit back into it. Bubble, bubble, toil and trouble.

I'm outa' here.
ss

still_stirrin wrote:Boy, you like to put way more crap into the wash than I would ever even consider. I think less is more (better). But if your ferments shits the pot...why not pour shit back into it. Bubble, bubble, toil and trouble.

I'm outa' here.
ss

Me , too

You're too conservative. Everything in industry is packed full of different chemicals with different purposes and yet we buy and happily eat all that stuff and it's way better than in 18th century, so if one can cheaply run fermentation batch, clarify it with some stuff and turn it into neutral vodka in fast pace, is it really so bad? Second to that, this testing costs me pennies.

EDIT:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9BY69KnzoU" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

How would that do to yeast?

tb- i got no bad blood either man, i was just sayin, thats all.

cranky. i know you have preached the slow and steady method. i can respect that. i only work with a 5 gallon boiler . so once my mash is finished it ran so i can get the fermenters filled again. i will though give it a try on my next batch. ill do my usual recipe but let everything clear real well before i start my stripping run. ill report back in either this thread or the next one that pops up in regards to clear vs dirty mash running. i think the reason why i run dirty is also because i dont want an infection. a do nothing as far as sterilization is concerned. if you are really good with keeping things clean and you get no infection after weeks of sitting your a better/ braver man than i


OP, i wouldnt add any of that shit to my mash that you posted about. just sayin me personally. i have to tell myself its ok to add some DAP to my rum washes. less is more . if you want to clear your mash/wash stick in the fridge to help clear it faster.

cheers

rager wrote:cranky. i know you have preached the slow and steady method. i can respect that. i only work with a 5 gallon boiler . so once my mash is finished it ran so i can get the fermenters filled again. i will though give it a try on my next batch. ill do my usual recipe but let everything clear real well before i start my stripping run. ill report back in either this thread or the next one that pops up in regards to clear vs dirty mash running. i think the reason why i run dirty is also because i dont want an infection. a do nothing as far as sterilization is concerned. if you are really good with keeping things clean and you get no infection after weeks of sitting your a better/ braver man than i

I do preach the low and slow, I feel like a broken record sometimes. I also got my first infection (well second really) a couple weeks ago. Luckily it was a lacto infection well after the wash was clear. I have a lot of fermenters, most currently occupied with apple cider at the moment but normally I try to have 3 washes going, one for now, one for next month and one just started. 5 gallon buckets are cheap and so is patience.

OP, I fail to see why you asked the question if you were going to completely ignore virtually everybody's answers and do something completely off the wall. If you must rush, just do what the others who rush do and run it dirty or use a conventional method rather than dumping potentially toxic crap into the wash.

Well I see the major difference here is that people are doing flavored stuff that is to be consumed either pot stilled or directly without any distillation phase involved. I wouldn't dump anything into that I'd not eat otherwise - probably only food isle gelatine if anything. But when I'ts supposed to be fractioned into neutral pure alcohol, I see it's a different story then.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9BY69KnzoU" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
https://youtu.be/5uuQ77vAV_U?t=167" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

After seeing these clips aluminium sulfate looks very appealing to me, keeping in mind many countries dump that thing in truckloads into drinking water mains during different phases of water purification and it and it's possibly formed salts (oxide, hydroxide, chloride, sulfate) have all very high boiling points, there is virtually zero chance anything comes over during distillation phase.

Again, my concept is: prepare sugar-yeast-water-wash under ACF water lock, allow to ferment until completion, then clarify with Al Sulfate, decant with siphon or/and filter with crude sand filter and perform a distillation, and - if necessary - apply soda and active carbon under magnetic stirring for day or two, then dilute with water, crude filter again and re-distill to azeotropic neutralized alcohol.

I respect people doing the old way, but I want to test wether it's the only way and if there are other ways.