just finished my first run

[motorhead]

Just finished my first run of UJSM. This was my very first attempt at distilling anything. I built a pot still out of a 15 gallon keg, no column on it, just a lyne arm coming off the top. I collected 5 litre of distilate, it started coming off at 45% abv and I collected down to just over 20% abv. Strange thing though, the still really did'nt start running until I hit about 90C. Then it locked in at 93C and stayed there for a long time, it climbed to 98C when the abv started to decline and I shut it down. But I did'nt get a drop below 90C. Maybe my thermometer is placed in a bad spot? it's located right at the top of the keg next to the 90 degree elbow into the lyne arm. I thought that was the proper place for it but I can't explain the why it got so high before i got any distilate. Anyone else evr encounter this?

[Dnderhead]

never mind temp's in pot still go by % the thermometer would have
to be in vapor path as top of column did you make cuts?

[tracker0945]

Temperature readings and product take-off depends on a number of variables. The alcohol potential of the wash, length of condenser (coil or liebig), location of thermometer etc.etc. each slightly different for every still
If your product started the odd drip at around 60, 70 or even 80c and progressed to a steady thin stream at around 90c where it all settled down for a fair while then it all sounds to me as if everything was running completely normal for a wash that was around 8 to 12% or so.
If you wished to collect at a stronger (slower) rate then you would have needed to lower your heat input to maintain your desired collection rate/strength for a slightly longer period - but this I feel is a lesson best left for a few runs yet until you understand better how your still behaves.
Cheers

[motorhead]

yes, I made my cuts. It was a ten gallon wash. The first 250ml went down the drain and from there on I collected 6 1/2 750ml bottles. Just about 5 liters. A couple things I noticed - I dont really detect to much of a difference between in taste in the first 4 750ml bottles, the next 2 1/2 though are definately tails and I can detect that bitter taste. I didnt go far enough for it to get nasty but that off flavor is there. The clarity of the distilate also progressivly decreased, the first bottles were crystal clear and then they got cloudier as i went along. I plan on saving up 10 or 12 gallons and doing an all spirit run.

[Dnderhead]

Let it sit four a while then try .other than that sounds like your
on the right path

[Usge]

The placement of your thermometer sounds (from description) about right. But, like others said...it could be reading off for any number of reasons. Every strip run of UJSM my pot therm "sits" right around 92-93 for a while. But, at 93c ..you should be seeing 55% or so coming off. This is all pre-determined by the abv of whatever you are cooking off in the pot.

In theory, and I do emphasize "theory", if your temp reading is 93c when it "settles", the starting abv of your wash was approximately 10% or so. If it settles closer to 90...then your wash was closer to 15%. If your therm is like mine, it's hard to read really small changes in temp. Mine is liquid, and the hash marks or degree marks are very close together. But, I have found mine to be generally accurate indicator of 1) where I'm at in a run, 2) what abv (approximately) is coming off at any given point and time 3) when I'm approaching my preferred cut ranges based on abv. I've also found it to be a generally accurate indicator of starting abv of wash (or whatever I'm cooking). In otherwords...a generally useful tool for feedback and for learning. Having said that, i would note, there are many experienced distillers here who have never used one. So, it's just my opinion, as a newcomer to this—recognizing at the same time that there is an "art" to all this as well.

Given all the caveats: lets take your info and plug it through the chart from the theory section of the main site and see what we can see:

Starting with the assumption of an accurate measure of 45% starting abv for what first came off (considering thats more accurate gauge than the temp) would mean your starting temp where your pot settled should actually have been closer to 95c (as opposed to 93c)...and would mean that the abv of your starting wash was approximately 7%. Again, that's just theory/assumptive. However, looking at that, I'd note a couple of things objectively. The wash starting abv appears to be a tad on the low side (particularly for a sugar based UJSM wash). And, your thermometer is less than 2 degrees off. Congratulations!! Not too shabby I'd say for a first run!! You should have seen "mine"! It was a disaster.


Mindful of caveats about thermometers and readings, your wash runs on a pot are always going to start or "sit" somewhere in the low 90s (given the abv range of a wash). Your low-wines (or 2nd or cuts) run is generally always going to start in the low 80s. The reason for this is because those things are entirely determined by the starting abv of what you are running. Lastly, if you want to cross check all this information, there is a chart in the distillation "theory" section of the main site, on the relationship between temp and alc concentration for both liquid and vapor (2 curves) that you may find interesting.

Varying the heat will make the process happen faster or slower. Slower tends to give more separation and with slightly better reflux. (which is what you want for your 2nd or cuts run). Faster renders the same volume of alc but with generally less separation (which is what you want for your first runs/stripping runs).

[Usge]

I would add, in case all that was not evident from the above, that typically, you would distill "twice" with a pot still making whiskey. The first run of a wash will give you about 1/4 volume of what are called "low-wines" that have a combined % averaging somewhere in the 35-45% range. That is then "usually" distilled again, once you save up enough to charge your still with (usually 3 or 4 runs). That gives you a more refined spirit at higher abvs from which to make your select cuts from (generally ending with somewhere between 70-75% abv on average).

Each time you run it, you increase the purity and you loose some flavor.
If you kept distilling it...you'd end up with a much smaller amount of "neutral" spirit (something more like vodka) at even higher abv. But, it's a process of diminishing returns.

Some people prefer to distill once with more reflux capable units that can do higher abv on a single run. Some people like the flavor of first runs (low wines) at 50-60%. Some, mix that with 2nd runs. It's all fair game and personal preference. But, in general, typcially, and is usual practice, you run whiskey 2x through a pot. (I believe it's been said that in the old days, that's what the "x" were on those jugs (one x, was low-wines. xx was double distilled. And xxx was triple distilled).

First run is done fast..as a stripping run to get low-wines that you will charge the still with. Since you are going to run this again anyway, you save all this without doing cuts, except the foreshots that you always toss on every run regardless. This retains more flavor as a fast run tends to have less seperation. Perfect for low-wines. THEN, when you collect enough low-wines, you charge the still and run that at low heat and you separate everyrthing to make cuts.

That's typically how things are done anyway.

It goes without saying, that the higher abv you are dealing with, that you should be very mindful of precautions (good ventillation and keeping distillate or any chance for a spill away from open flames, etc.,).

[motorhead]

Thanks for all the info, it was helpful. Those numbers are pretty acurate. My still started dripping at about 93c and locked in at 93.8c. I'm using a digital thermometer. It stayed at 93.8c for an hour and then slowly climbed to 98c over the next 3 hours. I believe my starting wash was about 6% which I also thought was low for ujsm but the hydrometer gave me a reading of 49 as a starting point. I used my alcoholmeter every 750ml to determine the abv%. I will definately be distilling a second time, my distilate takes more like a liqour than whiskey. It has a sweet almost black licorace taste. not terrible but definately not what i'm looking for. Also, this was my "first" run, so no backset was used in the fermentation stage. Everything i collected this run will be used as feints in the next. It was a little confusing because i spent about an hour trying to keep the still temp in the 80c range and I was'nt getting any distilate. Finally i just decided to let it go a see what happened

[punkin]

If you are double distilling, MH, you are probably better off saving the low wines you got yesterday all up rather than chuck em in your next charge.

Keep em for 4 or 5 goes and then put em all in together.


Your heads cut will be much easier to taste after that too

[motorhead]

when i double distill should i add some backset for flavor or just distill straight low wines from all my previous batches?

[punkin]

when i double distill should i add some backset for flavor or just distill straight low wines from all my previous batches?

I just charge my still with the firstrun stuff.

I'm by no means an expert distiller, but it works for me.

[Usge]

motorhead,
sounds good. Couple of things....you should "definitely" check out the chart I pointed you too.

I would definitely use smaller samplings for more accurate abv readings. 750ml too much. What you may find in doing that, is that you gain a few abv% on a smaller sample up front. This would also reduce the error we are seeing in your therm to less than a degree. But, if you note, in that chart I reference, 1 degree between 94-95 is worth 5% abv.

[Usge]

Seems most typical scenario is to run just your low wines. If anything is added, people will add to that the heads and tails they cut from the previous cutting run (not the foreshots that are thrown out, just the other parts you cut out) That would be after you've done at least one full cuts run.

Some seem to prefer to keep heads and tail cuts separate and run them by themselves in a reflux to make neutrals.

And dont' let punkin fool you. He's an expert all right. He knows a LOT. Its just...some things like flavor, or etc..can be more a personal, subjective thing. Its like asking someone whats my fav color. Some people don't like the flavor adding heads to their low-wines brings..so they might leave them out. etc., Its all according to taste really. But, since things typcially or commonly are done this way...you might as well try it that way first...at least to start. From there....it's all good.

[punkin]

And dont' let punkin fool you. He's an expert all right. He knows a LOT.

Dunno bout that.

Learning a lot more likely. I just tend to avoid answering questions from others, when the answers are stuff i've read. Here or elsewhere. There's enough of that goes on here already.

I prefer to talk about things i know. That i know from doing, thinking, learning from others and hands on understanding of what i'm doing. We all get our start from others info, but it needs to be more than learned from rote (like an alphabet) before it's ours to pass on...









HappyToHelpWhereICanPunkin

[Usge]

Well put Punkin.

Learning goes on. And the deepest understanding is by doing. But, I still think you are being a bit modest none-the-less. Nothing wrong with that my friend.