The Badmotivator Bain-Marie and Oak Barrel

[tjsc5f]

You can get 1/2"NPT (~3/4" holes size) stainless plugs on amazon for about $3.00 each, much cheaper than large stainless bolts.

[andystanton74]

You can get 1/2"NPT (~3/4" holes size) stainless plugs on amazon for about $3.00 each, much cheaper than large stainless bolts.

Yeah I saw those. Do you know how long the threaded part of those are? I have no idea if it's an issue but would it be an issue if only half the hole was taken up by the plug. There would be quite a bit raw wood expose to the alcohol and it would be able to track down the pores in the wood.

[tjsc5f]

I'm not sure how long they are. It's tapered though, so the deeper you drive it, the tighter it gets. If you can't get it deep enough for your liking, you could go up a drill size and try again.

[tjsc5f]

So I got one of the Badmo legacy infinity barrels with the 1-1/2" tri-clamp port welded into it.

Really like the idea, but they're extra spendy and the cork they sent was complete garbage (leaked from the get go and broke off in the port after one use).

There's been talk multiple times about stainless bolts and plugs instead of the wood bung. There's no doubt these will seal up initially, but has anyone inserted and removed a threaded fastener multiple times from the wooden head? Does it hold up and continue to seal well?

This got me thinking, what if you just threaded a tri-clamp adapter into the wood in the same location as the standard bung hole?

Functionally it would work, it would be a lot easier/cheaper than welding a port in, and you can use a PTFE gasket with a stainless cap and clamp to seal it up.
I think the only downside would be looks - I don't think it would look as good as the classic version.
Thoughts?

[subbrew]

I use a SS bolt on my Badmo clones and I have run them in and out with no problem I did have one leak from the initial fill but just coated it with beeswax and it sealed when I ran in back in.

[andystanton74]

I use a SS bolt on my Badmo clones and I have run them in and out with no problem I did have one leak from the initial fill but just coated it with beeswax and it sealed when I ran in back in.

What size bolt did you use and where did you get it?

[andystanton74]

So I got one of the Badmo legacy infinity barrels with the 1-1/2" tri-clamp port welded into it.
image.png
Really like the idea, but they're extra spendy and the cork they sent was complete garbage (leaked from the get go and broke off in the port after one use).
cork.JPG
There's been talk multiple times about stainless bolts and plugs instead of the wood bung. There's no doubt these will seal up initially, but has anyone inserted and removed a threaded fastener multiple times from the wooden head? Does it hold up and continue to seal well?

This got me thinking, what if you just threaded a tri-clamp adapter into the wood in the same location as the standard bung hole?
1.5x.75npt.jpg
Functionally it would work, it would be a lot easier/cheaper than welding a port in, and you can use a PTFE gasket with a stainless cap and clamp to seal it up.
I think the only downside would be looks - I don't think it would look as good as the classic version.
Thoughts?

I like the idea of the threaded tri clamp adapter. The only issue I see is the threading may not be long enough to take up the entire depth of the hole. If that happens it seems like there would be raw wood exposed the spirit that would track down the pores. I don't know if this would influence flavor negatively

[OtisT]

What's everyone's thoughts on alternative materials for the bung. I don't really want to spend the money on the equipment to taper a bung with a matching tapered hole. I have thought about using a stainless steel bolt but the bigger ones are harder to find and kind of expensive. I have also thought about threading in a 1/2 inch npt copper fitting and soldering a cap on it. There are also white silicone stoppers. Just curious what others are using.

I have the tools for making bungs but found that Stainless Steel Bolts work just fine and are much less work. I made a bunch of barrels using 7/16” x 2” bolts for the vent hole and 5/8” x 2” bolts for the fill hole. Next time I make more barrels, I will use a bigger bolt for the fill hole, likely 3/4” x 2”. Most of the stainless funnels I want to use for filling don’t fit all the way into the existing hole for the 5/8” bolts.

I got mine from a specialty hardware store, and I see them on Amazon.

[andystanton74]

What's everyone's thoughts on alternative materials for the bung. I don't really want to spend the money on the equipment to taper a bung with a matching tapered hole. I have thought about using a stainless steel bolt but the bigger ones are harder to find and kind of expensive. I have also thought about threading in a 1/2 inch npt copper fitting and soldering a cap on it. There are also white silicone stoppers. Just curious what others are using.

I have the tools for making bungs but found that Stainless Steel Bolts work just fine and are much less work. I made a bunch of barrels using 7/16” x 2” bolts for the vent hole and 5/8” x 2” bolts for the fill hole. Next time I make more barrels, I will use a bigger bolt for the fill hole, likely 3/4” x 2”. Most of the stainless funnels I want to use for filling don’t fit all the way into the existing hole for the 5/8” bolts.

I got mine from a specialty hardware store, and I see them on Amazon.

Ok cool. Do you by chance have a link. I seem to be having a hard time locating these types.of bolts.

[OtisT]

What's everyone's thoughts on alternative materials for the bung. I don't really want to spend the money on the equipment to taper a bung with a matching tapered hole. I have thought about using a stainless steel bolt but the bigger ones are harder to find and kind of expensive. I have also thought about threading in a 1/2 inch npt copper fitting and soldering a cap on it. There are also white silicone stoppers. Just curious what others are using.

I have the tools for making bungs but found that Stainless Steel Bolts work just fine and are much less work. I made a bunch of barrels using 7/16” x 2” bolts for the vent hole and 5/8” x 2” bolts for the fill hole. Next time I make more barrels, I will use a bigger bolt for the fill hole, likely 3/4” x 2”. Most of the stainless funnels I want to use for filling don’t fit all the way into the existing hole for the 5/8” bolts.

I got mine from a specialty hardware store, and I see them on Amazon.

Ok cool. Do you by chance have a link. I seem to be having a hard time locating these types.of bolts.

I opened Chrome and did a google search for “3/4" x 2" 304 stainless steel bolt hex” and got a handful of results. Marine Bolt came up first with 304 stainless bolts. The Amazon hit was for 316 stainless bolts, which is a better quality stainless but not required for this purpose. The 304 bolts were $3.85 each, while the 316 looks to be around $13 ea.

https://marineboltsupply.com/Type-304-S ... UgQAvD_BwE

[Beefer]

I use 12mm 316 stainless bolts in a 11mm drilled hole for mine. They cut their way in and seal up really well (a small coating of beeswax under the bolt head for insurance). In fact they seal so well that unless its a really hot day - an open tap is vapor locked which helps discourage me from taking sneaky samples while it ages. Filling is a slow pain in the ass though......... until you remember to open up the tap at the same time.

[andystanton74]

What's everyone's thoughts on alternative materials for the bung. I don't really want to spend the money on the equipment to taper a bung with a matching tapered hole. I have thought about using a stainless steel bolt but the bigger ones are harder to find and kind of expensive. I have also thought about threading in a 1/2 inch npt copper fitting and soldering a cap on it. There are also white silicone stoppers. Just curious what others are using.

I have the tools for making bungs but found that Stainless Steel Bolts work just fine and are much less work. I made a bunch of barrels using 7/16” x 2” bolts for the vent hole and 5/8” x 2” bolts for the fill hole. Next time I make more barrels, I will use a bigger bolt for the fill hole, likely 3/4” x 2”. Most of the stainless funnels I want to use for filling don’t fit all the way into the existing hole for the 5/8” bolts.

I got mine from a specialty hardware store, and I see them on Amazon.

Ok cool. Do you by chance have a link. I seem to be having a hard time locating these types.of bolts.

I opened Chrome and did a google search for “3/4" x 2" 304 stainless steel bolt hex” and got a handful of results. Marine Bolt came up first with 304 stainless bolts. The Amazon hit was for 316 stainless bolts, which is a better quality stainless but not required for this purpose. The 304 bolts were $3.85 each, while the 316 looks to be around $13 ea.


https://marineboltsupply.com/Type-304-S ... UgQAvD_BwE

Sweet thanks so much! Might be a silly question but would you drill a 3/4 inch hole to get this bolt to thread in tight?

[subbrew]

What size bolt did you use and where did you get it?

7/16th bolt and found it at tractor Supply

[OtisT]

I have the tools for making bungs but found that Stainless Steel Bolts work just fine and are much less work. I made a bunch of barrels using 7/16” x 2” bolts for the vent hole and 5/8” x 2” bolts for the fill hole. Next time I make more barrels, I will use a bigger bolt for the fill hole, likely 3/4” x 2”. Most of the stainless funnels I want to use for filling don’t fit all the way into the existing hole for the 5/8” bolts.

I got mine from a specialty hardware store, and I see them on Amazon.

Ok cool. Do you by chance have a link. I seem to be having a hard time locating these types.of bolts.

I opened Chrome and did a google search for “3/4" x 2" 304 stainless steel bolt hex” and got a handful of results. Marine Bolt came up first with 304 stainless bolts. The Amazon hit was for 316 stainless bolts, which is a better quality stainless but not required for this purpose. The 304 bolts were $3.85 each, while the 316 looks to be around $13 ea.


https://marineboltsupply.com/Type-304-S ... UgQAvD_BwE

Sweet thanks so much! Might be a silly question but would you drill a 3/4 inch hole to get this bolt to thread in tight?

Search for “Tap and Drill size chart”. A 3/4” bolt with #10 thread says to use a tap drill size of 21/32 or .6562. I don’t recall if I used the recommended drill hole size for mine, or if I stepped it up 1/64 or even 1/32 larger. I recommend you try the recommended tap drill size on a test board and see how it fits. I believe I did find the recommended tap drill size a bit tight and I went bigger, but I honestly don’t remember. It’s been a few years and a lot of drinks since I last had to make a new barrel. I’ll search my old notes (somewhere on HD) and if I find an exact answer I will share with you.

A few notes on drilling for these bolt holes:
* Be sure you clamp the wood and use a drill press if you have one so the hole is clean and square with no slop.
* Always drill a test hole in a piece of scrap wood first and test the bolt in it first to ensure it is a proper fit.
* Use a board back on your barrel head when drilling it so the wood does not break out on the back side when drilling.
* Be sure when screwing the bolt in the first time it is going straight in. Possibly use another thick board with a slightly bigger hole size drilled in it as a guide to hold the bolt square as you get it started.
* Every subsequent time you place that bolt, make sure it is going in straight. If it’s angle is off and you force it in too far at the off angle it will make your hole more sloppy and could lead to leaks.
* As a rule I use bees wax on the wood threads. I would put a few small bits of bees wax in the drilled and threaded hole then hit that with a micro torch for a few seconds to melt and spread the wax. Not sure if it’s needed, because I started off making them this way.

I’ve made dozens of these type of barrels with some used for three or four aging cycles and I have never had a thread leak.

[andystanton74]

Ok cool. Do you by chance have a link. I seem to be having a hard time locating these types.of bolts.

I opened Chrome and did a google search for “3/4" x 2" 304 stainless steel bolt hex” and got a handful of results. Marine Bolt came up first with 304 stainless bolts. The Amazon hit was for 316 stainless bolts, which is a better quality stainless but not required for this purpose. The 304 bolts were $3.85 each, while the 316 looks to be around $13 ea.


https://marineboltsupply.com/Type-304-S ... UgQAvD_BwE

Sweet thanks so much! Might be a silly question but would you drill a 3/4 inch hole to get this bolt to thread in tight?

Search for “Tap and Drill size chart”. A 3/4” bolt with #10 thread says to use a tap drill size of 21/32 or .6562. I don’t recall if I used the recommended drill hole size for mine, or if I stepped it up 1/64 or even 1/32 larger. I recommend you try the recommended tap drill size on a test board and see how it fits. I believe I did find the recommended tap drill size a bit tight and I went bigger, but I honestly don’t remember. It’s been a few years and a lot of drinks since I last had to make a new barrel. I’ll search my old notes (somewhere on HD) and if I find an exact answer I will share with you.

A few notes on drilling for these bolt holes:
* Be sure you clamp the wood and use a drill press if you have one so the hole is clean and square with no slop.
* Always drill a test hole in a piece of scrap wood first and test the bolt in it first to ensure it is a proper fit.
* Use a board back on your barrel head when drilling it so the wood does not break out on the back side when drilling.
* Be sure when screwing the bolt in the first time it is going straight in. Possibly use another thick board with a slightly bigger hole size drilled in it as a guide to hold the bolt square as you get it started.
* Every subsequent time you place that bolt, make sure it is going in straight. If it’s angle is off and you force it in too far at the off angle it will make your hole more sloppy and could lead to leaks.
* As a rule I use bees wax on the wood threads. I would put a few small bits of bees wax in the drilled and threaded hole then hit that with a micro torch for a few seconds to melt and spread the wax. Not sure if it’s needed, because I started off making them this way.

I’ve made dozens of these type of barrels with some used for three or four aging cycles and I have never had a thread leak.

Thanks so much for taking the time to respond!

[Soft batch]

Stainless Steel bolts - 3/8", which was the biggest the local HW store had. I used the same for both holes. I made a tiny funnel many years ago that worked for filling. I have no plan to open for several years - the harder it is to open, the less tempted I am!

[gexamb]

Hello everyone. Long time reader. I finally bought my fresh sawn 6/4 white oak QS and ready for weathering. I was also lucky enough to put in what looked like the last order of white oak available on the BadMo site for a quick head start.

Question on seasoning and orientation of stacking. Do they need to be stacked perfectly flat? And which of the two orientations attached is better?

I am in Los Angeles area, we don't get much rain around these parts except for this winter ironically. Should I water them every now and then? Cover temporarily to promote that mold growth while wet?

[howie]

is the grain ok on those for using on a barrel?
i assume you intend to make heads for a barrel.

[higgins]

Those are great looking QS boards.
I've made a dozen badmo clones with some previously aged qs white oak, but never aged it myself.
I would not worry about flatness - your individual pieces will be around 9" long after cutting to make head blanks.
I would stack them like in your last pic, or maybe on edge side by side, and I would hose them down for a few minutes every week that it doesn't rain.

[gexamb]

I am starting see some checking along the sides of the boards. I have them sitting on the edge like you mentioned Higgins. Is this normal and am I just being paranoid? It did rain this weekend.

[higgins]

Not sure what to tell you as I've never dealt with curing wood in such a dry climate. Do the bottom edges have checks too? If so then wet them down more often. In the states bordering Kentucky where a bunch of Stave Mills exist the humidity is much higher, and get 45-65 inches of rain per year so wood doesn't dry nearly as quickly as it would in LA. And they do stack them flat, so maybe that was a bad suggestion.

I think the checks develop in the medulliary rays, so as long as the checks are on the edge I think they should close up and seal when wet. If they are on the face they might seep a bit, but may still seal with barrel candy.

I have two I made with a thinner face and they do seep a bit thru the face in hot weather.

[andystanton74]

Ok cool. Do you by chance have a link. I seem to be having a hard time locating these types.of bolts.

I opened Chrome and did a google search for “3/4" x 2" 304 stainless steel bolt hex” and got a handful of results. Marine Bolt came up first with 304 stainless bolts. The Amazon hit was for 316 stainless bolts, which is a better quality stainless but not required for this purpose. The 304 bolts were $3.85 each, while the 316 looks to be around $13 ea.


https://marineboltsupply.com/Type-304-S ... UgQAvD_BwE

Sweet thanks so much! Might be a silly question but would you drill a 3/4 inch hole to get this bolt to thread in tight?

Search for “Tap and Drill size chart”. A 3/4” bolt with #10 thread says to use a tap drill size of 21/32 or .6562. I don’t recall if I used the recommended drill hole size for mine, or if I stepped it up 1/64 or even 1/32 larger. I recommend you try the recommended tap drill size on a test board and see how it fits. I believe I did find the recommended tap drill size a bit tight and I went bigger, but I honestly don’t remember. It’s been a few years and a lot of drinks since I last had to make a new barrel. I’ll search my old notes (somewhere on HD) and if I find an exact answer I will share with you.

A few notes on drilling for these bolt holes:
* Be sure you clamp the wood and use a drill press if you have one so the hole is clean and square with no slop.
* Always drill a test hole in a piece of scrap wood first and test the bolt in it first to ensure it is a proper fit.
* Use a board back on your barrel head when drilling it so the wood does not break out on the back side when drilling.
* Be sure when screwing the bolt in the first time it is going straight in. Possibly use another thick board with a slightly bigger hole size drilled in it as a guide to hold the bolt square as you get it started.
* Every subsequent time you place that bolt, make sure it is going in straight. If it’s angle is off and you force it in too far at the off angle it will make your hole more sloppy and could lead to leaks.
* As a rule I use bees wax on the wood threads. I would put a few small bits of bees wax in the drilled and threaded hole then hit that with a micro torch for a few seconds to melt and spread the wax. N. ot sure if it’s needed, because I started off making them this way.

I’ve made dozens of these type of barrels with some used for three or four aging cycles and I have never had a thread leak.

Made one. Thanks again for all your help

[Steve Broady]

Does anyone here have any experience reconditioning BadMo barrels, or reusing them as they age? I’ve got a few that are on their 3rd fill, and I can tell that they’re definitely not affecting the contents as quickly as when new. So far, I’ve tried to use that to my advantage, using them for things like rum that don’t really want new charred oak.

But eventually, I assume I will get to the point where I want to renew the wood. I’ve considered just adding some toasted or charred staves, effectively separating the paling from the aging. But I’ve also thought about popping the head out, renewing it, and pressing it back into place. How risky is that move?

[OtisT]

Does anyone here have any experience reconditioning BadMo barrels, or reusing them as they age? I’ve got a few that are on their 3rd fill, and I can tell that they’re definitely not affecting the contents as quickly as when new. So far, I’ve tried to use that to my advantage, using them for things like rum that don’t really want new charred oak.

But eventually, I assume I will get to the point where I want to renew the wood. I’ve considered just adding some toasted or charred staves, effectively separating the paling from the aging. But I’ve also thought about popping the head out, renewing it, and pressing it back into place. How risky is that move?

Like you, I frequently reuse a barrel multiple times. Mainly rum in used barrels, which is delicious. To speed things up I’ve put new-make in jars first with fresh sticks for a month or two before putting that spirit into a used barrel for aging. I got some really dark color and those turned out really nice the few times I did that.

I have no problems popping a head out and reinserting it. Not too risky if you are good working with your hands and have the basic tools. The air compressor method works great for popping the head out. I have not tried it with a head that is pinned, but I would think that would be no different after pulling the pins out. I suspect that the pin holes may need a little, and very gentle work with a ball peen hammer from the inside to take the high spot down before re-inserting and re- pinning. I’ve popped them out so that I could put a small piece of fruitwood inside before pressing it back in. I re-charred one and reused it. You need to be careful re-charring, not to burn the edge of the board so when you press it back in there is no leak. Have plenty of bees wax handy for gluing things again before reinserting. I typically scrape the wax off by hand then re-apply a thin layer to glue the head together again and I also put a thin coat the edge before re-inserting.

[jonnys_spirit]

Does anyone here have any experience reconditioning BadMo barrels, or reusing them as they age? I’ve got a few that are on their 3rd fill, and I can tell that they’re definitely not affecting the contents as quickly as when new. So far, I’ve tried to use that to my advantage, using them for things like rum that don’t really want new charred oak.

But eventually, I assume I will get to the point where I want to renew the wood. I’ve considered just adding some toasted or charred staves, effectively separating the paling from the aging. But I’ve also thought about popping the head out, renewing it, and pressing it back into place. How risky is that move?

Like you, I frequently reuse a barrel multiple times. Mainly rum in used barrels, which is delicious. To speed things up I’ve put new-make in jars first with fresh sticks for a month or two before putting that spirit into a used barrel for aging. I got some really dark color and those turned out really nice the few times I did that.

I have no problems popping a head out and reinserting it. Not too risky if you are good working with your hands and have the basic tools. The air compressor method works great for popping the head out. I have not tried it with a head that is pinned, but I would think that would be no different after pulling the pins out. I suspect that the pin holes may need a little, and very gentle work with a ball peen hammer from the inside to take the high spot down before re-inserting and re- pinning. I’ve popped them out so that I could put a small piece of fruitwood inside before pressing it back in. I re-charred one and reused it. You need to be careful re-charring, not to burn the edge of the board so when you press it back in there is no leak. Have plenty of bees wax handy for gluing things again before reinserting. I typically scrape the wax off by hand then re-apply a thin layer to glue the head together again and I also put a thin coat the edge before re-inserting.

I’ve got four badmo’s that are pretty well extracted. An 18mo grappa in one is smooth with just a hint of coloring. When I want fresh charred oak, barrel breathing, and general storage I’ll have a side jug with charred oak fingers and cycle some barrel contents through the jug/barrel. BadMo @ ~1.7g leads me to use 4-6 fingers depending and top up from jug to badmo to jug every couple months. I do the same with a 5g gibbs that’s a few years used now.

I filled one of the badmo’s with a chocolate raspberry port solera i’ve had going for about five years - adding different wines from each year and taking a bit out, fortifying with high proof brandy or grappa along the way to about 19/20%abv and back sweetening to taste. When I empty that, i think the port will impart a nice finish to something - maybe a bourbon

I won’t take the badmo apart to re-char. I like them as-is for finishing and storage.

Cheers,
j

[subbrew]

since many of us are using used barrels to either make fingers to put in jars or to make badmo clone heads we are already using "reused" wood. At least that first reuse seems to work ok. I scrape down to fresh wood and rechar or have also used the other side of the wood iin Badmo clones. I don't have long term experience yet but initial results are not showing much difference. So if using new wood I am confident you would have at least one scrape and rechar to do on a Badmo.

I personally don't think I will try a third use. Instead I will make a new head to press in. I figure one run of bourbon and then a run of rum per barrel and the wood will have given me all I can ask.

[Deplorable]

I dont know about the rest of you, but my first badmo (#238), after 26 months in the barrel I'm a little surprised at how light in color the spirit is.
Honestly, I think these little barrels are best suited for longer term aging if you are looking for a lot of Oak influence.
I suspect that the four I filled this season will be 3 to 4 year spirits. While this bourbon is very good, I think it's going to just keep getting better over the next year or two.

[OtisT]

I dont know about the rest of you, but my first badmo (#238), after 26 months in the barrel I'm a little surprised at how light in color the spirit is.
Honestly, I think these little barrels are best suited for longer term aging if you are looking for a lot of Oak influence.
I suspect that the four I filled this season will be 3 to 4 year spirits. While this bourbon is very good, I think it's going to just keep getting better over the next year or two.

I agree with you D. These are slow at aging compared to other barrels. They have about half the surface area to volume ratio as a 55 gallon barrel. That’s one reason why I sometimes soak my new make whiskey in a jar with new sticks for a spell before placing the spirit in a Badmo.

[ChristopherC]

I recently introduced a kit for those looking to rejuvenate their used barrels with fresh oak. The concept of aging in a jar prior to transferring to a neutral barrel is quite effective and an option I've played around with as well. As the oak becomes more neutral, the potential for extended aging periods increases. I have a few of Ben's barrels that have been aging for over 7 years, and they continue to impart wonderful flavors.

[ChristopherC]

OtisT raised a valid point regarding surface area. It’s often mentioned that the surface area of a Badmo barrel is about 50% that of a 53-gallon barrel, but this simplifies the situation. It's important to note that 53-gallon barrels are rarely filled to capacity. Given the circular shape of the barrel, the surface-to-volume ratio decreases significantly as the angel's share is taken into account. After the first year of aging, the discrepancy in surface area between the two types of barrels diminishes considerably. This adjustment in surface area is something that many oak barrel alternatives don't consider in their calculations.