beat sugar

[billjackson]

I was at costco the other day and saw they sell beat sugar for 40 cents a pound. any of you ever try using beat sugar in place of cane sugar? I pay 50 cents a pound for cane sugar

[Pesty]

beet sugar makes a nasty tasting drink from what ive read.

[billjackson]

Thanks! I can afford an extra 10 cents per pound!

[cranky]

There are a couple threads on that around here somewhere. I myself am happy to pay 50 cents a pound for cane sugar because it is GMO free and I am one of those anti GMO nuts C&H even sports the Non GMO project verified label now. I know there are a lot of people who don't give a second thought about sugar and I would be interested in a side by side comparison between the 2 sugars. Might be something worth looking into.

[Bushman]

The state of Washington grows a lot of beets for sugar produced in Idaho (we used to have a plant in Moses Lake). I believe that for nutritional value there is very little difference between cane and beet sugar. The process is different but I did find this information on the internet so if your using it for rum it may not be the best.

White beet sugar and white cane sugar are virtually identical in composition, but there may be very small differences (~0.05%) which some cooks find affects carmelization. Reportedly, cane sugar will carmelize better than beet sugar in many cases.

The bigger difference is when you look at brown sugars. In beet sugar, molasses is added after refining to make the brown sugar, as the molasses that comes from beet sugar is not fit for human consumption. Cane sugar is simply a less-refined product where the molasses has been left in the product. So when baking with beet brown sugar, often the molasses hasn't fully penetrated the sugar granules and "rubs off".

[cranky]

The state of Washington grows a lot of beets for sugar produced in Idaho (we used to have a plant in Moses Lake). I believe that for nutritional value there is very little difference between cane and beet sugar. The process is different but I did find this information on the internet so if your using it for rum it may not be the best.

White beet sugar and white cane sugar are virtually identical in composition, but there may be very small differences (~0.05%) which some cooks find affects carmelization. Reportedly, cane sugar will carmelize better than beet sugar in many cases.

The bigger difference is when you look at brown sugars. In beet sugar, molasses is added after refining to make the brown sugar, as the molasses that comes from beet sugar is not fit for human consumption. Cane sugar is simply a less-refined product where the molasses has been left in the product. So when baking with beet brown sugar, often the molasses hasn't fully penetrated the sugar granules and "rubs off".

In one of those other threads about this I actually posted where I found a test of the two and the difference is enough to matter. I think it was this one
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 40&t=40479
Beet molasses is considered unfit for human consumption and just plain nasty tasting. The difference in sugars is enough that you can't use beet sugar for candy and I think bakeries can't use it for cakes either. Small differences can be noticed in a wash and final product, my wife can tell the difference between beet and cane sugar without knowing she is even given beet sugar.

Rather than hashing through the argument all over again perhaps the best advice is to make up a wash of each and see if you feel the results justify the extra dollar or two you spend on cane sugar.

[cuginosgrizzo]

beet sugar makes a nasty tasting drink from what ive read.

in my little corner of the world 99% of sugar is beet sugar. It is universally used in bakery and all other standard usages for sugar. If you want cane sugar you can find it easily but it is more costly since sugar cane is not grown here.

I use cane sugar only in my rum, together with molasses. I use beet sugar in all other washes (sugarheads) and it performs wonderfully.

[billjackson]

Wow thanks guys! This is a damn good discussion! I haven't been able to sit down and hash things over with some guys like this in a long time! Thanks

[der wo]

beet sugar makes a nasty tasting drink from what ive read.

in my little corner of the world 99% of sugar is beet sugar.

Not only in your little corner behind the alps. In all Europe sugar is and was always beet sugar. It's 99.99...% saccharose, same as cane sugar. Do I really have to mention all the pies, cookies, desserts, ice creams and candies we have in Europe?
Perhaps side by side comparision solved in water you can taste a difference. But in a fermented sweetfeed?

[cranky]

According to EU commission on agriculture and rural development there are strict quotas on sugar production in the EU and they even import raw cane sugar for refining plus "the EU has become a net importer of sugar. Imports are mainly in the form of cane sugar for refining, from the African, Caribbean and Pacific states (ACP) and Least Developed Countries (LDC) which benefit from quota-free, duty-free access to the EU market."

In addition to this According to GMO Compass (a pro GMO website) "Approval for cultivation of GM sugar beet in the EU is being sought, but no commercial cultivation is currently planned. In the EU, sugar is at present exclusively produced from conventional sugar beet. " So perhaps the sugar you guys get isn't the same as we get in the US or maybe it actually is cane or a mixture.

[cranky]

It's 99.99...% saccharose, same as cane sugar.

The actual figure quoted by the industry is 99.95% and yes that 0.05% can have a significant effect just like small percentages of certain grains or other things can have an effect.

[der wo]

The actual figure quoted by the industry is 99.95% and yes that 0.05% can have a significant effect just like small percentages of certain grains or other things can have an effect.

When I buy cheap 1kg of sugar in a supermarket, it's 99.96 % sucrose and 0.04 % inverted sugar. Let's discuss the remaining 0.00%? I absolute do not care, if really some cane sugar is in there.
Yes, the EU imports sugar. It's raw sugar and is refined in the EU. It's mainly for the food industry I think. And they form glucose, inverted sugar, fructose... from it. Made from beet or cane, I don't know, I don't care

Edit: Saccharose in sucrose

[billjackson]

YIKES! Turned into a hostile sugar discussion!

[cranky]

Yes, the EU imports sugar. It's raw sugar and is refined in the EU. It's mainly for the food industry I think.

You mean things like pies, cookies, desserts, ice creams and candies?
very interesting
Seems I spend a lot of time arguing with you about pretty minor things. I know you are big on tests so here is an article about different sugars used in tests.
http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/SUGA ... 939081.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
It is clear there are significant differences in types of sugars whether you want to admit it or care. I don't really care what anybody else uses, I don't have to eat or drink it but my opinion is it's worth the extra 5cents a pound to get the good stuff.

[billjackson]

I'm with cranky! I can afford it. Plus with how much time and effort it all takes do you really want to piss around with saving a whole dollar?

[cranky]

YIKES! Turned into a hostile sugar discussion!

Yep you hit one of those hotly debated issues that I try to avoid but get sucked into. Like I said, if you are OK with GMO beet sugar try it and see if it is worth the small savings, I'll stick with the good stuff myself.

[billjackson]

well i would only save 10 cents so i'd have to use 10 pounds before i'd even save a dollar... doesn't seem like a good way to save a dollar to me

[Bushman]

I have not used the beet sugar so will not weigh in on it. My only interest was years ago when I was looking into craft licenses and the agricultural part and what % had to be from products from your state. The beets were grown in south central Washington and they had a factory in Moses Lake that processed it into sugar. That factory closed and the beets were shipped to Idaho for processing. I was curious at the time that if the beets were grown in Washington but processed in another state could it still count toward the % grown in Washington for Agricultural licensing.

[billjackson]

Oh that's very interesting! I am not sure...

[cuginosgrizzo]

Oh well.

I am with dw in this. We have been baking and preparing pies, cookies, desserts, ice creams and candies with beet sugar for centuries. And we still do so. Unless the recipe calls for cane, that is, like in the creme brulee topping. Cane sugar, imported cane sugar, is commonly found in supermarket shelves, and only in the brown type. No white cane sugar is commonly available around here, and brown beet sugar is not available, either. We get white beet and brown cane, that's it.

As for the side by side comparison, cranky, it does not prove that cane is the "good stuff" when we feed it to yeast with the sole purpose of creating ethanol from glucose...

oh, and our beet sugar is strictly non GMO.

[cranky]

As for the side by side comparison, cranky, it does not prove that cane is the "good stuff" when we feed it to yeast with the sole purpose of creating ethanol from glucose...

It may not prove it to you but the fact that in the US 95% of beet sugar is GMO and 0% of cane sugar is makes cane the "good stuff" and I'm not willing to even waste the time and money to test the difference.

oh, and our beet sugar is strictly non GMO.

Yes and no on that, Yes there are no GMO sugar beets being grown in Europe but they are allowed to import beet sugar from the US. However they do have strict GMO labeling requirements for that imported beet sugar.

I also noted in my first 2 posts that all these arguments have been previously addressed and there was really no need to do it once again.

[der wo]

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/SUGA ... 939081.php

This page is not reliable IMO. They compare dark beet sugar with light cane sugar for creme brulee, different granulation probably.
And:
"It's true that both kinds are sucrose, but only 99.95 percent, and that minuscule 0.05 percent -- made up of trace differences in minerals and proteins -- can have an effect."
German wikipedia says the remaining 99.96% sucrose and 0.04% is inverted sugar.
American wiki says 100g granulated sugar is 99.98g carbohydrates and 0,03g water (and a few mg calcium, iron, potassium...).

Yes, GMO is an argument. And it's good, you buy the good stuff. But in Europe it is not about 5 or 10c. The cheapest sugar in Germany is 0.65€ per kg. The cheapest white cane sugar 2.60€ per kg (ecological much higher of course). The people buy it mainly for cocktails, because it has a smaller granulation than the beet sugar.
In Europe ecological beet sugar is produced only for the food industry. Because many people here try to buy only "Bio"-food without preservatives, insecticides and other things. And to get the "Bio"-label everything has to follow those rules. But you cannot buy this sugar in a shop.

For me it's like discussing, if it is important for taste, if the calcium carbonate is from see shells or eggshells. Or if a car is faster with US-fuel or from the Arab Emirates.

[cranky]

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/SUGA ... 939081.php

This page is not reliable IMO. They compare dark beet sugar with light cane sugar for creme brulee, different granulation probably.
ndustry.

Would it help if I made up some charts and graphs?
Seriously, I think you misunderstood something, It looks like an apples to apples comparison to me, white sugar (both beet and cane) was used in the brulee the reference to the lighter and darker was about how they caramelized not the sugar used. The Beet sugar was much darker and burnt after Caramelization than the cane sugar.

[der wo]

Ok I see, I misunderstanded this. Sorry.
But it could be also another granulation. Or another water content. Or the website has commercial interests. Or simply need a story to place it in front of advertising. Anyway, a sugar which burns lighter tastes after fermentation better?

[cranky]

"It's true that both kinds are sucrose, but only 99.95 percent, and that minuscule 0.05 percent -- made up of trace differences in minerals and proteins -- can have an effect."
German wikipedia says the remaining 99.96% sucrose and 0.04% is inverted sugar.
American wiki says 100g granulated sugar is 99.98g carbohydrates and 0,03g water (and a few mg calcium, iron, potassium...).

How much of a bottle of Absinthe or gin is made up of something other than alcohol and water. Perhaps you can't taste subtle differences in 0.05% of something but others can. Wikies aren't necessarily all that accurate either, I take the sugar industry itself as more of an authority there. It is also naive to think it is even possible to get it to 100% purity with absolutely no variance. In fact Variances and impurities are both allowed and expected in any food manufacturing. In fact one sugar manufacturer was kind enough to post this analysis of a refined white sugar that meets the kind of specs you keep talking about.
Parameters
Colour (ICUMSA Units)under 45 by method 9

Polarisation : 99.8%
Minimum Moisture 0.05% Max
Reducing sugars: 0.04% Max
Glucose & Invert Sugars (mg): 112mg Max
Ash Content: 0.05% Max
Solubility: 99.99%
Sulphur dioxide (ppm): 15ppm Max
Yet they can make statements on the label that it is 99.96% sucrose because the government allows it.

[MichiganCornhusker]

Maybe Jimbo could help settle this.

Hey, Jimbo, which do you prefer in your bourbons, cane sugar or beet sugar?

BTW, Beat Sugar is a great name for a band.

[cranky]

Ok I see, I misunderstanded this. Sorry.
But it could be also another granulation. Or another water content. Or the website has commercial interests. Or simply need a story to place it in front of advertising.

You can make all the excuses you want and ignore the multiple tests and findings. You can also decide for yourself just like the OP can. I've given my reasons for using cane, everybody's taste is different.

Anyway, a sugar which burns lighter tastes after fermentation better?

Absolutely!!! Of course it does, why wouldn't it?

[der wo]

Ok, we can stop this. I think we both have no interest in doing something like two tpw, one with white cane, one with white beet sugar.

Peace?

[FullySilenced]

Don't think you will find any difference in the sugars but if you make rum from the molasses i have read it's horrid..

[cranky]

Ok, we can stop this. I think we both have no interest in doing something like two tpw, one with white cane, one with white beet sugar.

Peace?

Yep Peace