Blew up a brand new element!

[DBCFlash]

So I've been running a 5500W 240v hot tub element and had some great runs, but a couple of weeks ago my element blew out. I reckoned it was because I had a foaming issue with an all grain rye and I supposed the foam reached the element, it overheated and blew. Ordered a new one got it running and this time it blew running a sugarwash long before it reached boiling. I running a Uncle Jessies style controller and right before each one blew out I saw the amperage drop slightly and wander around a bit. First one blew out with a quiet puff of smoke, second one made a loud bang and let out a bunch of smoke, which ruined the wash in both situations.
These elements are supposed to be rated for 5500 Watts and That's right where they were when they let loose.
http://www.spaguts.com/Products/flo-thr ... gSelection" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Am I just pushing this thing too hard or is this simply a bad design? It worked great for dozens of runs prior to these.

I'd have to make a lot of changes to my set up to run a more conventional water heater element. I really like this design as it's low profile required just barely over a gallon to keep it covered in my 9 gallon pot, but if it's just going to keep blowing out it won't do me any good. There was over 8 gallons in the pot the last time it blew out.

[Euphoria]

Don't know why your element keeps blowing out, but, FWIW, I have both a 26 Gal. and a 13 Gal. boiler, both equipped with 5,500 watt 240 volt elements, (which would equate to about just under 23 amps at full load,) and I never need to run either one "wide open." I rarely ever go over 17 Amps during a run, and usually turn it down a tad when it comes up to heat. Perhaps it was being run too hard. I don't think that a 9 gallon boiler would need that much amperage to get your pot hot.

[RedwoodHillBilly]

By running that much power on that element with a smallish wash, are you generating large amounts of steam local to the element essentially dry firing it?

[DBCFlash]

It was nice to bring the pot up to temperature very quickly, and I reckon I just need to slow down some. I can't afford to keep replacing these things.

[StillerBoy]

So I've been running a 5500W 240v hot tub element and had some great runs, but a couple of weeks ago my element blew out.

From the link provided: Most heater elements go bad because of improper water chemistry, improper installation, and low water flow. To help you improve your water chemistry, we recommend to maintain water chemistry and keeping it balanced.

Whatever "Improper water chemistry" means, I personally would not use that type of element to run a boiler with.. I have used Camco element for the past six years, run every weekend, with no issues.. maybe it would be wise to change to an element that has provent itself in boilers use..

Mars

[Pikey]

So I've been running a 5500W 240v hot tub element and had some great runs, but a couple of weeks ago my element blew out.

From the link provided: Most heater elements go bad because of improper water chemistry, improper installation, and low water flow. To help you improve your water chemistry, we recommend to maintain water chemistry and keeping it balanced.

..............

Sounds like they KNOW they've got issues and making excuses before they get complaints !

+1 for "Turn it down" and also for "Get a different type"

[Edit - you say "Hot tub element" ? - wot for running a warm bath ? ? - Perhaps meant to run in a cooler situation and thus overheating in a "full - boil" situation ?]

[DBCFlash]

I was using their lower end 5500W unit. Maybe I'll bite the bullet and step up to the 5 year warranty one. Maybe I should add a resistor to my controller to limit full throttle to something a little lower amperage.
I'll give this element style one more try. Redesigning my pot is going to be a huge pain in the ass.
It just worked flawlessly for weeks. Frustrating!

[MichiganCornhusker]

How are you using that in your still?
Are the electrical lugs submerged in your boiler charge? Wires?

[DBCFlash]

My 240 volts always reads over 240, sometimes as high as 245 volts. That's probably the core of the problem. You'd think these things would be over-built just a little bit.

[DBCFlash]

How are you using that in your still?
Are the electrical lugs submerged in your boiler charge? Wires?

I drilled two holes in the bottom so the connections are safe and dry.

[MichiganCornhusker]

How are you using that in your still?
Are the electrical lugs submerged in your boiler charge? Wires?

I drilled two holes in the bottom so the connections are safe and dry.

Looks like that would put that thing very code to the bottom of your boiler, maybe even touching?

[DBCFlash]

How are you using that in your still?
Are the electrical lugs submerged in your boiler charge? Wires?

I drilled two holes in the bottom so the connections are safe and dry.

Looks like that would put that thing very code to the bottom of your boiler, maybe even touching?

No, it doesn't touch at all. There's about half an inch at it's closest point. It's designed to be installed like that.

[DBCFlash]

you say "Hot tub element" ? - wot for running a warm bath ? ? - Perhaps meant to run in a cooler situation and thus overheating in a "full - boil" situation ?]

First blow out was right at boiling, but this second one happened when the wash was only around 140 degrees F. That's well within the operating range of a hot tub heater. The more I think about it the more I suspect it's just my wonky voltage. I need to make this thing fool-proof as the majority of the time I'm going to be running it.
I'l order the "better" element and add a resistor to keep the amperage below max.

[shadylane]

The link said "The heater housing must be a Flo-Thru metal tube, at least 12 inches long, and at least 2.25 inches in diameter."
http://www.spaguts.com/Products/flo-thr ... gSelection" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Sounds like the heater needs water flow or it will over heat and fail

[Pikey]

PLease don't try limiting a 4.5 kw heater with a resistor you'll set fire to something putting a power resistor in that amperage !

You can use a power controller - but use one well over rated.

I don't think your minimam over voltage is the issue. It's the designed temperature range of the unit which is the problem and the cooling effect of the "water" being over stressed - imo.

I'm pretty sure they would refuse to honour the "warranty" too - I would !

Edit:
DO you have a link or picture ?

[StillerBoy]

My 240 volts always reads over 240, sometimes as high as 245 volts. That's probably the core of the problem. You'd think these things would be over-built just a little bit.

That small of a different in volts will not cause the problem.. my volt read from 236 to 247 on occasions, and had not had as issue with the elements.. the voltage different is due to how much energy is used on the line you are wired to outside..

Mars

[Pikey]

Power controller - You might just get away with this one and use it to drop the working power of the heater to say 60% ?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10000W-High-P ... rkt%3D1%26

[DBCFlash]

PLease don't try limiting a 4.5 kw heater with a resistor you'll set fire to something putting a power resistor in that amperage !

You can use a power controller - but use one well over rated.

I don't think your minimam over voltage is the issue. It's the designed temperature range of the unit which is the problem and the cooling effect of the "water" being over stressed - imo.

I'm pretty sure they would refuse to honour the "warranty" too - I would !

Edit:
DO you have a link or picture ?

Oh, I have a good controller. If I added a resistor it would be on the control side of the SSR in series with the variable resistor so it would limit the maximum power.


I don't see a dramatic difference in this element over those designed for water heaters that are more commonly used. None of them are "designed" to heat to the levels we use them. Water heaters aren't designed to boil anything, similar to hot tub elements. I'll order up their "better" one and limit the amperage and see if I can get this thing back to it's original reliability.

I have no intention of trying to call in the warranty

[Pikey]

My 240 volts always reads over 240, sometimes as high as 245 volts. That's probably the core of the problem. You'd think these things would be over-built just a little bit.

That small of a different in volts will not cause the problem.. my volt read from 236 to 247 on occasions, and had not had as issue with the elements.. the voltage different is due to how much energy is used on the line you are wired to outside..

Mars

In uk we used to be rated at 240 volts - but the "EU" is 220 - so they "standardised us" - so now we're 220 too ! - but with 10% "tolerance" - Is it any wonder we told them to piss off !

[MichiganCornhusker]

It's a damn shame you're having so much trouble with them, that looks like a pretty slick design for a boiler, keeping everything low for a minimal boiler charge.

[Pikey]

...........Oh, I have a good controller. If I added a resistor it would be on the control side of the SSR in series with the variable resistor so it would limit the maximum power......

...............
I have no intention of trying to call in the warranty

Oh that's a relief Flash - For one horrible moment there ...........

Yeah, I think if you just back it off a bit - better than taking it all to bits and making big adaptions

[DBCFlash]

It's a damn shame you're having so much trouble with them, that looks like a pretty slick design for a boiler, keeping everything low for a minimal boiler charge.

It worked perfectly for dozens of runs. I'll stop being pissed off shortly and get it running again. It takes two weeks to order a new element. BAH!

[DBCFlash]

In uk we used to be rated at 240 volts - but the "EU" is 220 - so they "standardised us" - so now we're 220 too ! - but with 10% "tolerance" - Is it any wonder we told them to piss off !

That's rotten. I guess you're just lucky they didn't force you to start driving on the wrong side of the road as well.

[acfixer69]

What are you calling "I running a Uncle Jessies style controller" from the OP.

AC

[DBCFlash]

What are you calling "I running a Uncle Jessies style controller" from the OP.

AC

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 50385//url
I built one of these. Very happy with it. I apologize for giving credit to Uncle Jessie as I think it was Crankys original post

[skow69]

From the link provided: Most heater elements go bad because of improper water chemistry, improper installation, and low water flow. To help you improve your water chemistry, we recommend to maintain water chemistry and keeping it balanced.

That sounds like a flaw you can't rectify. The element needs continuous flow to cool it. You have no water flow, so it is prone to overheating during heatup before the boil stirs things up. You can probably avoid it by running at lower power, but that kind of defeats the purpose of the high power element, doesn't it?

[GrassHopper]

There is a saying....."Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results". Albert Einstein
I use this one: https://www.amazon.com/Dernord-Immersio ... read+White" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[RedwoodHillBilly]

There is a saying....."Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results". Albert Einstein
+1
I use this one: https://www.amazon.com/Dernord-Immersio ... read+White" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
So do I, works great, although I've never dry fired it.

[DBCFlash]

There is a saying....."Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results". Albert Einstein
+1
I use this one: https://www.amazon.com/Dernord-Immersio ... read+White" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
So do I, works great, although I've never dry fired it.

Problem is that element would require me to completely reconfigure my pot. I had a hell of a time trying to get a simple nut welded to my column. Welding up the holes I have in the bottom of my pot and adding the bung for that controller would be a serious, if not impossible challenge for the chucklehead welders around here.

One more try with the hot tub element. More care when applying the power. It worked great for dozens of runs, there's no reason to think it wouldn't do dozens more.

[The Baker]

Get a gas ring?
Geoff