Element & Controller Suggestions for an 8 Gallon Boiler

[ElCubanazo]

Hello!

Currently I have a super cheap 5-gallon still that's trash. I want to upgrade to this 8-gallon with a port for a heating element soon.

https://moonshinedistiller.com/8-gallon ... purpose-2)

I'm planning on using this still in my apartment. I'm pretty sure the circuits in my apartment are 15amps and all the ports 120v but I'll check later when I get home. Assuming I'm right, I imagine the best heating element would be the Camco 1500W 120V model since it'll run at about 12 amps? That plus the screw-in adapter for the port on the still. If this assumption is wrong please correct me!

Also, I have no idea what controllers I should be looking at for this setup. Preferably one I could easily buy online and is affordable.

Thanks!
-El Cubanazo

[OtisT]

Hi elCubanizo. If your appt has a dryer hookup, you likely have a 220 circuit as well. I'm not recommending you go bigger, but just throwing this out there FYI.

IMHO, 1500 watts is plenty for an 8 gal boiler. If your boiler is not insulated now, doing so will make a noticeable difference. If waiting 90 min for a boil is unacceptable, then you may want more power.

FYI. I just ordered the controller kit from Still Dragon. I intend to use 220v, but I believe that same controller works on both 220 and 110. (You should verify with them if considering it). Not sure if that controller will work for you, but a few here on HD recommended it to me and the price seemed right. I also ordered an AC wafer fan and Volt meter for the kit.

Good luck. Otis.

[zapata]

(Assuming you're in the US, if not please specify)
If your stove is electric it is plugged into a 240v outlet, probably 40-50A. If your stove is gas, even better you probably have an unused 240v outlet. If you have laundry hookups, the drier outlet is 30A 240V. Easiest to just check the panel for any double breakers and figure out where they are from there.

If you really don't have any 240V outlets and want to safely maximise your power, test your actual "120" line voltage. It can vary from 110 to 120, and does make a difference. Check if your "120" breakers are 15 or 20 amps, will be stamped on the circuit breakers. Then calculate your maximum amps. Volts x Amps = watts. Maximum amperage for continuous use is 80% of the breakers rating. EG line voltage 120V x 20 A breaker x .80 = 1920 watts. Or 115V x 15A x .80 = 1380 watts max. (Which is why you should measure the V and check the breaker instead of just assuming you can run 1500w).
To safely max a breaker, make sure there are no other loads on the circuit, including "phantom" loads from appliances that are "off", dc chargers etc.

Personally I would feel ok at least trying a 2000w element on 120V and 20A breaker, its only 3% over the recommended 80% rule of thumb. Or you could build a controller with amp meter and just keep it under 16 Amps. Still dragon controller kit with the large box is the route I would go, with an ebay or amazon amp meter. There was a recent thread wiring it for 120V, and you'll be able to rewire in the future if you ever move somewhere with 240V.

The last thing to think about is ground fault protection to make it much harder to fry yourself in an accident. I personally refuse to run without GFCI protection. Hopefully you can use an existing gfci circuit which SHOULD be in any kitchen, bathroom or laundry room. If not, you can add gfci, which you will likely have to do if you find a 240v outlet.
*eta, posting simultaneous with Otis, apologies for redundancy.

[ElCubanazo]

Hi elCubanizo. If your appt has a dryer hookup, you likely have a 220 circuit as well. I'm not recommending you go bigger, but just throwing this out there FYI.

IMHO, 1500 watts is plenty for an 8 gal boiler. If your boiler is not insulated now, doing so will make a noticeable difference. If waiting 90 min for a boil is unacceptable, then you may want more power.

FYI. I just ordered the controller kit from Still Dragon. I intend to use 220v, but I believe that same controller works on both 220 and 110. (You should verify with them if considering it). Not sure if that controller will work for you, but a few here on HD recommended it to me and the price seemed right. I also ordered an AC wafer fan and Volt meter for the kit.

Good luck. Otis.

Hey Otis!

I do have a washer dryer unit, although if I have to unplug and replug the washer every time I want to distill then it's a no-go. I'd have to pull them back and forth to access the outlet.

90 minutes for a boil sounds fine to me. On my current, cheap still w/ cheap hot plate I'm pretty sure it takes around twice that time, if not more. What exactly counts as insulation? I imagine a blanket won't cut it haha.

These StillDragon kits look well-priced but I'm not sure about assembly. Is soldering involved? Is the additional AC wafer necessary?


Thanks Otis I really appreciate the help

(Assuming you're in the US, if not please specify)
If your stove is electric it is plugged into a 240v outlet, probably 40-50A. If your stove is gas, even better you probably have an unused 240v outlet. If you have laundry hookups, the drier outlet is 30A 240V. Easiest to just check the panel for any double breakers and figure out where they are from there.

If you really don't have any 240V outlets and want to safely maximise your power, test your actual "120" line voltage. It can vary from 110 to 120, and does make a difference. Check if your "120" breakers are 15 or 20 amps, will be stamped on the circuit breakers. Then calculate your maximum amps. Volts x Amps = watts. Maximum amperage for continuous use is 80% of the breakers rating. EG line voltage 120V x 20 A breaker x .80 = 1920 watts. Or 115V x 15A x .80 = 1380 watts max. (Which is why you should measure the V and check the breaker instead of just assuming you can run 1500w).
To safely max a breaker, make sure there are no other loads on the circuit, including "phantom" loads from appliances that are "off", dc chargers etc.

Personally I would feel ok at least trying a 2000w element on 120V and 20A breaker, its only 3% over the recommended 80% rule of thumb. Or you could build a controller with amp meter and just keep it under 16 Amps. Still dragon controller kit with the large box is the route I would go, with an ebay or amazon amp meter. There was a recent thread wiring it for 120V, and you'll be able to rewire in the future if you ever move somewhere with 240V.

The last thing to think about is ground fault protection to make it much harder to fry yourself in an accident. I personally refuse to run without GFCI protection. Hopefully you can use an existing gfci circuit which SHOULD be in any kitchen, bathroom or laundry room. If not, you can add gfci, which you will likely have to do if you find a 240v outlet.
*eta, posting simultaneous with Otis, apologies for redundancy.

Hey Zapata,

Yes I'm in the US. I have a gas stove so I'll check for the unused 240v outlet. 40-50A sounds nuts holy hell. What wattage of element should I get if I have access to it? Is the stove typically on its own circuit or is it grouped with the fridge and whatnot? If so would I have to unplug the fridge to run the still?

If accessing the 240v at the oven is too hard I'll check the breaker for any 20A 120V. I'll def test for 120v vs 110v as you said so I don't mess anything up with a 1500W. Any recommendations on a cheap and accurate voltmeter from amazon or something? If not I'll look it up.

If the 240v outlet isn't GFCI protected how will I know?

Thanks! Both of y'all have been extremely helpful.

[zapata]

I think stoves (and driers) are always on their own circuit. Yes, 40+ A is ridiculous power. I certainly wouldnt exceed 5500w anyway, and that only for heatup, so you'll def want a controller.
Re: easy access for either, you coud buy or wire up a short extension cord to not have to move the appliance to switch what is in use. Something like this should give you an idea. Wire up and plug in as an extension cord and just tuck it behind the dryer/range where you can still reach it or mount it temporarily to the wall.

cooper-1225_m.jpg (7.33 KiB) Viewed 4413 times

http://www.mrsupply.com/cooper-wiring-d ... 4-30r.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Gfci breakers can be identified by having test and reset buttons on them. It is highly unlikely you'll find a 240 gfci already in an apartment.

Z-2CKwfo5oy.JPG (15.13 KiB) Viewed 4413 times

If you really don't mind the heatup time and don't anticipate wanting to upgrade in the future then running on an existing 120V GFCI circuit will save a good bit of scratch. Any 240 GFCI solution is likely to be about $80- 150 in addition to everything else. Some people value simplicity, some cost, some time. Take your pick.

Blankets would actually be ok--ish for insulation, its not like there is an open flame to set them afire. Better would be something like a water heater blanket or reflectix. I've also used cheapo closed cell foam camping pads, under $10 @ walmart. Someone recently shared the tip to not run with the top of a potstill insulated and I filed it away as good advice. Of course you could insulate the top for heatup and remove it when the run starts.

[ElCubanazo]

If you really don't mind the heatup time and don't anticipate wanting to upgrade in the future then running on an existing 120V GFCI circuit will save a good bit of scratch. Any 240 GFCI solution is likely to be about $80- 150 in addition to everything else. Some people value simplicity, some cost, some time. Take your pick.

Looking at my breaker and playing with it earlier it seems every circuit in the apartment is 15A or 20A. There's one switch that's a pair of 30A but I have no idea what it's attached to. It's definitely not the stove or wash/dryer circuit. Could be the water heater which tenants don't have access to.

From what I've google neither the oven nor the wash/dryer outlets look like they're 240v. They all look like the rest of the outlets in the apartment which I assume are 120v as per the norm. Maybe I should buy a cheap voltmeter/amp/ohm off Amazon and verify?

So verdict is, looks like no matter what I only have access to a 20A circuit @ 120v (unless I'm mistaken). My best options are a 20A that runs only lights and outlets in our guest bathroom, or the 20A circuit that serves the wash/dryer stacked combo unit.

When y'all say we should unplug everything from the circuit except the still, does that include the light? If that's the case I'll just use the wash/dryer circuit then.

Also, thanks for the cell pad recommendation. They're cheap on Amazon too.

[Pesty]

Something else to look at is your dishwasher. I was looking in my panel and have a 20 amp dedicated 120 line that I attached an outlet to the front of the dishwasher using the lower panel to hide it from sight. Keeps everything in the kitchen and whe not in use you can't even tell it's there.
Just did a run yesterday with an 8 gallon boiler with a 4500w element using towels for insulation. Took about 80 minutes before i got the drips.

[NZChris]

For my 9 gallon boiler, I use two 1500W elements on separate circuits. That gives me 3000W for heatup, redundancy if an element blows, (that has only happened once in thirty years), and 750W if I need to run them in series if I smoke up the controller. I've never blown the controller, but I have done runs at a constant 750W just because I can and I couldn't be bothered fiddling about with heat control on the day.

[ElCubanazo]

Something else to look at is your dishwasher. I was looking in my panel and have a 20 amp dedicated 120 line that I attached an outlet to the front of the dishwasher using the lower panel to hide it from sight. Keeps everything in the kitchen and whe not in use you can't even tell it's there.
Just did a run yesterday with an 8 gallon boiler with a 4500w element using towels for insulation. Took about 80 minutes before i got the drips.

Hey thanks! I'll definitely take a peek. From what I understand all the stuff below the dishwasher is kinda freely wired as opposed to plugged into an outlet, correct? So I suppose that means you wired up the outlet yourself? Is that difficult at all? Also isn't a 4500W element too much for a 20A 120V circuit to handle? 80 minutes to drips sounds great.

I'll def take a peek at that although I'm not opposed to using the 20A 120V circuit from the combo wash/dryer since it isn't that far from the kitchen. Might need a short extension cord.

[zapata]

Elements designed for 240V can be run on 120V, with a resulting 1/4 the power. (And unrelated but beneficial, 1/4 the power density for less likely scorching)

4500W element on 240V = 1125 W on 120V
This is because both the voltage and amperage are halved, and V x A = Watts

My dishwasher plugs in to a standard wall outlet behind the machine, yours may be hardwired, I don't know. Apartments around here must be different from where you're at as I've never even heard of a 120V clothes drier, must be tiny or take hours to dry.

Are any of your circuits GFCI? Either with a reset button on the breaker like shown above, or a reset button on the outlet itself? A GFCI breaker protects everything on that circuit. With outlets, 1 gfci outlet can protect others on the same circuit, so you may just find 1 outlet with the reset buttons and have to test which other outlets it controls.

Something like this can be gotten at any hardware store for a few bucks to test outlet wiring and gfci function if you want to use an outlet you suspect is protexted by another gfci outlet.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000RUL2UU/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

No need for the tester if using a gfci circuit breaker or directly using a gfci outlet as they have a built in test button next to the reset button.

[ElCubanazo]

Elements designed for 240V can be run on 120V, with a resulting 1/4 the power. (And unrelated but beneficial, 1/4 the power density for less likely scorching)

4500W element on 240V = 1125 W on 120V
This is because both the voltage and amperage are halved, and V x A = Watts

My dishwasher plugs in to a standard wall outlet behind the machine, yours may be hardwired, I don't know. Apartments around here must be different from where you're at as I've never even heard of a 120V clothes drier, must be tiny or take hours to dry.

Are any of your circuits GFCI? Either with a reset button on the breaker like shown above, or a reset button on the outlet itself? A GFCI breaker protects everything on that circuit. With outlets, 1 gfci outlet can protect others on the same circuit, so you may just find 1 outlet with the reset buttons and have to test which other outlets it controls.

Something like this can be gotten at any hardware store for a few bucks to test outlet wiring and gfci function if you want to use an outlet you suspect is protexted by another gfci outlet.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000RUL2UU/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

No need for the tester if using a gfci circuit breaker or directly using a gfci outlet as they have a built in test button next to the reset button.

So, there's a gfci outlet next to the sink on a 20A circuit for our countertop island with literally nothing else plugged into the circuit. This seems like an ideal spot. It's a regular outlet so is it safe to assume it's a 110/120V?

Anyway, seems the 2000W 120V element is the way to go for this circuit. Now comes the part I have NO idea about: the controller.

I saw that you (Zapata) had recommended the Stilldragon one as Otis had. This seems super reasonable but I have neither a drill nor a soldering iron/device so I guess I'll have to buy a friend beer/pizza and have them help. Aside from the StillDragon controller, the element, and the screw-in adapter for the still, is there anything else I need?

Thanks Zapata and everyone. This has been quite helpful. Now I'll go hunt for the 120v Stilldragon guide....

[still_stirrin]

...there's a gfci outlet next to the sink on a 20A...It's a regular outlet so is it safe to assume it's a 110/120V?...Anyway, seems the 2000W 120V element is the way to go for this circuit...

Let's see.....2kW / 120V = 16.67amps. And in a 20 amp circuit that's 16.67 / 20 = 83.33%, probably safe for operation (continuously). But that means you can't add any more load to the circuit when you're running...and that includes even a water circulation pump. You're at the limit of safe operation with the 2kW element on a 20A circuit. But it is OK at that limit.
ss

[ElCubanazo]

...there's a gfci outlet next to the sink on a 20A...It's a regular outlet so is it safe to assume it's a 110/120V?...Anyway, seems the 2000W 120V element is the way to go for this circuit...

Let's see.....2kW / 120V = 16.67amps. And in a 20 amp circuit that's 16.67 / 20 = 83.33%, probably safe for operation (continuously). But that means you can't add any more load to the circuit when you're running...and that includes even a water circulation pump. You're at the limit of safe operation with the 2kW element on a 20A circuit. But it is OK at that limit.
ss

I'll make the water pump reach to another circuit if need be it's no problem! hahaha

Thanks SS!

[zapata]

Check the official guide, but I dont think soldering us needed for the controller. I know I soldered some, but that was a non-standard setup. You will need a drill for the vent holes.

[zapata]

You'll want a way to cover the element terminals. Stilldragon sells one, as does brewhardware.
http://stilldragon.com/index.php/element-guard-kit.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/2etc.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Some people diy something as simple as a pvc fitting siliconed on, either silicone self fusing tape or or caulk.

[ElCubanazo]

You'll want a way to cover the element terminals. Stilldragon sells one, as does brewhardware.
http://stilldragon.com/index.php/element-guard-kit.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/2etc.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Some people diy something as simple as a pvc fitting siliconed on, either silicone self fusing tape or or caulk.

Gotcha. Yeah that would be nice so I don't fry myself haha. So, element, controller, guard kit, and finally I'd imagine I'd need one of these to thread in the element?

https://moonshinedistiller.com/electric ... sion-plate" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Is this a complete list of things I need for this setup? Seems like 2 or 3 mini projects just to get started with this still haha.

[sltm1]

I have a 7 gallon boiler and I run a 5500w element on a 110 outlet. Takes 1.5 hours to heat up and runs a constant thin stream of liquor (maybe 1/2 the width of a pencil lead), which stops almost instantly if I turn off the power,.....good in case of emergency's and cheap to run. I'm getting a pint every 12 to 15 minutes. Easy-peasy!!

[ElCubanazo]

I have a 7 gallon boiler and I run a 5500w element on a 110 outlet. Takes 1.5 hours to heat up and runs a constant thin stream of liquor (maybe 1/2 the width of a pencil lead), which stops almost instantly if I turn off the power,.....good in case of emergency's and cheap to run. I'm getting a pint every 12 to 15 minutes. Easy-peasy!!

That sounds awesome! What controller are you using?

[sltm1]

No controller, just plug and play, remember when you run a 5500w element made for 240v on a 110v system, you're only producing 1375w , which is perfectly safe to run continuously without adjustment and happens to be perfect for mine and probably, your boiler.

[ElCubanazo]

No controller, just plug and play, remember when you run a 5500w element made for 240v on a 110v system, you're only producing 1375w , which is perfectly safe to run continuously without adjustment and happens to be perfect for mine and probably, your boiler.

OHHHHH. Hmmm. That actually sounds like a fine option.

What's great is that gives you the option to upgrade to 240v w/controller in the future if need be. Also sounds like it would be perfectly enough for me right now and much cheaper.

I imagine this is an element with a plug integrated into it? Did you have to get anything other than the element? Like perhaps the screw in adapter I linked earlier?

- El Cubanazo

¡Viva Cuba libre!

[sltm1]

No plug, yes, you have to get the coupling, the element has screw down connectors for the the wires, you'll have to come up with a male plug to attach to it. Here's a pic of mine. The sleeve on the coupling is made out of plumbing parts

[Pesty]

I built a controller using a 110 SRC off ebay that I bought over a year ago. Got an amp meter and light switch, and a 110 fan on the back to keep it all cool during the run. Wired it all up using plans from the mega electric thread and used 30 amp 125v plugs for the boiler connection.
Used a 2x1.5 reducing copper coupler, cut the back off of the male plug and it fit inside the coupler perfect and then slid over the welded 1" coupler on the boiler. The ground wire comes out the bottom and attached to the base ring of the boiler. used some set screws to hold it on. Could use a little silicone to keep it all nice and tidy but not necessary.

[sltm1]

Good call pesty, I forgot to mention grounding the element to the boiler !!!

[zapata]

You'll want a way to cover the element terminals. Stilldragon sells one, as does brewhardware.
http://stilldragon.com/index.php/element-guard-kit.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/2etc.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

So, element, controller, guard kit, and finally I'd imagine I'd need one of these to thread in the element?

https://moonshinedistiller.com/electric ... sion-plate" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

You don't need that plate from moonshinedistiller if you go with either SD or BH element guard kits.

[ElCubanazo]

You'll want a way to cover the element terminals. Stilldragon sells one, as does brewhardware.
http://stilldragon.com/index.php/element-guard-kit.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/2etc.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

So, element, controller, guard kit, and finally I'd imagine I'd need one of these to thread in the element?

https://moonshinedistiller.com/electric ... sion-plate" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

You don't need that plate from moonshinedistiller if you go with either SD or BH element guard kits.

No plug, yes, you have to get the coupling, the element has screw down connectors for the the wires, you'll have to come up with a male plug to attach to it. Here's a pic of mine. The sleeve on the coupling is made out of plumbing parts

Awesome thank y'all so much for guiding me through this. SO, if I get a 5500W/240v or 1500W/120v element, the guard from BH or SD, and a plug like this I'm good?
https://www.amazon.com/Whirlpool-W10278 ... 003DA62S8/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

And I def won't forget to put the green ground one on the kettle itself! haha

[zapata]

Probably. I don't see the gauge or rated amperage listed though and I would buy a plug with known wire gauge myself. The Q&A even has people asking and getting answers from 16-12 gauge. One customer image shows a 16 gauge cord, which is probably only rated for 12 A (your 1500w element would pull 12.5A).
I would use a 14 gauge wire for your usage. Like this one, rated for 15A (1,800 watts@120V).
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XQZFD36" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Or
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001OOMN88" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Or just get a 14/3 extension cord and cut to suit.

If you ever do want to go up to a 2,000 w element, I would use a 12 gauge cord. Which btw would work just fine now too. But make sure the plug on it is a 20A plug, you can buy 12 gauge wire with only a 15 amp plug. This would suit 2000 watts:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000BQU0V2/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[ElCubanazo]

Ordered all that stuff! Just came in today! Excited to set it all up!

[ElCubanazo]

Okay running it now without a controller. Seems okay but it's a little too fast for my taste for a spirit run. Maybe cause it's running without copper in the column but I'm thinking a 120v 15A controller would be nice with this setup.

First of all thanks to all of you that now I'm up and running.

Second, can I get away with a cheap controller here??? Something like this:
Hongville HV-FSC Variable Fan/Router Speed Controller for Duct and Hydroponics Inline Fans https://www.amazon.com/dp/B074D35YB8/re ... ZzbQZ89SEP" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Thanks y'all!

[BDF]

Second, can I get away with a cheap controller here??? Something like this:
Hongville HV-FSC Variable Fan/Router Speed Controller for Duct and Hydroponics Inline Fans https://www.amazon.com/dp/B074D35YB8/re ... ZzbQZ89SEP" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Thanks y'all!

Would like to know how this works out if you ever tried it.

[ElCubanazo]

Would like to know how this works out if you ever tried it.

Haven't bought it. From what I can tell it seems like it should work fine, but I don't know shit about electrical circuits/appliances.

Any input would be very much appreciated!