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Been doing a lot of reading and trying to sift through the theory and opinion has been just making me ask more questions. I am building a 4", 5 plate unit, I might add a packed section above that about 36" for neutral experiments. I have 5500 watts, hope that's enough, I can always add another heating element. For the PC i am planning a 3" section thats 16" long with 7 1/2" tubes and internal baffles. I'm thinking that will do it but feed back is always welcome. The RC is where the real conflict is in my brain I read where if you make it too big its hard to control. I am also looking at tube size and vapor speeds. From reading 4 or 5 inch is common but tube sizes are all over the place. I was thinking 5 to 7 3/4" tubes but frankly I am lost. Anyone have some real world feed back there?
thanks
B.S.

Big stogie . In normal operation a 4" Plated still will only be producing around 2 -3 liters / Hr tops . Push it harder and it will be starting to make nasty stuff .... tails pull through . So in reallity the PC you are building as absolutely overkill and some more . It will however easily handle that power if you want to use the still in pot mode for stripping or to just remove it and use it on its own for stripping . My shotty is smaller than that with no baffles and could handle over 25 Liters / hr easily and probably take more .

Regarding RC s . These are the tricky bit as you are aware . Bottom line is they will always be a finicky bitch to control and what ever size you make you will need a needle valve to control the coolant flow through it .

One of the main issues I found with mine was that initially I was giving the still too much power and the vapour speed was so fast that it would blast right through the RC and even with coolant really cold and running flat chat , the vapour just went straight through it . Adding scrubbers in the tubes slowed it a bit but not a majic bullet .
The thing was the RC was perfectly adiquate at 4" long with 7 3/4" tubes in ..... I was just running the still too hard . And this was evident because even when I slowed power to the point that the RC could handle it and a actually be able to work as a partial condenser , the product still tasted like crap due to me running too much power and pushing Tails through from start to finish due to entrainment .

So bottome line is that when we find the operating parameters for our still we realize that the typical RC sizes around 4-5" long with 5-8 tbes in them all work perfectly adiquate . Eitherway you will always need fine coolant flow control and pushing the power too high will cause smearing long before RC size matters

Yummyrum wrote:Big stogie . In normal operation a 4" Plated still will only be producing around 2 -3 liters / Hr tops . Push it harder and it will be starting to make nasty stuff .... tails pull through . So in reallity the PC you are building as absolutely overkill and some more . It will however easily handle that power if you want to use the still in pot mode for stripping or to just remove it and use it on its own for stripping . My shotty is smaller than that with no baffles and could handle over 25 Liters / hr easily and probably take more .

Regarding RC s . These are the tricky bit as you are aware . Bottom line is they will always be a finicky bitch to control and what ever size you make you will need a needle valve to control the coolant flow through it .

One of the main issues I found with mine was that initially I was giving the still too much power and the vapour speed was so fast that it would blast right through the RC and even with coolant really cold and running flat chat , the vapour just went straight through it . Adding scrubbers in the tubes slowed it a bit but not a majic bullet .
The thing was the RC was perfectly adiquate at 4" long with 7 3/4" tubes in ..... I was just running the still too hard . And this was evident because even when I slowed power to the point that the RC could handle it and a actually be able to work as a partial condenser , the product still tasted like crap due to me running too much power and pushing Tails through from start to finish due to entrainment .

So bottome line is that when we find the operating parameters for our still we realize that the typical RC sizes around 4-5" long with 5-8 tbes in them all work perfectly adiquate . Eitherway you will always need fine coolant flow control and pushing the power too high will cause smearing long before RC size matters

+1 to all of this....

I had the same RC issues at first.. and packed the tubes with copper scrubs to slow it up to little avail. For your still specs above, the 5500W element will probably be at least twice as much power as you will usually need running as a flute still. Having a good rheo (and maybe a meter for measuring power/voltage/whatever you choose) for power control is more important. The finer control you have the easier to dial in the power you want for the RC you have.

Ok that makes sense to me, so a needle valve ? I was looking at gate valves and 3 way valves I would like to hardline this so I need to find a needle valve I have not seen one. I know my PC is big but I am planning to drop a 4 foot packed section on top of the plates at some point or maybe just use that as a stripper/pot still. So I figured since I have the 3” tube and plates why not. As a side note on top of that PC I am going to add 6” of 3” with a removable screen to use as a gin basket all clamped together, I will start soldering next week I think
Thanks again

B.S.

Big Stogie wrote:.... so a needle valve ? I was looking at gate valves and 3 way valves I would like to hardline this so I need to find a needle valve I have not seen one.
B.S.

You should be able to find 1/2" needle valves no worries . Definitely forget using a Gate valve ...Ball valves are a nats dick better than a Gate valve but even though a Needle valve has around 5 full turns from open to closed you will hear that most including myself have it barely a 1/4 to 1/2 a turn from fully closed . Even with the benefit of multi turns and precision engineering you will find there is about a 1/64 of a turn between no output and more than you want .

Once you have found the critical setting on your needle valve ,its annoying when the phone rings and you want to put in full reflux while you aren't concentrating only to find afterwards that it takes another 15 minuates of shagging around to find the spot again . This is where many put a gate or ball valve across (or in parallel) with the needle valve so it can be quickly turned on or off to allow full reflux or quickly return to where you were taking off product again . A further refinement can be made by fitting a second gate or ball valve in series with the Needle ( and bypass Valve ) so that the flow to the RC can be quickly stopped ....this is useful if you want to run the Still in Pot still mode say for stripping off the tails after the hearts collection .

This is where a 3 way valve can be handy when used with a Needle valve as it can be configured to :

1 : stop all flow for Pot still mode
2 :route water through Needle valve for accurate product take off
3: Bypass the needle valve for Full Reflux

Here's my Needle valve with a Bypass valve for Full Reflux . I never Run my still in Pot mode so no second ball valve for me . Check out Salt Bush Bills Needle valve , his is a bit flasher than mine . You pays for what you get with them
Salt Bush Bills Old School Bubbler Build .....I just love the hardline cooling setup

Interestingly Salty's build used a " drop in RC " and he is also one of the few to run cool water in the top and warm out the bottom ...the way its technically ment to be done .Most of us just run cool in the bottom as it avoids air locks in the RC . That is why you will see a little air purging vent valve on the top near his cooling lines

Thanks Yummy, I like the bypass idea that is very smart. Looks like you have three lines going to the condenser? Have any pictures of the whole plumbing set up? Looking at Salt Bush Bills build and yours it is very evident that A. I need to rethink the cooling plumbing and B. I need a tube bender for that 1/2” copper

When I first started running my column I had the controls on the input side and the drain at the bottom of the condenser as shown in the picture above and I use 6 - 3/4 inch tubes 5 inches long. It did not work well and was very difficult to tune. So I packed the tubes with copper mesh to slow the vapor speed and replumbed the condenser itself. I routed the water into the condenser under full pressure and control the flow using a small gate valve on the outlet side of the condenser. I also put in a small bleeder valve at the top of the condenser to bleed out any trapped air that would affect cooling ability of the condenser. I discovered that dribbling the water going into the condenser and no control over the drain would cause trapped air in the condenser to make tuning difficult. After I did my change it would guarantee the chamber was always full and control it became very easy. Just something to think about.

Since the RC will be the highest point I had already planned a small air bleed that I could open to purge the system. I see them plumbed in both directions with the water flow going in at the exit of the condenser and some at the entry, exit seems correct tome but might be tougher to bleed the air from. We will see

I plumb mine to have the cool water entering at the exit side of the vapor path and exiting at the inlet side of the vapor to create a temperature gradient from entry thru exit in the vapor path. I need to take a picture since I am not too good at describing it.

Big Stogie wrote:Thanks Yummy, I like the bypass idea that is very smart. Looks like you have three lines going to the condenser? Have any pictures of the whole plumbing set up? Looking at Salt Bush Bills build and yours it is very evident that A. I need to rethink the cooling plumbing and B. I need a tube bender for that 1/2” copper

Hey Big Stogie . You see right . There are three ports on my RC . ...but one of them is capped . .
This is the back side pic of my plumbing . ( 1 meter packed column installed during photo )
Cool water enters the bottom of both condensers so that they are fully pressurized . The water exits via valves and combines before going back to my water tank . As mentioned , its not ideal to run the RC in reverse ...IE not counter flow but it works and it's how ...(And I'm pulling this figure out of my arse) ...about 95% of the stills I've seen do it .

Incidentally , the reason I have the third port and the interesting strip of copper on the other side is because I was kinda where you are and was over reading and over thinking and before I'd even made my still I'd made a fan-dangled adjustable height Reflux condenser that was going to fix all the issues I'd read before I'd even build my still . Then Salt Bush Bill offered me some simple advice ....something along the lines of ... " stop fuck'n around Yummy and build you bloody still " ...He was right ..still haven't bothered with the contraption .
But in the mean time it has given me some real world experience and iff'n down the track I do try it , I will know how the basics work and whether all the extra bollocks was worth the bother .

So my advice to you would be to stick 1/2" BSP screw connectors on your RC and PC . Have a play with various setups . Flexible Braided hoses are great to use while you work out what setup works best for you ...then hardline your setup when you are happy .

Nice contraption Yummy

Thanks Yummy, thought I had another thing to research I have a pretty solid plan n my head now, of course that’s likly going to change but we know how that goes, I did decide to add a gin basket so that’s going to get built. Hopefully I will get a thread going and post up some pictures soon,
B.S.