Sugar Recipe Question for Grayson

[Guest]

Grayson..I see that you "testify" often on sugar wash issues and before I proceed to my first batch (using Mile Hi Reflux ss 43" reflux head with copper mesh packing on 15.5 ss keg & propane heat) I thought I might confirm some of my thoughts on preparing my recipe.

My fermenter w/ airlock is 40 qt/ 30 liter +/- and I want to make a 25 liter wash with about 8kg sugar ( 2 10 lb bags = +/- 9kg) using either Alcotec 8 super turbo yeast or Alcotec 48...I am ok with 5 days +/- to ferment and I think this should yield +/- 20%abv sugar wash.

1st ? Are my facts on quantities above correct....and I dont have in front of me the exact amount of H2O to add ...( cant say that Ive ever seen a recipe written down for this seemingly common batch size)
2nd? Should I add a can of tomato paste as you seem to always suggest, and if so, help me understand how it will improve the process ?
3rd? Is there anything else I should add ??
4th? Assuming normal room temperature (about 72 deg F) in my house, should it take about 5 days to fement ?
5th? And this relates more to actually distilling...I see reference often to allowing still to reach equilibrium...ie allowing no product to pass...does this mean I should clamp or otherwise shutoff outflow hose to keep product from leaving the still ?? is there danger here in pressurizing the hose, etc....I have read and understand the temperature method of determinging equilibrium, just not sure about how to stop still from outflowing product ?

Any other thoughts or suggestions before fermenting my 1st sugar wash ? or distilling 1st batch ? It wont kill me if it doesnt work perfectly 1st time out, but I want to give it my best shot...

Thanks In Advance.

[runforthehills]

I posted the ? sorry forgot to log in...

Regards

[The Chemist]

Don't know about the recipe question, but please, NEVER "clamp or otherwise shutoff" the outflow hose. This leads to big bangs. Let the still come to equilibrium by heating very slowly. You can put more heat in at the beginning to approach boiling (careful not to burn), but when the reflux begins moving up the column (you should be able to feel this, carefully), let it take its own sweet time.

[Yttrium]

Well...on a reflux still, you should have two openings. One is the passage in which the distillate comes out, and the other is an opening to the outside at the top of your column condenser(if you have one). If you have an opening at the top of your column condenser, then yes, close up the outflow tube while the still is reaching equilibrium.

[The Chemist]

Point taken, Y-man. As long as SOMETHING's open.

[Guest]

Grayson..I see that you "testify" often on sugar wash issues and before I proceed to my first batch (using Mile Hi Reflux ss 43" reflux head with copper mesh packing on 15.5 ss keg & propane heat) I thought I might confirm some of my thoughts on preparing my recipe.

My fermenter w/ airlock is 40 qt/ 30 liter +/- and I want to make a 25 liter wash with about 8kg sugar ( 2 10 lb bags = +/- 9kg) using either Alcotec 8 super turbo yeast or Alcotec 48...I am ok with 5 days +/- to ferment and I think this should yield +/- 20%abv sugar wash.

1st ? Are my facts on quantities above correct....and I dont have in front of me the exact amount of H2O to add ...( cant say that Ive ever seen a recipe written down for this seemingly common batch size)
2nd? Should I add a can of tomato paste as you seem to always suggest, and if so, help me understand how it will improve the process ?
3rd? Is there anything else I should add ??
4th? Assuming normal room temperature (about 72 deg F) in my house, should it take about 5 days to fement ?
5th? And this relates more to actually distilling...I see reference often to allowing still to reach equilibrium...ie allowing no product to pass...does this mean I should clamp or otherwise shutoff outflow hose to keep product from leaving the still ?? is there danger here in pressurizing the hose, etc....I have read and understand the temperature method of determinging equilibrium, just not sure about how to stop still from outflowing product ?

Any other thoughts or suggestions before fermenting my 1st sugar wash ? or distilling 1st batch ? It wont kill me if it doesnt work perfectly 1st time out, but I want to give it my best shot...

Thanks In Advance.

1st-recipe for a simple sugar wash with turbo's will be on the packet of turbo's
2nd-no need to add tomato paste because the turbo package will contain the nutriant needed for the yeast.
3rd-nothing to add but the sugar, water and turbo's, simple hey
4th-It is highly unlikely that the wash will finish on time stated on the package. You should count on at least a week.
5th-to reach the equilibrium you basically want to condense all the vapour your heat is sending up the column and let it flow back down the packing. After 30-60 minutes the temperature at the top of the column will remain rock steady at some point below the boiling point of etho. This means that you now have sections or layers in your column containing differant compounds of your wash. This makes it easy to remove what you don't want because it will come over first after opening the valve.
Suggestion: Take a documentation of the entire run. Note times, temperatures and ABV test. It will really help you on future runs because you can refer back to your notes and see if everything is the same or if something is differant. After a few runs you will "know" your still and what it will do at what time and at what ABV.
I am not Grayson, just a knuklehead but see if that makes any sense

[knuklehead]

See, what did I tell you, knuklehead, forgot to log in,lol

[Guest]

Thanks for the replies...

I didnt think I needed to add anything else, but I see that Grayson always seems to say add a can of tomato paste ! .....maybe its superstition or perhaps he does not use turbo yeasts ??

As to opening at top of column condenser....are you referring to where the bung is inserted for the dig thermometer to be placed or another opening ??

[knuklehead]

That is not what I am referring to no. I am not familiar with the type of style you have or what it looks like but a reflux still should be able to run under full reflux meaning that it is producing vapour but nothing is coming out of the ouput. Do you have any pics of your still?

[knuklehead]

Just went to the Mile Hi website and now I know what you have. That is a through tube type of reflux still. I have never used on but I am sure there are some on here who do and will be able to better tell you how to reach and equilibrium in your column. My guess would be that you will need to divert, using a gate valve or something, all the cooling water to the through tubes in the column. Keep the water cold and moving to get the maximum amount of cooling you can. Then adjust your heat input just high enough so that as the vapour rises it gets knocked down by the cooling tubes and no condensate or vapour is exiting your ouput line. You do not want to block the ouput as your still also uses the ouput as a vent and blocking it will build up pressure. After the head temperature stablizes and has sat stead for a while, then you would redirect a portion of the cooling water to the water jacket condensor. Now the cooling in the column has been reduced and you will start to get vapour to the top of the column and over into the condensor where it will condense and drip out of your output tube and then, let the good times begin. Hope you are not using a plastic collection tube to dirct the distillant form the output tube to your vessel.

[Grayson_Stewart]

knucklehead said it all perfectly. His suggestion on documenting a run is really the best thing for learning the feel of your still. Even doing it over several runs...really makes the light bulb come on about certain things.

As for the tomato paste, I've tried it with a sugar wash while using a fresh turbo packet for the first time, but that was just to see if there was any difference. I couldn't tell that it did any better or worse, all the nutrients needed are in a package.

The only time you would really need to use tomato paste with turbo yeast is when trying to save from buying more turbo packs.. You are reuse the lees from a turbo/sugar wash to start another sugar wash. In this case you would need additional nutrients for the second wash and the tomato paste would provide that.

[Guest]

Thanks for the advice guys I greatly appreciate it !

[Guest]

Hey dude I got nearly the exact same still as you and I just used it for the first time. I think it is called an internal reflux still. To reach equilibrium I just had the cooling water cranked up as the still was heating up I could hear it boiling then I just gradually turned down the water until the thermometer started to rise. at this point the water was just barely on. you could smell the different chemicals coming off at different temps. at first it just smelled like my wash at the discharge pipe, then at like 60C it smelled like nail polish remover, the once it hit 78C exactly I got my first drops. the first 175mls was milky and I tossed it out. from the point on I was getting abput 250mls an hour and it was crystal clear and it was a fantastic product that we mixed with pepsi to drink and was really smooth. I would defintly not plug the end in any way! that pressure has to go somewhere and I think you could really casue an explosion that way.

I was wondering I hear about people checking the sg of there wash as it ferments but I was under the impression you were supposed to keep you fermenter airtight with an airlock whats the deal?