110v Double Check

[arentwejusthere]

Good Afternoon.

I wanted to come in here for some double checking. I've been reading about element controllers, and I'm looking at going the electric route. I don not have 220 access

I have singled out two 110v GFCI outlets for my use. Each of them is on a separate 20AMP circuit (I checked the breaker in the box, and it says 20A on it). I'm looking at going with 2 5500 ULWD elements in a 1/2 barrel SS keg. One of the elements will be "uncontrolled" and used to lower my heat up times.

I've been reading, and re-reading this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=62&t=17383

I'm having trouble answering the question of what SSR to go with to control the 1 element that will be controlled. Can I use the PSR-25? Does it care that it would be on a 110v 20A circuit? Any input you could provide would be appreciated. I figure I need to get the pot and heat source sorted out before I start building my columns (I'll have a separate shorter column for pot still runs after I learn to operate an LM Boka correctly).

Any help on the above is appreciated, and anything I might be missing feel free to point out. I'm considering using larger gauge wire that will handle 220v for the elements as well, for when it shows up years from now, but I also know that will add to the cost.

[Yonder]

Not going to heat much up that way. A 5500 watt element on a 110 circuit draws about 50 amps. Doubt your breaker box would like that.

[Yummyrum]

Yonder ,
The 5500w is rated when running on 220v . The current will be 25amps from a 220v curcuit .
The resistance of the element is 8.8ohms ..... this is a constant ... regardless of what voltage its connected to ( temperature coefficients ignored as relatively insignificant to the discussion )

When you run that same 8.8 ohm element on 110v it will draw 12.5 amps and dissipate only 1375watts .

Arentwejustthere,

You will usually have to halve the pot value if running on 110 v otherwise half the range ( degrees of rotation) will do nothing .

So if the PSR-25 uses a 500k pot on 220v , you will need to use a 250k pot on 110v.

[arentwejusthere]

The resistance of the element is 8.8ohms ..... this is a constant ... regardless of what voltage its connected to ( temperature coefficients ignored as relatively insignificant to the discussion )

When you run that same 8.8 ohm element on 110v it will draw 12.5 amps and dissipate only 1375watts .

That was my understanding. 1375 watts from each of the two 2500 watt elements when run on 110v, each drawing amps below what the breaker would be rated for (even at 80%). This is assuming they're not both running on 1 breaker, and nothing else is running on the respective breakers while the elements are running. The good news is we don't need to run the blender while I'm busy.

Arentwejustthere,

You will usually have to halve the pot value if running on 110 v otherwise half the range ( degrees of rotation) will do nothing .

So if the PSR-25 uses a 500k pot on 220v , you will need to use a 250k pot on 110v.

Makes perfect sense. it's meant to resist higher input. I'll replace the 550k pot with a 250 (this doesn't break the bank).

Thank you!

[NineInchNails]

Are you absolutely positive that you do not have access to 220V? Did you look in your breaker box to see if there are any unused slots? If there are then you can install a breaker very easily.

[shadylane]

2700W will work.

[arentwejusthere]

Are you absolutely positive that you do not have access to 220V? Did you look in your breaker box to see if there are any unused slots? If there are then you can install a breaker very easily.

Apartment living, unfortunately. Wouldn't I also have to run 10 AWG to an outlet if I put one in? I'm not on the first floor, and I can't come up with a good excuse to justify this to my super. I'll miss the heat up time, but to my understanding life won't be unbearable with two elements @ 110v on a 15 gallon boiler.

[Sunshineer]

All 220 is two hot 110 leads and one neutral this is 3 wire add a ground and you have 4 wire that smiple.

[still_stirrin]

All 220 is two hot 110 leads and one neutral this is 3 wire add a ground and you have 4 wire that smiple.

Well, not quite that simple. You’d need the two 110VAC circuits to be out of phase with each other to get 220VAC between them. Otherwise, you’d just have a direct short.

If the apartment has a breaker panel and it has 220VAC (for appliances like the electric stove and electric dryer) then a 220VAC breaker might work. Indeed, if connecting a 5.5kW element in a 220VAC circuit, you’d need at least a 30amp breaker. And with that, you’d need at least 10 gauge wiring, preferably 8 guage.

But the OP didn’t say there is 220VAC available.

arentwejusthere, if you want to “future proof” your controller, then choose the PSR-40 (rated for 40 amps) so if and when you do have access to 220VAC the SSR will still work. You’ll only need to replace the control potentiometer. Also, anticipating the higher current demand, I would use the heavier 10 gauge wiring and 30 amp twist lock connectors. It’ll cost more to build now, but you won’t have to rebuy and rebuild in the future. “buy once, cry once”. Just a suggestion.
ss

[still_stirrin]

Oh, and I will add....my boiler uses two 4.5kW/220VAC elements on separate 110VAC circuits, giving me roughly 2.2kW of heat input at full power (at 9.1 to 9.2 amps per circuit). As a result, it takes about 90-100 minutes to start producing from a 10 gallon distiller’s beer boiler charge. Low wines will come online in 60 minutes +/-.
ss

[RedwoodHillBilly]

You will usually have to halve the pot value if running on 110 v otherwise half the range ( degrees of rotation) will do nothing .

So if the PSR-25 uses a 500k pot on 220v , you will need to use a 250k pot on 110v.

I call BS. The RC circuit doesn't depend on the peak-peak voltage, it is a ratio that determines the start of the half wave. 120V or 240V or 480V will be the same. If you don't believe me, measure it on an oscilloscope and prove me wrong.

[shadylane]

I hate to tell Ya
But Yummy is right

[Oldvine Zin]

I hate to tell Ya
But Yummy is right

OVZ

[Sunshineer]

They will be out of phase just look in yout box 110 and 220 breakers connect to the same bus.

[arentwejusthere]

All 220 is two hot 110 leads and one neutral this is 3 wire add a ground and you have 4 wire that smiple.

And the larger AWG wire running to the outlet, yes?

Well, not quite that simple. You’d need the two 110VAC circuits to be out of phase with each other to get 220VAC between them. Otherwise, you’d just have a direct short.

If the apartment has a breaker panel and it has 220VAC (for appliances like the electric stove and electric dryer) then a 220VAC breaker might work. Indeed, if connecting a 5.5kW element in a 220VAC circuit, you’d need at least a 30amp breaker. And with that, you’d need at least 10 gauge wiring, preferably 8 guage.

But the OP didn’t say there is 220VAC available.

I was hoping 220v was available. I'm not above unplugging a dryer for a while, but we're all gas appliances. Both our dryer and stove are running off of 110v 20a circuits. And while I'm not entirely against dropping a new breaker in the box I have two problems, the biggest being safety. The other problem I have is fish taping larger AWG wire up to our apartment, and then explaining that to my super. Some day he'd notice. I don't own the place.

Oh, and I will add....my boiler uses two 4.5kW/220VAC elements on separate 110VAC circuits, giving me roughly 2.2kW of heat input at full power (at 9.1 to 9.2 amps per circuit). As a result, it takes about 90-100 minutes to start producing from a 10 gallon distiller’s beer boiler charge. Low wines will come online in 60 minutes +/-.
ss

That's what I've read. And while it'd be awesome to heat up under 90 - 100 minutes, right now that isn't in the cards for me, it seems.

I also plan to insulate my boiler and column pretty heavily, to help with this. In the end my goal is to produce whisky and brandy, but for now I'm strongly considering a bokka to "learn the running ropes" with neutral before complicating things with blending cuts.

Also: I'm really appreciating everyone's help and advice!

[Yummyrum]

You will usually have to halve the pot value if running on 110 v otherwise half the range ( degrees of rotation) will do nothing .

So if the PSR-25 uses a 500k pot on 220v , you will need to use a 250k pot on 110v.

I call BS. The RC circuit doesn't depend on the peak-peak voltage, it is a ratio that determines the start of the half wave. 120V or 240V or 480V will be the same. If you don't believe me, measure it on an oscilloscope and prove me wrong.

Redwood , you called me on this one and I have to say I fair call .
I am only regurgitating what I have read from both forum members over the years and IIRC manufacturers data sheets .
I don’t have 110v here as we only have 230 V ....so can’t say from personal experience ... how ever , I do have a CRO and a Variac and I like an experiment .

So you are right to call me on this and I hope to see for myself soon .
I hope I don’t have to eat humble pie

[arentwejusthere]

Looking forward to the results.

[Yummyrum]

Looking forward to the results.

Here you go
viewtopic.php?f=85&t=75372&p=7570630#p7570629

[arentwejusthere]

Excellent. Thank you for taking the time and energy (ha... hahah) to do this.

[Oldvine Zin]

Excellent work yummy I knew that the theory was correct but it's great to see it scoped out.

OVZ