Artisan Distilling course

[Canuckwoods]

I am thinking of taking the Artisan Distilling course at Niagara College and becoming a professional. Does anyone know about this course or similar is it worth doing or is it just a money grab from the college? Are there job prospects with this education? any information or thoughts are welcome.
https://www.canadianfoodandwineinstitut ... /#overview

Thanks

[HDNB]

i think most here would tell you, you are already enrolled in the best distilling university on the planet when you joined us here.

That said, if you are looking to buy "credentials" it may be worth your money if you think it will help your plan.

i would consider getting educated on the equipment you want to buy...for example if you think istill is the way to go, enroll in one of his clinics and learn the equipment you are going to buy.

what i mean is why take flight training on a cessna if you are going to buy a beechcraft...

what we do here really is not that complex. literally you can learn it in a weekend. the catch is that it will take you a lifetime to master, even if you spend 20 grand and a year in "school", it will still take a lifetime of practice...in 20 years you can become an overnight success!

[pope]

literally you can learn it in a weekend. the catch is that it will take you a lifetime to master

Isn’t that the truth?? I knew more about distilling on day 10 than I do today.

[jog666]

I dont have a clue about "normal" colleges as I went the votech way & looking back at that now, It is by far the wrong way to learn. So much info was crammed into such short classes that once you got it, you were shipped off to the next class. Even talking with friends in my class & other classes, they were the same. If you wanted a stack of paper to your name when you go in for an interview, that was the school to goto.


A distilling school, I think its a waste unless you NEED that paper under your name. HDNB nailed it with: "i think most here would tell you, you are already enrolled in the best distilling university on the planet when you joined us here." We dont require payment around here. Hell, the whole site is free on the interwebz. The amount of knowledge here probably out weighs any schooling.

I just looked at the website, 1 year class!! That might not be to bad. IF your are wanting to do this 100% legal. I would have to get with as many people who took the class as possible just to get their opinions on it.

[Odin]

Canuck,

When we started setting up our training facility, and after having visited many other courses, we found that most of them are very procedural. For example they will tell you how to ferment ("Do X, then Y, then Z") or how to distill ("Do 1, then 2") or how to age ("Always use such-and-so barrels").

What I personally have always felt, is instead of explaining you how, it may be better to focus on the "why". With that as a starting point, we were able to create "toolkits" rather than "procedures to follow". Procedures help you make a gin or whiskey, but toolkits help you design and make YOUR gin or whiskey. Hope that makes sense.

A second point, and HDNB touches on it, has to do with what the aim of the course is. Is it distillery driven or still driven? I'd suggest you first learn about becoming a distiller, and then - when you know what equipment you want - dive into a manufacturer supplied course. Those courses should be focussed on you becoming the process operator of your still.

As a third point that was brought up, is that there is a lot to learn via HD, and I totally agree. But it is aimed at amateur distilling, not at professional distilling. And that limits the forum as your information source. A lot of the information you need, as a pro, is about zoning, and about an efficient workflow, and about accounting, about recipe development protocols, and (most of all) about marketing and selling. Even though some here went pro and may share their experiences, that's different from a class where there is (or should) an experts on these different fields available for you.

Regards, Odin.

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[Canuckwoods]

The problem is I can't walk into XYZ distillery and say I've been distilling in my basement hire me they want a piece of paper saying I'm not full of sh*t. I don't plan on opening my own distillery but even if I was I'm sure the bank would want the piece of paper also.
I'm just wondering if anyone knows anything about this course or one simular.

[cayars]

You could inquire to the school if they help with placements and ask for the name of the distilleries where people have been placed.
Make a phone call to those distilleries and ask them directly what they think of the program and how much value they place in the course.

Make phone calls other other local distilleries and ask the HR department the same questions about qualifications and the course and how they feel about it overall.

You should walk away from that exercise with more information then you'll likely get here.

[Windswept]

The problem is I can't walk into XYZ distillery and say I've been distilling in my basement hire me they want a piece of paper saying I'm not full of sh*t. I don't plan on opening my own distillery but even if I was I'm sure the bank would want the piece of paper also.
I'm just wondering if anyone knows anything about this course or one simular.

I think if you went into a distillery with an interest in learning distilling instead of just wanting any job and were able to carry on a semi-educated discussion on the subject you'd be head and shoulders above other potential candidates.

I work in an industry that's hard to gain experience without having done the job before. We get a lot of candidates that are "interested" in learning the skills required, but the ones we hire are the ones that have made an effort to learn on their own time and their own dime.

As far as getting a loan, I'd say that having worked as a distiller or in a distillery is worth more than a diploma. Again, I've hired people with practical experience in the area I need and no degree over people with a degree(s) (in one case a guy with a Phd). In that case, not being an arrogant prick goes a long way, but being willing to learn, hard working and the right mentality can be just as valuable (or more).

[HDNB]

The problem is I can't walk into XYZ distillery and say I've been distilling in my basement hire me they want a piece of paper saying I'm not full of sh*t. I don't plan on opening my own distillery but even if I was I'm sure the bank would want the piece of paper also.
I'm just wondering if anyone knows anything about this course or one simular.

I think if you went into a distillery with an interest in learning distilling instead of just wanting any job and were able to carry on a semi-educated discussion on the subject you'd be head and shoulders above other potential candidates.

I work in an industry that's hard to gain experience without having done the job before. We get a lot of candidates that are "interested" in learning the skills required, but the ones we hire are the ones that have made an effort to learn on their own time and their own dime.

As far as getting a loan, I'd say that having worked as a distiller or in a distillery is worth more than a diploma. Again, I've hired people with practical experience in the area I need and no degree over people with a degree(s) (in one case a guy with a Phd). In that case, not being an arrogant prick goes a long way, but being willing to learn, hard working and the right mentality can be just as valuable (or more).

lemme add to that...as to getting a loan, what you need is security and ability to repay with a track record of profitable operation. unless your "paper" is one that says you can practice medicine, a bank couldn't care less how smart you are. they are in charge of handing out umbrellas on sunny days....

[VLAGAVULVIN]

Dunno why, but i've read their site out... and you know what? The program looks "brain-refreshing", the domestic fees sound just funny / nothing... so, take a break or even some rest in your hectic life: for years, you've been looking at the front side of the moon... why wouldn't see its back surface? They both look better if well-known. I didn't like my student years... but now i know much better what i want. I'd go study something new if i had such an opportunity.

[pope]

~10k sounds pretty reasonable for the amount of education. That's 7500 USD? Not sure how much instruction you're getting for that but I'm imagining ten courses over 6 or so months would give you quite a lot of education. If you're looking at it as a future profession you only have to learn enough to save yourself the cost of your inputs for it to be financially worth it.. depending on the value you put on your time, it's not really a lot considering you'll spend a lot of that time here instead. As Vlaga said, then you can see it from both sides. And for commercial application you will find very little or none of this here:

- Establish and implement appropriate safety controls and processes throughout the production, packaging and distribution of spirits.

- Establish and manage relationships with consumers and community stakeholders to market spirits effectively.

- Comply with applicable provincial, federal and international regulatory and trade requirements to produce, package and distribute spirits safely and legally.

- Manage inventory, supplier relationships and the procurement of goods and services according industry best practices and financial and regulatory constraints.

[Twisted Brick]

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Admittedly, we're just amateur hobbyists without profitability consequences or accountability to authorities like the TTB, but like pope outlines, there's a helluva lot more to know about at distilleries that operate on a scale we can't even begin to approach for equipment, materials or processes.

Maybe take a local distillery guy to lunch and ask him to assess the program's course outlines for relevance. You said you want to become a professional, not open a distillery, so the curriculum may just cover a lot of what a prospective employer would want to see to invite you in.

[Canuckwoods]

I have met with three of the local distillers two are graduates of the program and do recommend it the other lost his distiller to the program to be an instructor and he also recommends it.
Toured the facility this morning and wow it's cool unfortunately there were no students there as they are on their break.

[pope]

Sounds like a solid investment of your time if you have the free time to invest.