Stripping run for peated whisky

[ats333]

Hello all,
I have done a lot of reading here, and made sure to do a lot of searching before asking my questions. There is SO much information on here, and if an article slipped through the cracks that had my answers, than I am sorry!

I am planning my very first distillation, and am wanting to make a very peaty whisky. I understand the reasoning behind a stripping run, but am wondering if it will take out too much of the smoky flavour I am after. I certainly don't have any experience in cutting, and am worried about doing that for the first time off of a one-and-done run. I was originally going to use 100% heavy peated malt, but am now thinking maybe a 50/50 mix with two row. Given my complete lack of practical experience (just all based off reading), would I still get my desired flavours from doing a stripping run first? If I did do a one-and-done, should I still just make my cuts based on taste/smell or would ABV be a better option? I know a lot of flavour is in the tails, so im still unsure how deep to go.
for my 35l boiler, I am planning on mashing 3kg of heavy peated Bairds and 3kg of two row, and using either red star bakers or nottingham ale yeast.
I live in Toronto, so although I use metric, all grain is still sold in imperial (for some reason) so I hope those conversions are right!
Im open to any advice or criticism!
Thanks so much everyone!

[still_stirrin]

Well, since it’s your very first run through your still, I would recommend NOT starting with a peated malt specialty like that. Start with a few simple Tried & True sugar washes (I like Rad’s All Bran) so you can learn and master the processes before investing in a peated single malt. Also, learn to make good (conservative) cuts. Train your senses first....experience is your friend.

When you’ve mastered it all, then progress to the scotch clone. As for your one & done vs strip + spirit question, I always recommend a strip + spirit run protocol through a potstill for the best flavors and cask strength spirit.

As many new distillers before you have asked, the experience gained through educated (reading the site) practical (starting with a T&T recipe and practice, practice, practice) experience is the most powerful lesson here. Trying to cut by the numbers won’t work either. So, make good notes of your evaluations as you learn with the T&T sugar washes. No quick, one size fits all, answer....sorry.

Good luck. Be safe. Be responsible. And be discrete.
ss

[seabass]

Are you familiar with making beer? If you're comfortable with the mashing and fermenting, then you'll probably be ok.

Definitely do the stripping run first. You won't have to worry about cuts and you can get an idea of the flavors coming across. The cuts aren't that scary once you get started on a spirit run. Just collect small amounts in jars and make your decisions the next day.

You'll still have a ton of flavor with a strip and spirit and it will be taste better.

[SaltyStaves]

I understand the reasoning behind a stripping run, but am wondering if it will take out too much of the smoky flavour I am after.

I would like to hear your reasoning, because I think many new distillers do not understand it. It is not simply about reducing volume.
The smokiest, peatiest whiskies you have ever tasted, were all double distilled at a minimum. They generally recycle their feints into the following distillation (spirit run) and that is a contributing factor to the peat retention, but they also strip all the alcohol out of the wash and keep collecting the peaty water after the alcohol is gone.
My last whisky was stripped until my low wines collection was 21% ABV. Feints from the previous whisky brought that up to 28% ABV for the spirit run.

Phenolic molecules have an affinity with water molecules. If you want them to make it into the collection vessel, then you need to push them over hard in the stripping run. Trying to do a slow 'One and done' is a good way to leave them behind in the pot. The low wines have a different ratio of water to alcohols (vs the wash), its this difference that allows the phenolic compounds to make it into the collection vessel during a slow spirit run. Concentrating (hopefully) in the late hearts.

I certainly don't have any experience in cutting, and am worried about doing that for the first time off of a one-and-done run.

You should be concerned. If you are trying to make a fine product from smeared congener soup, then you are going to need lots of experience and a little self-loathing.

I was originally going to use 100% heavy peated malt, but am now thinking maybe a 50/50 mix with two row.

You have to start somewhere, but you also have choices that expand your options. As a beer maker, one mash and ferment = one product. With distilling, you can blend to your hearts content and there is no rule that says you can't make low wines from a 100% peated barley and low wines from unpeated barley and then combine them in any ratios you like for a combined spirit run(s). Or double distill both separately and do cuts, then blend them in the 'barrel'. Or age them both separately and... You get the picture. It all comes down to your ambition and storage capacity (and patience).

You would learn more at the start by using 100% peated or unpeated. A 50/50 blend could pose more questions than answers. However, I'd say that is only true after you understand some basics like doing cuts as SS has said. You don't want to be investing time and money on something that might not show itself to be a failure till well down the road. Single malt is something that you generally don't drink white. It would be a shame to find out you've gone too far into the feints a few years later. Too late then. Something from Tried and True that you can enjoy (or choke down) immediately, will let you get your practice in.

for my 35l boiler, I am planning on mashing 3kg of heavy peated Bairds and 3kg of two row, and using either red star bakers or nottingham ale yeast.

This concerns me and you'll recall I mentioned it in your welcome thread. I have a 30L boiler and my average mash is around 15kg of barley. I keep some feints from the previous whisky for the spirit run and that nets me around 4L of cask strength new make, after cuts. Your 6kg without any previous feints, is going to be a lot of work for very little. Its going to be even harder to get a cut from it (even with experience). You may not want to hear it, but you need to up the capacity in every department. You can keep the boiler, but you really need to be filling it 3 or 4 times for stripping runs to make this worth your while.

[ats333]

Thank you all for your help.
Still_Stirrin, you make a great point. I will definitely start with a couple T&T recipes to learn the ropes a bit before I jump into an expensive grain bill.

Saltystaves, I understand the concern with my small setup, but as this is a new pass time for me, and would like to try it with the equipment I have. I got the Brewzilla for brewing beer (which I have been doing for years), and figured getting a potstill attachment as well would be a good introduction to this world. I am not looking to make massive quantities, I just want dip my toes, experiment, and have some fun. Once I get the hang of it, and nail down some recipes I like, then perhaps I will evolve my setup into something with a larger capacity.
you also make a great point about starting all in with one style of malt, to get a basis of flavours. I did this with my beer making. I am getting too excited and putting the cart before the horse recipe wise.
I will definitely be taking all of your advice and maybe doing some UJSSM or similar first in order to learn a bit.

[SaltyStaves]

I am not looking to make massive quantities, I just want dip my toes, experiment, and have some fun. Once I get the hang of it, and nail down some recipes I like, then perhaps I will evolve my setup into something with a larger capacity.

That is logical and sensible for almost any hobby, but its problematic with distilling.
No matter what scale of setup or type of still, the goal is to turn a large volume of mostly water, into a smaller volume of mostly alcohol and to give that alcohol character with no discernible fault.
With small volumes, you will find that challenging. I know from experience, because I wanted to practice on small volumes too. It hurt my results and I made some badly cut products.

Not saying it can't be done, but you'll out grow it quicker than you think.

[RedwoodHillBilly]

I am not looking to make massive quantities, I just want dip my toes, experiment, and have some fun. Once I get the hang of it, and nail down some recipes I like, then perhaps I will evolve my setup into something with a larger capacity.

That is logical and sensible for almost any hobby, but its problematic with distilling.
No matter what scale of setup or type of still, the goal is to turn a large volume of mostly water, into a smaller volume of mostly alcohol and to give that alcohol character with no discernible fault.
With small volumes, you will find that challenging. I know from experience, because I wanted to practice on small volumes too. It hurt my results and I made some badly cut products.

Not saying it can't be done, but you'll out grow it quicker than you think.

Amen brother, I've upgraded my capacity 4 times.

I would suggest to go twice the size that you think that you need. That should save you 1 or 2 upgrades.

[MartinCash]

With small volumes, you will find that challenging. I know from experience, because I wanted to practice on small volumes too. It hurt my results and I made some badly cut products.

Not saying it can't be done, but you'll out grow it quicker than you think.

This is very good advice. In my opinion, it's not so much the expense of an AG run but the amount of effort required. Essentially it's a very similar amount of effort to mash 6 kg of grain than 20. Trying small distillations also makes it very difficult to collect enough jars with enough product to learn cuts. It's relatively easy to find yourself disillusioned quite quickly at the sheer amount of effort required to produce a very small amount of product.

You see newcomers appear who've purchased massive stills, and I think this often results in similar situations (I spent all this money and I don't make good product) because they haven't learned the craft. There is a balance and a process like Salty & Seabass & still_stirrin are suggesting, which will make you good product you can learn the process from and start to drink relatively quickly. Then jump into AG whiskey to put away for a while. If you brew AG beer the step from sugarheads to AG is not that daunting.

I like Rad's All-Bran and the Deathwish Wheat Germ. UJSSM is also a good one to learn the process, as you can take it through 4-5 generations of sour mash before doing a spirit run.

[seabass]

I'll give a dissenting opinion. If you're set up for AG beer brewing and are comfortable with it, you should be comfortable building a recipe that matches your fermentation and stripping volume capacities at 1.06 gravity. Make whatever % peated malt wash you want but aimed at learning the most from the experiment. I can only say that I like peat flavor but don't like acrid iodine flavors, so I prefer more like 8-20% peated malt. Many people have different preferences than me though. Strip enough batches for a full boiler load on the spirit run and you'll have good results.

For me, that's about 44 gallons of wash stripped to about 11 gal low wines for spirit run. Doing this will make a massive difference in your final product. It will allow you to make better cuts.

[Hügelwilli]

Phenol molecules have an affinity with water molecules. If you want them to make it into the collection vessel, then you need to push them over hard in the stripping run. Trying to do a slow 'One and done' is a good way to leave them behind in the pot. The low wines have a different ratio of water to alcohols (vs the wash), its this difference that allows the phenol compounds to make it into the collection vessel during a slow spirit run. Concentrating (hopefully) in the late hearts.

I have information, that the opposite is true. Like almost all volatile compounds, also phenols are more volatile at low abv than at high abv. Here a diagram with the volatility of phenol at different abvs:

It means that the spirit run is the problem, not the stripping run. The phenols will be in the tails at the spirit run. So either go deeper into the tails (what isn't a good option perhaps) or use more peated malt, if you want more peat flavor.

[NZChris]

Unless you are absolutely sure that all build toxins have been cleaned out of the still, your first distillations should be cleaning runs, vinegar followed by a sacrificial alcohol run. Get it wrong and you won't be the first new distiller to spend a day on the crapper barfing into a bucket.

[shadylane]

I'll give a dissenting opinion. If you're set up for AG beer brewing and are comfortable with it, you should be comfortable building a recipe that matches your fermentation and stripping volume capacities at 1.06 gravity. Make whatever % peated malt wash you want but aimed at learning the most from the experiment. I can only say that I like peat flavor but don't like acrid iodine flavors, so I prefer more like 8-20% peated malt. Many people have different preferences than me though. Strip enough batches for a full boiler load on the spirit run and you'll have good results.

For me, that's about 44 gallons of wash stripped to about 11 gal low wines for spirit run. Doing this will make a massive difference in your final product. It will allow you to make better cuts.

Sounds like good advice to me

[ats333]

Seabass, I think you hit the nail on the head. I will make multiple washes, strip them, and charge the still with the low wines of all runs. Thanks for the advice! Also, you would say an OG of 1.06 is ideal?
Thanks for all the help everyone!

[seabass]

1.06 is ideal for keeping the yeast happy. If you go too much higher, you start stressing out yeast and have to worry about larger pitch rate and o2. Even with that, you'll get more fusels and other unwanted flavors and have less healthy yeast at the end if you want to harvest for the next batch.

Keep in mind that you're aiming for a very low FG, so mash long and low if you're boiling or aim as high as possible without denaturing beta amylase if you aren't boiling 152F. Low FG means the 1.06 SG wash will end up near 8%abv.