Column packing options?

[Solo83]

I mostly use pure stainless or copper scrubbers for reflux packing and have researched other options such as marbles, SS/copper saddles and raschig rings (sp?). Anyone use anything else? I'm curious about using SS chain mail in conjunction with scrubbers to hold it in place... seems like it would be easier to clean and dry.

[StillerBoy]

SS or copper scrubbies are good provided they very well compressed, otherwise they are of not much use as a reflux material for higher purity like 95%..

Lava rocks in the right size for column, like 3/16 - 1/4" for 2" or 1/4 - 5/16" for 3" will work very well.. as to the other material mention, not of much use as reflux material.. SPP are also good but costly, and are no better than properly size lava rocks..

Mars

[WithOrWithoutU2]

+1 to Stillerboy's advice.

Ceramic rings have been getting some interest as well. https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtop ... 17&t=77413

[Tummydoc]

I started with glass marbles because they were cheap, but 8 mm marbles were too big for a 2 inch column and I had poor efficiency. I now use 5 mm x 2 mm ceramic raschig rings and get much better performance. I ordered "stainless" scrubbers from China off Ebay, but they rusted when I tried to clean off any machining oil!! Clearly not pure stainless, fortunately they never made it into my column. I do have 2 rolls of copper mesh in my column for sulfur extraction in addition to the raschig rings. I think proper sized Lava rocks would work just as well, but you have to break them up into proper size yourself.

[Solo83]

Lava rocks in the right size for column, like 3/16 - 1/4" for 2" or 1/4 - 5/16" for 3" will work very well..

Sweet! I like this idea! Thanks! Would you trust sourcing these from a landscape supplier?

[v-child]

There's a cat on Ebay that sells the smaller lava rock (gravel). search for "small lava rock".

[zed255]

Along the lines of lava rock, I just thought of pumice stone. Very light weight and very high surface area. Haven't tried it but it could be worth experimenting with as packing.

[StillerBoy]

Would you trust sourcing these from a landscape supplier?

They should work.. select just the most pores ones.. I use the ones from BBQ 10 lbs bags, and 2 bags are needed to make 2L of small rocks.. reason is that only the most pores rocks are used..

Lava rocks are the best in my view, equal to SPP in performance, but much easier to clean, lighter, and easier to handle.. the issue with lava rocks is that they need to be size right, the most pores ones are used and need to be packed properly.. most people who use them are sized to large.. the best size I've found so far from experimentation is for 2" sized in the 3/16 - 1/4" size work best.. the main issue with the rocks is that they are not properly pack went packing the column.. once the lave rooks are poured in the column, the column needs to be juggled up and down so that the rocks can position themself properly, as the rocks are not perfectly round, they need to be juggled around as they can best fill in the space.. limiting the space between them is the trick to use them.. and I'm working on making a set of 1/8 - 3/16" size for the 2".. will see what the result will be.. the other issue with lava rocks is making them, as they take time to size them and round them off some, and most people don't want to take the time to do so..

Sizing 2L of lava rocks for a 2 x 36" column, will take about 10 -12 hrs, working them down to size using close face pliers to round them off some.. select the most pores rocks, break them some with a hanmer, then round and size them with pliers.. once a set is done, they last a few yrs, as my have been in use for the past 4 yrs and still very good..

The smaller the size are, the easier it is to get the column equilibrate in the semi flooded state, thereby giving a higher purity on a shorter column, like 34 - 36" column length vera a 48" plus column, and having to use less power for the same purity and take off rate..

Mars

Pores rocks from the bag

Rocks cracked up with hanmer

Rock sized up with pliers

[Solo83]

Thanks StillerBoy! I truly appreciate your detailed explanation and pics! I'll keep you posted down the road, for the time being ill likely stick to well packed scrubbies until I dial in everything. Its easy to jump the gun on tinkering but as a noob I want to lockdown some best practices/consistent data points before changing the variables. I'm definitely putting Lava rocks in my notes tho! Seems legit AF!

[Demy]

I have only used stainless steel scrubber and find them very comfortable, light and easy to clean. On the various types of porous rock I am afraid that they retain many unpleasant odors from the tails because they are not easily washable as they are porous. The newer alternative I believe are SPP.

[StillerBoy]

I have only used stainless steel scrubber and find them very comfortable, light and easy to clean.
Are you sure you are using ss scrubbies and not galvanized scrubbies..

On the various types of porous rock I am afraid that they retain many unpleasant odors from the tails because they are not easily washable as they are porous.
Many unfounded views of porous lave rocks..

The newer alternative I believe are SPP.
Why paid 10 times the cost and have the same results as lava rocks will..

Mar

[kimbodious]

I am happy using SS scrubbers. I have been using the same ones for years, with no rust.

[Demy]

I have only used stainless steel scrubber and find them very comfortable, light and easy to clean.
Are you sure you are using ss scrubbies and not galvanized scrubbies..

On the various types of porous rock I am afraid that they retain many unpleasant odors from the tails because they are not easily washable as they are porous.
Many unfounded views of porous lave rocks..

The newer alternative I believe are SPP.
Why paid 10 times the cost and have the same results as lava rocks will..

Mar

I'm pretty sure they're stainless, I'm not stupid, and they're also very cheap.

[StillerBoy]

I'm pretty sure they're stainless, I'm not stupid, and they're also very cheap.

The quote "I'm pretty sure they're stainless" certainly does not assure that they are stainless.. and that they were cheap, also would indicate that they are not 100% stainless..

Have you done a cheap to make sure that they are such..

And as to the other statement, don't get offenced by me asking since you have indicate by the reply that they weren't checked them out..

Mars

[Demy]

I'm pretty sure they're stainless, I'm not stupid, and they're also very cheap.

The quote "I'm pretty sure they're stainless" certainly does not assure that they are stainless.. and that they were cheap, also would indicate that they are not 100% stainless..

Have you done a cheap to make sure that they are such..

And as to the other statement, don't get offenced by me asking since you have indicate by the reply that they weren't checked them out..

Mars

I repeat, I'm sure they are stainless, I guarantee it. Here in Italy they are found everywhere and they are stainless steel, I have been using them for years now so I can speak quietly ... I certainly make sure that they are stainless in the packaging, I also assure you that here they are very cheap.Also where did you read that they have not been verified?

[StillerBoy]

Also where did you read that they have not been verified?

I asked if you had verified or checked that they were 100% ss.. just because it said so on the package does not make them so..

Being sure that they are does not make them so without having checked them out.. Do you know how to check ss scrubbies for being 100%..

Just asking as I'm not the one using them, but you believe what the package states, then that good..

Mars

[Solo83]

Also where did you read that they have not been verified?

I asked if you had verified or checked that they were 100% ss.. just because it said so on the package does not make them so..

Being sure that they are does not make them so without having checked them out.. Do you know how to check ss scrubbies for being 100%..

Just asking as I'm not the one using them, but you believe what the package states, then that good..

Mars

Instead of berating someone about something so trivial perhaps you could share how to check if they are truly SS. With the amount of time you've spent typing belittling remarks you Instead could have
A. Told them to search the old forums
B. Told them how to do it... (hold a magnet to them, if it sticks no good, if it doesn't its pure)
C. Said nothing
Its fine if you're impatient and don't want to repeat the same thing over and over, it's fine if you want to talk a little crap sometimes too but being condescending doesn't help further this craft. I know you have plenty of valuable input and experience and its your choice to share that as you will but you don't have to be so salty

[Twisted Brick]

Timely input, Mars. Indeed, buyers benefit from occasional reminders to be aware of cheap imitations as well as false packaging claims. How many HD members have bought and continue to buy a poorly designed still or heat source and wish another member had warned them not to?

[CopperFiend]

So, after all that handbag waving and childishness, shall we get back to the original questions? I am interested in the fact that lava rock can absorb flavours. This does make sense due to the fact that they can actually absorb all the way through the material (being so porous). Can they then release flavour when next used? Even if washed?

I am an SPP guy now so it wont affect me directly, just interested.

[Twisted Brick]

I seem to recall reading a number of threads here reporting that the off-tastes absorbed by porous lava rock during distilling can be removed by soaking/boiling between runs.

I’m a (real) stainless scrubbie guy now, so it won’t affect me directly, but it’s good to know.

[The Baker]

I seem to recall reading a number of threads here reporting that the off-tastes absorbed by porous lava rock during distilling can be removed by soaking/boiling between runs.
( ...)

Just thinking...
To run a little plain water between runs might have the same result?
With less effort...

Geoff

[v-child]

I started with stainless steel wool in my column and it performed well. I switched to lava rock and it performed better. Both SS and the lava rock would smell like the funky tails after the runs and could be rinsed in the column with water to clean. By the time I run in the column, most of the tails have been eliminated anyway. BTW, some stainless is magnetic.

[ShineonCrazyDiamond]

I am interested in the fact that lava rock can absorb flavours. This does make sense due to the fact that they can actually absorb all the way through the material (being so porous). Can they then release flavour when next used? Even if washed?

I have been using strictly lava rock for 3 years. I have never washed them, and I have no bad smells trapped in them. I do believe my process helps. 1) I don't run wash through them. I strip in pot still mode 3 times, and run only low wines through the lava rock. 2) As I only use my reflux for vodka, as soon as I taste tails sneaking through, I shut down my still immediately. Ain't no room for greediness in vodka.

They hold a permanent alcohol sting on the nose, but not funky.

[Demy]

Just to clarify without going further, I have well explained that I have been using them for years without problems and they are definitely made of stainless steel, I don't know how to repeat it more than that. I made it clear that I have been looking at both directions on the packaging and have been using them for many years and I think most of them understand, so maybe some people like to insist incorrectly (I don't understand why). Going back (rightfully) to the post, I read that some members had problems especially with expansive clay (both odor buildup and clay flaking over time) but I can't be sure, I've never used them personally. The scrubbers have the advantage of being light, easy to clean, easy to find (at least here), cheap (where I live), they are "self-supporting" without the need for a support to hold them. There are many options and all methods deserve attention and respect, it is up to us to decide which one to use.

[StillerBoy]

am interested in the fact that lava rock can absorb flavours. This does make sense due to the fact that they can actually absorb all the way through the material (being so porous). Can they then release flavour when next used? Even if washed?

A valid concern, but really unfounded, as lava rocks have been in use for many years.. as my present set has been in use for over 2.5 yrs now, used almost on a weekly bases, and have yet to experience any flavor retention doing low wine..

The issue with lava rocks are that they are not size properly, and in my experience, the smaller the better they work.. the other bonus of using lava rocks is that they are relatively easy to work them in a semi flooded state which improve considerably the purity and take off rate.. ( very similar in working them as working SPP)

Yes they do require some maintenance, very much the same as other packing material do.. I do a hot water soak after the run, then a few hot water rinse, and set them to dry out.. they retain no more flavor/smell than any of the material.. check the smell that a column has after a run even after a hot water wash..

SPP work well and carry a view that they are the best.. but properly sized lava rocks equal the SPP in performance and purity.. the reason SPP are seem to perform better is because of their small size, and the ability to operate in a semi flooded state.. but their weight and cost are not worth it in my experienced using them..

Glass marbles are a good packing material, if used in the smaller size such as 8 - 10mm, and for column reflux in hybrid mode, but not the best for high purity and take off rate..

SS scrubbies will work well provided they are well compressed and shaped for the column.. the down side to them is they are very hard to attain the same result from run to run.. and the difficult in remove them when packed tightly, especially if the column length section are longer than 12 - 14"..

Yes I'm an advocate of lava rocks and have experience in using many different packings as mention.. copper scrubbies are the less valuable packing material for high purity.. I'm well aware that people use them as packing material in ss column, but there are better ways of resolving the issue with ss column, simply by adding a copper sleeve inside, issue resolved and able to use and experiment with other material..

As this issue on packing has been done many time, here's a few link start the research if one is interested..

Mars

https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtop ... 8#p7590718

https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtop ... 15&t=79957

https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtop ... 17&t=79321

[Will Stilltry]

Hi all,
As a complete newbie, I have not been completely happy with the quality of the various SS and copper pot scrubbers that I have purchased. Even though one brand I bought stated bodly acroos the packaging that they were 100% stainless steel and survived a trial by being immersed in salt water for a week, they did not pass the anti-magnetic test and although I am spretty sure that some stainless steel is magnetic (as someone I think, has already stated in this thread) they have left what looks like a rust stain in my wife's best kitchen colander that I used washing them out. Needless to say, my brownie points have taken a major hit!! The other thing that I really don't like is the fact that they tend to get tangled up together and end up as a big matted mess, needing cutting apart with scissors which leaves loads of bits all over the kitchen floor - more brownie points down the pan!!
Having spend a considerable amount of time reading this and various other threads about the pros and cons of various column packing material, i decided to look at using lava rock or pond filter media as packing and found something called 'Alfagrog' .
I am sure that I have not seen it mentioned anywhere before and wondered if anybody had seen it, heard of it, or tried it.

What is Alfagrog?

Alfagrog is a porous foamed ceramic material, which is lightweight, strong and inert.

It's high surface area makes it the natural choice for colonisation by micro organisms in biological filtration systems resulting in cleaner water.

Benefits of Alfagrog over other filter media:

Extremely high surface area
Highly porous
Inert, pH neutral
Lightweight
Available worldwide
Economical
A variety of grade sizes available: 25mm / 40mm / other sizes on request
Available in 15kg sacks, bulk bags, loose bulk - other packing options available on request

I'm not sure I really have the knowledge or experience to properly evaluate it but did think that at least the name was fairly apt!!
Maybe someone could advise me whether it would be worth trying, or if there is some glaring reason why it is a complete no no.

Any advice much appreciated.
Will

[zed255]

I just made a run using a sintered glass product called Siporax, which is a biological filter material. I have to experiment with it some, but so far it seems to work well.

[Prairiepiss]

People tend to forget that the first part of every run does a good job of cleaning the column. I mean you are running off the heads first. Which is going to do a pretty good job of cleaning out any residual tails. And since you are equalizing the column. Or at least you should be. Any of those tails will be pushed back down the column where they belong.

As for Lava rock. I see 2” and 3” columns mentioned for rock size. But nothing about a 4” column? I know Mash Rookie had some good success with a lava rock packed 4” column. I need to go find that thread. As I am considering a 4” column packed with lava rock.