Small reflux on pot-still gin ?

[Demy]

I recently improved my little pot-still to run gin, it contains max 4l but often I do only 1 liter, I created a small reflux on the lid to see how it behaves and seems to work ..... I ask you, someone Does some kind of partial reflux for its gin (botanical maceration)? What deflemmer configuration would be better in these cases? I would have thought of a water jacket in the top in a cm style (without any packaging) ... my thoughts are that with a small reflux maybe you could recover more product from a maceration, even if we look for the maximum flavor I think it could be interest ... Thanks for your attention

[8Ball]

On my 7 inch tall mini-gin pot, I included a 14 inch x 1” diameter riser, reduced to 1/2 inch diameter, all copper. I put a couple copper scrubbers in the bottom of the riser. Don’t know if I get any passive reflux, but I might.

[Demy]

On my 7 inch tall mini-gin pot, I included a 14 inch x 1” diameter riser, reduced to 1/2 inch diameter, all copper. I put a couple copper scrubbers in the bottom of the riser. Don’t know if I get any passive reflux, but I might.

Thank you 8Ball, I put water on the lid but it is a little controllable system. I would think of a simple reflux for a small boiler.

[howie]

i use a glassware set, that came with a 300mm vigreux column (a glass fractioning column)
the vigreux only seems to increase the ABV of the product, if there was any difference in taste, i couldn't tell.
i stopped using the vigreux some time ago.
i think more important in the boiler method is the T & T 400mm/litre (aka OEG)
having the luxury of a glass (leibig) condenser, i have noticed this happening to the vapour...
during the first 400mm collection, the vapour condenses in this pattern (sorry for sideways pics)

then about 400mm in, around 90C this happens, looks like oils(?)

[Demy]

i use a glassware set, that came with a 300mm vigreux column (a glass fractioning column)
the vigreux only seems to increase the ABV of the product, if there was any difference in taste, i couldn't tell.
i stopped using the vigreux some time ago.
i think more important in the boiler method is the T & T 400mm/litre (aka OEG)
having the luxury of a glass (leibig) condenser, i have noticed this happening to the vapour...
during the first 400mm collection, the vapour condenses in this pattern (sorry for sideways pics)
gin run with liebig 1 web.jpg

then about 400mm in, around 90C this happens, looks like oils(?)
gin run with leibig 2 web.jpg

It is nice to see something transparent ... I believe that a slight reflux could benefit from the product.

[Saltbush Bill]

my thoughts are that with a small reflux maybe you could recover more product from a maceration

I'm not sure that I understand why you think you will get more with forced reflux.
As long as you are using good clean neutral there is only so much booze there to get.

[Demy]

my thoughts are that with a small reflux maybe you could recover more product from a maceration

I'm not sure that I understand why you think you will get more with forced reflux.
As long as you are using good clean neutral there is only so much booze there to get.

Thank you, it was just my thoughts. I reflected about having a small reflux, I wanted an opinion / experience on this.

[NZChris]

My aim is to get the flavors into the collection jug, so I wouldn't want to interfere with that.

A possible good reason to have a dephlegmator might be if you want to turn the water on, after you have taken your gin cut, to recover the remaining alcohol.

[Saltbush Bill]

Thinking more on this....different flavours come through at different times of the run....hence different temps as well.
Id be wondering how reflux will or could affect how flavours come through....or if it might even stop some of them.
Without trying it your never going to really know.

[Yummyrum]

Demy , it kind of sounds a bit like using a Soxhlet extractor .
Extra time for solvent and botanicals to extract oils , but will the extra time due to refluxing be significant compared to the normal 24 hr soaking time . ?

Extra heat ?

Try it out Demy .

[Corsaire]

There are a few old genever and absinthe stills that have a small dephlegmator on top, so your idea is being used commercially.

The size of the ball and the absence of packing or plates has me wondering how effective it really is.

Here's a YouTube clip from an Amsterdam genever distillery


There's drawings and probably pictures of the egrot absinthe stills online too.

[Demy]

Thanks guys for the intervention. I usually get a lot of flavor from my mini pot-still ... sometimes too much, I run very tight cuts for which alcohol still remains (yes I know, I will recover them for the next run), so I thought of a Small reflux that would produce (in theory) a more delicate aroma to have a strong flavor, while you could disable for something delicate. Only the thoughts of a crazy ...!

[NZChris]

Absinthe rectifying balls.

https://web.archive.org/web/20120316092 ... ation.html

https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtop ... 16&t=29037

[Demy]

Absinthe rectifying balls.

https://web.archive.org/web/20120316092 ... ation.html

https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtop ... 16&t=29037

Thanks for the links, then the sphere would be a special of the refrigerated steam expansion area from the outside? I was thinking of a simple cm-style spiral deflemmer or something like it ..... after all then my idea was not so crazy!

[Corsaire]

I'd definitely go with a simpler cm dephleg.

Both that Dutch one and the French combier distillery that use the rectifying balls claim it changes taste, but I don't see anything like it in more modern setups.

Since you like to build stuff maybe give it a go and report back your findings?

[Demy]

I'd definitely go with a simpler cm dephleg.

Both that Dutch one and the French combier distillery that use the rectifying balls claim it changes taste, but I don't see anything like it in more modern setups.

Since you like to build stuff maybe give it a go and report back your findings?

Sooner or later I'll do it, I'm a little busy but it was what I wanted to do, I have a little pot-still by gin and experiment, I should make a video on construction and at the same time I thought about a hypothesis of reflux, that Small reflux on the lid I created seems to be well but the water dries quickly. Perhaps a passing tube would be enough for the old style column or a small jacket on top of the column.

[Corsaire]

I looked at old still designs again.

Your water cooled lid reminded me of the Pistorius design from 1817
https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pistori ... ennapparat

Today you can still buy alembics with a cooling lentil. They continuously ran a trickle of water over the big plates, and I've read accounts of people placing a damp rag on the lentils, and replenishing the water lost to evaporation.

All the figures I can find indicate they're not very efficient at refluxing, but they were an important step towards creating reflux stills.

I've got an alembic still. I think I may replicate these low reflux stills by wrapping the head with damp rags, and perhaps keep a continuous amount of water flow over it.

I don't think the results will be overwhelming though. I think there's a reason it's not widely used anymore, except for a distillery that's more renowned for the architect who designed it than the product they make. But who knows? I'm wrong a lot of times.

[NZChris]

I notice that the Absinthe distillers who have the reflux balls don't all use them and those that do don't necessarily use them for the entire run.

Sending late flavors back down to the boiler near the end of the run would help you squeeze more yield out of your distillation, but probably resulting in lighter flavors because you are diluting the flavors already in the receiver with the extra volume.

I usually take a cut after my gin run and add simple syrup to turn it into a liqueur that nobody ever gets to taste but me. It's not great, but I mostly do small gin runs so don't produce so much that I can't choke it down. If I packed the riser and put a cold finger at the top to use near the end, I imagine it would clean up my late cut quite a bit or let me cut later in the run.

[jonnys_spirit]

I added some reflux to my small gin still. Still experimenting with it but hadn’t thought of using it for gin.

Cheers!
-j

[TwoSheds]

Hey Jonnys, what size still is that and how do you like it? I'm thinking about getting an alembic for gin, probably 3 or 5 liter. (I already have a 3 and 16 gallon for production.)

Edit: I like your mods to it!

[jonnys_spirit]

TwoSheds - That's a 10l / 2.5 gallon alembic... I can do runs as small as a liter or two on the hotplate so it works for me doing small gin type runs. I have to experiment more with the reflux and packing but I was hoping to reflux small all-feints runs with it instead of building up feints stock to do a larger batch. 10l is a good size for test batches for me. If I do a full strip on my larger 16g boiler I can get about two small spirit runs out of the 10l size before going all-in on a large batch...

I've only done one test/cleaning reflux run on this and the packed section is probably too wide and not tall enough so I need to fine tune driving it but expect it can be useful for cleaning up some material..

Cheers!
-j

[Grundefuht]

On my 7 inch tall mini-gin pot, I included a 14 inch x 1” diameter riser, reduced to 1/2 inch diameter, all copper. I put a couple copper scrubbers in the bottom of the riser. Don’t know if I get any passive reflux, but I might.

As my calculations said your riser gives approx 30-40 Watts of cooling (it is not cooled by water, right?)
If heated by 1500Wt heater it will give about 0,6-0,8% Abv surplus at begining of distillation of low-spirits @27%Abv

[Demy]

779EA922-2C69-4FA1-AD80-A4EF5B3C270B.jpeg

I added some reflux to my small gin still. Still experimenting with it but hadn’t thought of using it for gin.

Cheers!
-j

Beautiful Jonnis, is the reflux system similar to a liebig or do I see badly?

[jonnys_spirit]

779EA922-2C69-4FA1-AD80-A4EF5B3C270B.jpeg

I added some reflux to my small gin still. Still experimenting with it but hadn’t thought of using it for gin.

Cheers!
-j

Beautiful Jonnis, is the reflux system similar to a liebig or do I see badly?

Hi Demy, Yes it's exactly like a vertical liebig. 1" over 3/4" but I also put some fairly loose copper mesh into that part of the vapor path to help heat transfer out to the water jacket area. That short section (about 5-6") can knock down all of the 1500W hot plate as reflux.

Cheers!
-j