Conundrum on Spirit Dilution

[Andrew_90]

I have Odin's Gin macerating which I need to run on Friday. The batch is just too small for my pot still.

Diluted down to 38% I should end up with 14l.
To just cover my element i require 8l.
At Odin's 400ml per liter this amounts to 5.64l leaving a safety factor of circa 350ml before the element runs dry, Way to close for comfort.

The one thing I am unclear about is if Odin dilutes his 43% maceration down before redistilling? Also at what point do I calculate the 400ml? At the 12l of 46% or at the 38% of 38%?

So either I don't take off 5.65l and waste some precious Gin.
or
I dilute down further to 34% get 15l (and a 1l safety factor, but I hear that leads to an insipid product.

Thoughts please.

[jonnys_spirit]

Dilute as needed (so you don't dry fire) and collect in fractions - blend fractions. Give yourself some headroom.

That would be my approach.

Cheers!
-j

[NZChris]

Odin is very clear about his method. If you don’t understand it, read it again. Don’t try to read into it things that aren’t there.

[still_stirrin]

I have Odin's Gin macerating which I need to run on Friday. The batch is just too small for my pot still.

Diluted down to 38% I should end up with 14l.
To just cover my element i require 8l.
At Odin's 400ml per liter this amounts to 5.64l leaving a safety factor of circa 350ml before the element runs dry, Way to close for comfort.

The one thing I am unclear about is if Odin dilutes his 43% maceration down before redistilling? Also at what point do I calculate the 400ml? At the 12l of 46% or at the 38% of 38%?

So either I don't take off 5.65l and waste some precious Gin.
or
I dilute down further to 34% get 15l (and a 1l safety factor, but I hear that leads to an insipid product.

Thoughts please.

You don’t have “the right tool for the job”. If your boiler is too big for the amount of wash you have to run, you either need to make a larger wash or get a smaller boiler. It’s quite simple, really. You’re trying to “push on a rope”, which it won’t turn out well.

Granted, you have a very fancy still that you labored building. It is quite admirable. But, often your questions point to the fact that you don’t do adequate research here. This “confounded question” is yet another example of such. You are not “prepared” adequately for the “tasks at hand”. And you come back asking the braintrust here to “bail you out”.

Bottomline, you need the right tools, be-it the correct boiler and heat source, the right recipe and processes, or enough knowledge and skills to accomplish your goal.
ss

[Andrew_90]

Odin is very clear about his method. If you don’t understand it, read it again. Don’t try to read into it things that aren’t there.

I have read it more than a dozen times.

Take one liter of macerated gin at 43% ABV and distill it. Now everything I have read on this forum tell me not to distill anything over 40% ABV as it is dangerous. Why is it a problem to seek clarification on this important point.

[Andrew_90]

I have Odin's Gin macerating which I need to run on Friday. The batch is just too small for my pot still.

Diluted down to 38% I should end up with 14l.
To just cover my element i require 8l.
At Odin's 400ml per liter this amounts to 5.64l leaving a safety factor of circa 350ml before the element runs dry, Way to close for comfort.

The one thing I am unclear about is if Odin dilutes his 43% maceration down before redistilling? Also at what point do I calculate the 400ml? At the 12l of 46% or at the 38% of 38%?

So either I don't take off 5.65l and waste some precious Gin.
or
I dilute down further to 34% get 15l (and a 1l safety factor, but I hear that leads to an insipid product.

Thoughts please.

You don’t have “the right tool for the job”. If your boiler is too big for the amount of wash you have to run, you either need to make a larger wash or get a smaller boiler. It’s quite simple, really. You’re trying to “push on a rope”, which it won’t turn out well.

Granted, you have a very fancy still that you labored building. It is quite admirable. But, often your questions point to the fact that you don’t do adequate research here. This “confounded question” is yet another example of such. You are not “prepared” adequately for the “tasks at hand”. And you come back asking the braintrust here to “bail you out”.

Bottomline, you need the right tools, be-it the correct boiler and heat source, the right recipe and processes, or enough knowledge and skills to accomplish your goal.
ss

The still you refer to is a 50l CCVM which clearly will not be used for the run. I have the 30l Pot Still that I am trying to use rather than doing three batches in my 6l pot still.

I am prepared for the task at hand and looking for no bailout. If you cannot appeal to a forum for assistance what is the purpose of the forum? More often than not I seek to know if my understanding of the matters that I research is correct. There are mountains of information that require digesting and often times one gets confused with all the information.

[Deplorable]

Can you access the inside of the boiler? Put in something to take up some space?

[NZChris]

Odin is very clear about his method. If you don’t understand it, read it again. Don’t try to read into it things that aren’t there.

I have read it more than a dozen times.

Take one liter of macerated gin at 43% ABV and distill it. Now everything I have read on this forum tell me not to distill anything over 40% ABV as it is dangerous. Why is it a problem to seek clarification on this important point.

I have never had a problem when following Odin's simple method. If you want to complicate it by doing something else, go for it.

[NZChris]

If the height of the element is unsuitable, heat from below, move the element, or use a more suitable still like the 6l one you have.

[Andrew_90]

@NZChris. So my question still remains, do you distill with 43% ABV in your boiler?

[Andrew_90]

I am going to use the 30l boiler but will operate it with my gas burner to take the element out of play.

Many thanks for all the responses.

[NZChris]

@NZChris. So my question still remains, do you distill with 43% ABV in your boiler?

Odin's method is here: https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtop ... 14&t=48668

[kimbodious]

Dilute the low wines. Run it and report back with your results so that we can all learn from it.

[Saltbush Bill]

rather than doing three batches in my 6l pot still.

A 4-5L batch in the small Still would have been my choice, a bigger batch is a lot to drink if you deiced you don't like it.

[Andrew_90]

@NZChris. So my question still remains, do you distill with 43% ABV in your boiler?

Odin's method is here: https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtop ... 14&t=48668

I am aware of where the recipe is, have read it enough times.

So to the letter of the law I will do the spirit run at 43% ABV using a gas flame. Seems to fly in the face of the safety advice of the forum.

I will stop flogging this dead horse.

[Yummyrum]

Man , just run it at 43% .

[Demy]

Another method is to insert something inside the boiler that makes volume, for example a small pot filled with water and covered, in this way the external liquid will rise in level.

[jonnys_spirit]

I've run it diluted below 43% (don't remember how low but maybe 30-35%??) - collected in fractions and blended to taste.. It was fine but arguably not T&T OEG to the letter...

Btw, Low Wines refers to the output of a strip run which you wouldn't want to use in an OEG. You use cut neutral (clean and proofed down to 43%) as your base spirit.

Cheers!
-jonny

[NZChris]

Another method is to insert something inside the boiler that makes volume, for example a small pot filled with water and covered, in this way the external liquid will rise in level.

Heat rises. Anything that obstructs convection currents may not work as well as you hoped it would. Check the temperature of the bottom of the boiler.

[The Baker]

Another method is to insert something inside the boiler that makes volume, for example a small pot filled with water and covered, in this way the external liquid will rise in level.

Heat rises. Anything that obstructs convection currents may not work as well as you hoped it would. Check the temperature of the bottom of the boiler.

Good point.

Sit Demy's space taker on a rack to keep it off the bottom and allow convection.

Geoff

[jonnys_spirit]

Or a brick or three? Sand? Pebbles?

Broken gin bottles - A message in spirit to the big producers!

Cheers,
jonny

[Andrew_90]

I've run it diluted below 43% (don't remember how low but maybe 30-35%??) - collected in fractions and blended to taste.. It was fine but arguably not T&T OEG to the letter...

I have since made contact with Odin and I quote, "But this is why the 43% is important. 43 and above makes sure all flavors are extracted during the maceration period. For ease of sake, I now extract at 60%. In all cases, I dilute to 30% before starting the run. That gives a nice and mellow gin. If you redistill at 43%, the outcome will be a drier gin."

I am glad to have that clarification.

Btw, Low Wines refers to the output of a strip run which you wouldn't want to use in an OEG. You use cut neutral (clean and proofed down to 43%) as your base spirit.

Thanks for pointing that out. Mine is indeed a neutral proofed down to 46% so base spirit it is.

Thanks

[Andrew_90]

Following on Odin's 30% dilution rate I can now dilute sufficiently to use the 30l keg with electric element.

Many thanks for all the input. All suggestions noted and stored in the memory banks.

[NZChris]

Keep an eye on the temperature at the base of the still towards the end of the run. If it is lower than above the element, you may be missing out on flavor and alcohol.

[Andrew_90]

Keep an eye on the temperature at the base of the still towards the end of the run. If it is lower than above the element, you may be missing out on flavor and alcohol.

Noted thanks Chris. The element housing gets real soft from annealing after a couple of runs. I gently bent the element towards the bas e of the boiler which should improve matters.

[Demy]

Another method is to insert something inside the boiler that makes volume, for example a small pot filled with water and covered, in this way the external liquid will rise in level.

Heat rises. Anything that obstructs convection currents may not work as well as you hoped it would. Check the temperature of the bottom of the boiler.

Certainly Chris, I meant relieved from the bottom, I should have specified that you're right ...

[Andrew_90]

I'm going nuts.

After my reflex run I diluted down to 46% (I know higher than the 43% for Odins gin) this was to fit it into 3 identical 4l bottles for maceration. The distillate was mixed up in one batch using distilled water to bring it down to 46%. The bottles were equally filled and then botanicals added. They we macerated for 13 days. I checked and rechecked the ABV

This morning I calculated that I would need 4 174ml to dilute 12 000ml @ 46% to 30%. The reality was that I ended up adding 6 000ml to get down to 30%.

So either my initial readings were incorrect or my latter readings were incorrect. I do numerous checks so I fail to see how that can be.

Any ideas.

[NZChris]

12,000ml at 46% needs to made up to 18,400ml to dilute it to 30%. Failure to allow for temperature at any point will result in errors.

You can't do this by simply adding 6,400ml. You have to either make it up to 18,400ml by adding as much water as it takes to get to 30% and 18,400ml, or by using TTB Table 6 to calculate how much water to add. There is an accurate online calculator that was linked to recently, but I didn't bookmark it as I find the TTB Table easy to use. A search should find it.

[Andrew_90]

Thanks,

I was using the linear calculator which is not close enough so that was my problem, lack of knowledge.

I have tried to use the tables to get to 6 400ml But I can't.

I have found an online calculator.

[Andrew_90]

Spent the day running Gin.

12l diluted to 18l at 30%
Nice slow run 800ml per hour.
Took off the regulation 4.8l as per Odin's recipe. This yield was at 80% ABV, higher than I anticipated.
Then decided to run deeper so took a further 4 fractions at 250ml each. 65 / 62 / 61 and 58% AVB respectfully.

Diluted two samples, the 80% and the final fraction the 58%. I was curious to see what the recipe was leaving behind.

Poured two identical drinks from each, each a double with ice and Tonic Water.

The latter of the two had some really nice notes and while I was considering discarding the last 4 fractions I decided to include these into my run due to the complex flavour's.

Very Tangerine forward but still most quaffable. I will cut back greatly on the Tangerine next time. Perhaps not for everyone and a lot of home town bias.