How to cut grape brandy?

[kero]

Hello.

I am new to distilling. I've made lots of wine and apple cider over the years. And last year I ended up with a stuck fermentation I couldn't get moving however hard I tried. It got stuck towards the very end. So it only has a tiny bit of sugar left in it but that still makes it undrinkable as wine. Since it has lots of alcohol (around 13% is my guess) and lots of grape flavor, I decided to distill it. That's why I bought the still in the first place. Maybe I'll go into other stuff after I get rid of this wine.

So from what I've read on this forum about cutting brandy is, it's a matter of taste. But can anyone maybe give me a rough idea to start with? When I mix a little bit of heads and tails in the hearts it would be good for aging, but not be very pleasant to drink at that moment right? I can only drink the very pure hearts right now. I water the %95 down to 40% and it is ok, it is drinkable. But not a great drink. So, any ideas and experiences on the subject?

[EricTheRed]

How much wine do you have?
What still?

Personally, i double pot still (with copper in the vapour path) all my brandies.
I take fairly wide cuts and age it on toasted and charred oak

when doing your final run, use a lot of little jars - depending on how much you have for wash - and take between 200 & 500 ml per jar
let them sit for 24 - 48 hours - then sample each - keep the ones you like

Search for Kiwi's guide to making cuts - very informative

[Bushman]

Making Cuts
Lots of different methods for aging or flavoring but all my aged product is a minimum 6 months and most over a year.

[Saltbush Bill]

I water the %95 down to 40% and it is ok,

It seems to me that to get 95% you must be running some kind of reflux still and using a lot of reflux. If that is the case you have probably stripped quite a bit if flavour out of the brandy already.
How to make cuts is hard to explain to a newby distiller. Its takes time and practice, we all have to learn it and most have done it the hard way....no real help.
IMO until you have some experience and your senses are becoming attuned to the different tastes and smells its easiest to just keep and drink the hearts.
As time goes on you can add a little heads or tails to see what effect that has.
Trying to blend something the first time around is sure to end in a spirit that you wont think a lot of.

[NZChris]

I've made a lot of brandy over the years, but I've never refluxed it to 95%. If I ever did, it would be to use it for base spirit for gin, ouzu, limoncello, etc..

I suggest that, in the future, you double pot distil it.

[Deplorable]

As previously stated at 95% there isn't much flavor left in he hearts and the heads and tails are highly compressed.
I'd suggest you keep your hearts cut and use it to fortify wine and make port.
I suppose if you have all of your cut jars and your pot ale, I'd throw it all back in the boiler and try a double pot distillation. I don't know if you'll get anything good out if though other than a lesson since it's already been heated to high temps. I've never tried.

[Demy]

Your abv looks high for a brandy, maybe you used too much reflux ... you can get a great brandy even with (little) reflux but you must know how to conduct the equipment otherwise the bare of the flavors. The cuts are difficult to explain at a distance, I have learned alone ... use your senses to establish the cuts (smell, flavor) and you will understand yourself how to proceed with the experience ... I personally make pretty tight cuts , I never keep something that has a smell that I don't like when comes out of the spout, this even though it will submit an aging. If you give us more information about the procedure you used maybe you might be more specific in your reply.

[kero]

Lots of good advice. Thank you all. I'll tell you more about what I use.

I have a detachable still. With a short column. I think it is called a pot still this way. The lower half the column has steel mesh wire in it and the upper other half has the copper coil for cooling. Then, I can add a higher column between this and the tank, which converts it into a reflux still with a lot of reflux. And there is a parrot on the end where the distillate comes from. In it sits the hydrometer so I can monitor the abv instantly and constantly.

Saying it is %95 was an error. It reads %95 in the parrot. But I guess it is because it is warm. And also because it captures the humidity of the air; in the end, when I measure it cooled down, the abv is much lower. Like %85-%90

What I did until now was; put the wine in the pot still. And when I ran 2 or 3 stills full, and I have some 8-10 liters of low wines (is that what they are called?) I run them through the reflux still.

I still have a lot of wine left. So I can experiment a lot.

[kero]

Oh.. and I run it on firewood. I place it on top of my woodstove. I thought to take advantage of all the heat I am generating in the winter and put it to a second use. I cannot control the temperature so precisely but it is the only way since I don't have that much electricity and there is no way I could afford that much propane. But I am guessing, distilling is way older that electricity and propane. So I should be fine.

So, vague questions get me vague answers. I'll try to ask something specific:

Your abv looks high for a brandy, maybe you used too much reflux ... you can get a great brandy even with (little) reflux but you must know how to conduct the equipment otherwise the bare of the flavors. The cuts are difficult to explain at a distance, I have learned alone ... use your senses to establish the cuts (smell, flavor) and you will understand yourself how to proceed with the experience ... I personally make pretty tight cuts , I never keep something that has a smell that I don't like when comes out of the spout, this even though it will submit an aging. If you give us more information about the procedure you used maybe you might be more specific in your reply.

This is advice that I can follow. Thanks. But, is there nothing that tastes not so great in the beginning but result better with aging, maybe some heads or tails that are not palatable but for example, they interact better with oak and give a better aged product? Did you try and find this to be not true?

I water the %95 down to 40% and it is ok,

It seems to me that to get 95% you must be running some kind of reflux still and using a lot of reflux. If that is the case you have probably stripped quite a bit if flavour out of the brandy already.
How to make cuts is hard to explain to a newby distiller. Its takes time and practice, we all have to learn it and most have done it the hard way....no real help.
IMO until you have some experience and your senses are becoming attuned to the different tastes and smells its easiest to just keep and drink the hearts.
As time goes on you can add a little heads or tails to see what effect that has.
Trying to blend something the first time around is sure to end in a spirit that you wont think a lot of.

Ok so, again the same question actually. Would a blend that actually tastes bad in the beginning taste good with aging? Or does a good blend taste good already in the beginning and just gets better with time?

And how to make these experiments? Because if it was mathematical, I could write it down and bury the jar to age. And try various blends six months later. But when I only rely on my tasting, after six months, when I open the jars, I won't even be able to remember how they tasted like in the first place. Frustrating. I guess this is how it is supposed to be.

[still_stirrin]

Ok so, again the same question actually. Would a blend that actually tastes bad in the beginning taste good with aging? <— What did the answer tell you already? Did you choose to disregard the answer because you wanted to hear something else?
Or does a good blend taste good already in the beginning and just gets better with time? <— Time on wood will help a good spirit get better, yes. But aging a spirit with lousy cuts will improve it too. But of course, it won’t compare to a spirit that was better when going into the cask.

You’re just a rookie. Don’t panic —> Practice. Your questions will be answered for you when you have the experience.

And how to make these experiments? ... But when I only rely on my tasting, after six months, when I open the jars, I won't even be able to remember how they tasted like in the first place. Frustrating…

Or, you could “dip your finger into the jar” every few days and sample AND RECORD your perceptions. This way you’ll learn something about the progression over time. And if you keep good records (that you’ve documented well), you will know in the future how time (maturity) improves your product.
ss

[NZChris]

Ageing takes ages.

If you are wanting to enjoy it in months, don’t get brave and take wide cuts. If your heart cut doesn’t taste good on the day, it may take years of ageing to come right.

Six months on oak and it should become woody and astringent and is not something I choose to proof and drink. I either drink mine young and white, or age it on oak for years.

[kero]

Or does a good blend taste good already in the beginning and just gets better with time?<— Time on wood will help a good spirit get better, yes. But aging a spirit with lousy cuts will improve it too. But of course, it won’t compare to a spirit that was better when going into the cask.
You’re just a rookie. Don’t panic —> Practice. Your questions will be answered for you when you have the experience.

Or, you could “dip your finger into the jar” every few days and sample AND RECORD your perceptions. This way you’ll learn something about the progression over time. And if you keep good records (that you’ve documented well), you will know in the future how time (maturity) improves your product.
ss

Ageing takes ages.

If you are wanting to enjoy it in months, don’t get brave and take wide cuts. If your heart cut doesn’t taste good on the day, it may take years of ageing to come right.

Six months on oak and it should become woody and astringent and is not something I choose to proof and drink. I either drink mine young and white, or age it on oak for years.

All great advice. thanks. I will go tasting and distilling keeping these in mind. One more question: do you think I shouldn't bother with the reflux column and just do it all with the pot still?

[still_stirrin]

… One more question: do you think I shouldn't bother with the reflux column and just do it all with the pot still?

If you want to keep the brandy character, then by all means, use the potstill. If you want to eliminate the brandy flavor, then distill it to a high purity with a reflux column. A flute will get you something in between, where the flavor still comes through but the proof is high enough to age on wood.

But keep in mind that much of the fruit flavor in the brandy is in the late heads/early hearts cut. So, be careful when you make the blend of collection jars.
ss

[NZChris]

I’ve already answered that.