Yeast choices for fruit mash

[Jonalthor]

Forgive me if this question has been answered exhaustively already. I’m not the best at searching older posts for answers. Perhaps someone can direct me to the right thread if it has been answered .

I’m wondering what y’all use for yeast.

I’ve fermented apple, grape, pear, quince and plum mashes. I’ve used High Spirits Fruit & Schnapps Pot Distilling Turbo Yeast. I’ve used distillers yeast. Both yielded pretty good high grade mashes (sugar added) as Schmickl calls them. But I wonder if I can do better.

What yeasts work for you to get the best tasting fruit brandies?

I get mashes close to 18% ABV and have done single distillations with a pot still.

[Saltbush Bill]

I wonder if I can do better.

You sure could , almost every thing your doing is the complete opposite of what most here would suggest makes good fruit based spirit.
You shouldn't have to look to far to learn better ways.
EC1118 is one of the yeasts commonly used.
A ferment using fruit is not a "mash" a mash is made with grain.

good high grade mashes (sugar added) as Schmickl calls them.

Who is Schmickl ?

[zach]

I use EC-1118 for fruit ( grape / plums/ apple) and rice.

Then baker's yeast for most other grains and sugar wash. Turbo has a bad reputation around here. Making wine or beer is another subject and I use the yeast developed for the style.

I've heard the best yeast for plum brandy is the wild yeast that is on the fruit. (in eastern Europe)

If you're adding sugar to get to the 18% ABV, I'd suggest going sugar free as the best tasting fruit brandies I have tasted have no sugar added.

I prefer to aim for 8 to 12% and double distill.

I have added sugar to fruit washes when I couldn't get enough fruit to make it worthwhile so I understand.

[Stonecutter]

good high grade mashes (sugar added) as Schmickl calls them.

Who is Schmickl ?

This is the real question. No doubt this Schmickl fella has a cousin or brother with an equally ridiculous name. Apparently, the whole Schmickl family is into nasty Brandy

[NZChris]

If Schmickl's book hasn't got you making nice spirits yet, I'd suggest you bin it and start doing the research that Schmickl should have done before writing the book.

[Saltbush Bill]

Sounds like the work of the "Carbon Filter, Sales King " to me , Gert Strand.....so maybe hes Schmuckl.
After some quick snooping on the net all roads lead in that direction.

Edit
and more ......note the 25% abv washes.
QUOTE
"For the future, yeast scientists are working very hard. The strains used today are natural and so it will be for a while. New strains will tolerate higher temperatures and higher alcohol contents and make less and less volatiles. After this, genetically manipulated strains will take over.
Then it will be possible to ferment 25% alcohol, a liqueur, maybe even more. How long this will take is impossible to know. My estimation is that it will occur within 9 years from today, but no sooner than 4 years......Gert Strand."

[jonnys_spirit]

Ec1118 is sorta generic in wine musts but it’s a robust yeast that will chew through difficult ferments. Check out some other wine yeasts for different brandies like d47 and similar. There’s a ton of em out there.

Cheers!
-j

[subbrew]

I have found that D47 gives good flavor and will take a lower PH than most. So if you are fermenting something acidic such as some apples can be I have had best luck avoiding stalls with D47. I have even pitched D47 after other yeast has stalled and it picked things back up. That was in a couple of ciders with apples that should have been more ripe.

[NZChris]

I'd guess that EC-1118 and D47 are only going to help if you also ignore other bad advice in Schmickl's book.

[dmw_chef]

https://shop.scottlab.com/content/files ... ok2020.pdf

If you want to go HAM, read through the yeast descriptions in this handbook and choose one that will highlight the flavors you'd like to come through.

[jonnys_spirit]

Here's another good yeast reference for wines which might be helpful for various brandies.

https://morewinemaking.com/web_files/in ... stpair.pdf

Cheers,
j

[Jonalthor]

Sorry. Having trouble doing this on a phone

Schmickl is:
The Artisan's Guide to Crafting Distilled Spirits By “Expert Austrian distillers Helge Schmickl and Bettina Malle”

The book concentrated mostly on fruit brandies

[Jonalthor]

Thanks for all the input. I’m learning that just because someone wears a white lab coat and has chemistry degrees and publishes books in multiple languages and goes on speaking tours doesn’t mean he’s any more expert than my good friends here on homedistiller.org.

His logic in using the high alcohol tolerant yeast is not the usual impatience that some use turbo yeast for. He recommends fernenting slow and cool. His thinking is you get a high ABV and you’ll only have to distill once, which he claims will give you more fruit flavor.

He also recommends keeping these whole fruit fermentation buckets for 6 months before distilling. He claims it reduces the amount of heads.

But I’ve read elsewhere that letting your mash sit around too long before distilling is a good way to increase methanol, so I won’t be doing that anymore. And I noticed no decrease in the heads cut.

[Jonalthor]

I wonder if I can do better.

A ferment using fruit is not a "mash" a mash is made with grain.

good high grade mashes (sugar added) as Schmickl calls them.

Who is Schmickl ?

What is a fruit mash called then? Rum has washes, whisky has mashes and the fruit fermentation is definitely mashed before fermenting….

[Jonalthor]

If Schmickl's book hasn't got you making nice spirits yet, I'd suggest you bin it and start doing the research that Schmickl should have done before writing the book.

To be honest, the things I have made using his method have been very good. I have Serbian friends who make this stuff professionally in monasteries and the things I’ve made were comparable in quality. Especially the apple and quince rakija were amazing.

[Stonecutter]

I wonder if I can do better.

A ferment using fruit is not a "mash" a mash is made with grain.

good high grade mashes (sugar added) as Schmickl calls them.

Who is Schmickl ?

What is a fruit mash called then? Rum has washes, whisky has mashes and the fruit fermentation is definitely mashed before fermenting….

You could call it a wine but the parent site does refer to Brandy as…

“`Brandy' is an alcoholic distillate from the fermented juice, mash, or wine of fruit, or from the residue thereof, produced at less than 190 deg. proof in such manner that the distillate possesses the taste, aroma, and characteristics generally attributed to the product, and bottled at not less than 80 deg. proof.

[jonnys_spirit]

I wonder if I can do better.

A ferment using fruit is not a "mash" a mash is made with grain.

good high grade mashes (sugar added) as Schmickl calls them.

Who is Schmickl ?

What is a fruit mash called then? Rum has washes, whisky has mashes and the fruit fermentation is definitely mashed before fermenting….

You could call it a wine but the parent site does refer to Brandy as…

“`Brandy' is an alcoholic distillate from the fermented juice, mash, or wine of fruit, or from the residue thereof, produced at less than 190 deg. proof in such manner that the distillate possesses the taste, aroma, and characteristics generally attributed to the product, and bottled at not less than 80 deg. proof.

I refer to them as a "Must" which is how a grape/wine ferment is referred to.

Cheers!
-j

[Stonecutter]

I refer to them as a "Must" which is how a grape/wine ferment is referred to.

Cheers!
-j

Ok this is interesting because I’ve gone to my local homebrew shop and bought wine kits to make Brandy with and when I called it must they told me it was only concentrate and not considered must. So I believe must…. must contain skins and seeds as well.

[jonnys_spirit]

I refer to them as a "Must" which is how a grape/wine ferment is referred to.

Cheers!
-j

Ok this is interesting because I’ve gone to my local homebrew shop and bought wine kits to make Brandy with and when I called it must they told me it was only concentrate and not considered must. So I believe must…. must contain skins and seeds as well.

I believe that's accurate! I've heard folks call a honey/mead ferment a Must as well and it made me feel a little dirty deep down inside but I rolled with it anyway...

Cheers!
-j

[Stonecutter]

I refer to them as a "Must" which is how a grape/wine ferment is referred to.

Cheers!
-j

Ok this is interesting because I’ve gone to my local homebrew shop and bought wine kits to make Brandy with and when I called it must they told me it was only concentrate and not considered must. So I believe must…. must contain skins and seeds as well.

I believe that's accurate! I've heard folks call a honey/mead ferment a Must as well and it made me feel a little dirty deep down inside but I rolled with it anyway...

Cheers!
-j

Yeah, I try to not be that guy in the real world. Nobody wants to hear some nerd pop off about specifics. What I really like is when you get the guy that watches moonshiners who doesn’t know that you still and he’s just rambling on and on about some bullshit. that really floats my boat. Just nod your head and smile

[subbrew]

.

His logic in using the high alcohol tolerant yeast is not the usual impatience that some use turbo yeast for. He recommends fernenting slow and cool. His thinking is you get a high ABV and you’ll only have to distill once, which he claims will give you more fruit flavor.

That is interesting. I could see that for grape especially as it is not uncommon to make a 13 to 15% wine. The yeast does not stress there, but it is a slow ferment compared to the days most fermentation destined for a still. For something like apple you would need to add sugar or somehow concentrate the sugars to get that high but I have added sugar to cider to make apple wine that turned out well. Looses a lot of the apple flavor though, just a crisp white wine so not sure it would make a good brandy. (Hum, just thinking what a boiled apple cider ferment, eventually turned into brandy would taste like. Boiled, concentrated apple cider is wonderful) Depending on how much apple juice I press this year I might have to give that a try.

[Saltbush Bill]

What is a fruit mash called then? Rum has washes, whisky has mashes and the fruit fermentation is definitely mashed before fermenting….

Sorry to be picky about the terminology , we get people here regularly calling mashes washes and washes mashes, it can all get very confusing if we don't all use the same words/ language for the same things. The same goes for other aspects of distilling , we get those who dont know the difference between a pot still and a reflux still, or a plated column when they first arrive here.
My comment was to try to save that confusion.......my understanding is this.
Quote
Must (from the Latin vinum mustum, "young wine") is freshly crushed fruit juice (usually grape juice) that contains the skins, seeds, and stems of the fruit. The solid portion of the must is called pomace and typically makes up 7–23% of the total weight of the must. Making must is the first step in winemaking.
Quote
Mashing is the term given to the start of the brewing process, where crushed grains are mixed with water to form a porridge-like mixture called the “mash.” It is in the mash that malt and other cereal starches are transformed into sugars and proteins and other materials are made soluble, creating the sweet fermentable liquid called the wort.

I’m learning that just because someone wears a white lab coat and has chemistry degrees and publishes books in multiple languages and goes on speaking tours doesn’t mean he’s any more expert than my good friends here on homedistiller.org.

Maybe you could post a link to this persons works or give them a name ?

Every thing Ive read or seen about adding sugar to fruit before fermentation indicates that it will rob you of flavour, that makes sence to me , there is only so much flavour in any one bucket of fruit, If that is diluted by adding sugar to produce an un-natural amount of alcohol to the overall finished product then it makes sense that there will be less flavour. Having said that Ive not got a lot of fruit experience, Ive only made spirit from Grapes, Jaboticaba and Apricots. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jabuticaba

[Stonecutter]

JABOTICABA!!! Well screw you BUDDY!
Errr…I mean that’s way awesome!
Have you ever made a jam out of em Salty?

[cob]

Who is Schmickl ?

Found Schmickl https://www.distilling-fermenting-semin ... tfolio]/0/

[Jonalthor]

I’m learning that just because someone wears a white lab coat and has chemistry degrees and publishes books in multiple languages and goes on speaking tours doesn’t mean he’s any more expert than my good friends here on homedistiller.org.

Maybe you could post a link to this persons works or give them a name ?


The Artisan's Guide to Crafting Distilled Spirits

[Jonalthor]

https://www.distilling-spirits.com/

This is his website.

He’s a member on the forum but not very active.

[Jonalthor]

Thanks for the clarification of terminology.

Germans use “Maische” for mashed fruit to be fermented and then distilled so I mistakenly assumed it was the same as English “mash.”

Until now I’ve only ever come across “must” in wine-making contexts and grapes.

[Jonalthor]

I’m a little surprised people aren’t more familiar with the authors Malle and Schmickl as their book seems to be one of the best rated books on distilling… on Amazon anyway.

I’ve corresponded with the husband of the team and he’s quick to respond to email questions in English and German.

[Jonalthor]

[from their book]
About the Author
Bettina Malle and Helge Schmickl graduated from the Vienna University of Technology in 1991 with masters of science in chemical engineering and received doctorates in technical sciences in 1993. They have published books and conduct workshops on the production of vinegar, distilled spirits, and essential oils, emphasizing the use of fruits and herbs right from the garden. Bettina and Helge have been married since 2002. That same year they moved to Klagenfurt, Carinthia (Austria), where they host their seminars and conduct research and developments in fermenting and distilling. They have two children.

[Saltbush Bill]

Have you ever made a jam out of em Salty?

No Jam , just an experimental batch of Spirit which turned out very well. Not sure I will do it again as picking them is a shit of a job.....you need thousands and thousands , all most all need to be picked individually as they dont all ripen at once.....a form of torture maybe.