Genio and the Idea of Automation Cuts

[Fxaddicted]

for someone suffer from sinuses for a long time the Idea of Automation Cuts make sense to me

Genio Product has been reviewed by many Pro people and found out that the machine really does great job when it comes to Vodka type spirits and the auto Cuts it does

luckily they have another product similar to Genio Line and way cheaper . and it's Water jacket tank



and here the specific design




I'm really about to buy this in few days . what you guys think ? should i be worry about Cuts and take out more then what the still does just to be safe ?

[greggn]

for someone suffer from sinuses for a long time the Idea of Automation Cuts make sense to me

Hey, a built-in carbon filter ... an automatic fix for bad cuts. Oh, but the cuts are automated.

Ouch !

[Fxaddicted]

for someone suffer from sinuses for a long time the Idea of Automation Cuts make sense to me

Hey, a built-in carbon filter ... an automatic fix for bad cuts. Oh, but the cuts are automated.

Ouch !

I see what you mean . the filter optional and can be turn off from the screen that's what they claim anyway

[JAMAWG]

I would be lying if I said that didn't give me still envy! Automated cuts seems achievable. My heads cuts seems to always be between 165 and 160 proof. Thats a pot still anyways. Don't see why they wouldn't be able to figure out several ways of automation for that. Tails seems like it might be tougher?
I might have to get me one of these some day..

[sadie33]

hmmmm...I don't know. I too have a nose that doesn't work well because of sinuses. But TASTE is a big part of it too. Though I'm sure it can do the job; part of the fun is making what you personally like. Is it a function that can be turned off if you want to? That might be good, to let it pick at first, then once you get the hang of it, shut it off?

[elbono]

I think you will find the reception here for automatic cuts very negative. I have had sinus issues my entire life and am very "aroma challenged" so I'm not sure I will ever be able to do better cuts than this type of rig but I haven't given up yet. In the end the only parameter they can use for control is temperature and I can read a thermometer!

If you are committed to this type of rig take a look at still4you.com, they make similar stuff. They also make good SPP which is my only experience with them.

You may want to take a look at riku's book on automatic stills https://a.co/d/6lExf87 . I'm not sure it's worth $25 but it a lot cheaper than that still. I put it down when he talks about sealing stuff with RTV silicone but I'm sure there's some useful info in there somewhere. If I ever go this route I'll build my own.

[DAD300]

This is an expensive way to solve a problem that doesn't exist!
Collect in small containers, air overnight, keep what you like! FREE

[Yummyrum]

This is an expensive way to solve a problem that doesn't exist!
Collect in small containers, air overnight, keep what you like! FREE

Amen to that DAD

Alas Gadget boys will always be drawn to anything that has a microcontroller in it thinking it can do things better than the average human ….. this giving them the upper hand .

[Saltbush Bill]

Aimed at people who want to take short cuts and not learn to distill properly, if you ask me.
Learn to make cuts using your senses, and learn to run a still hands on, again using your senses , you can then run any still of any size anywhere in the world, and churn out a good product.
Learn to run and keep running a still using gadgets and you will be a prisoner to gadgets for life.
Imagine if you will.......... standing in front of a huge pot still in a rum distillery , and being offered the chance to run that still , and having to say......Ohhhhhhh sorry I cant ......It doesn' t have a thermometer...... Or I cant ...it wont make cuts for me.

[DAD300]

When I had a beer keg on a turkey burner, I had a wristwatch stopwatch and one thermometer. I measured the temp of the cooling water outflow to keep it below 140F.

COLLECTED IN SMALL CONTAINERS

There are several distilleries that I have been to, that after investing hundreds of thousands up to million on beautiful stills, went out and hired someone to run it. Or gave up and started buying commodity booze to bottle.

One, while they were building, asked me if I could run their $500,000 German still. I said, Sure, and by the second run we'll have a good estimate of the power, times to first drop, hearts, tails and quantity it will produce. By the tenth time you run it, you'll know everything necessary and it will be boring!"

I turn my power on. I learn what power it takes to get first drop in 1hour+45min

Start cooling water(s) at 1hour+30min

1+40 or I cut power to 60% and sneak up on first drop.

First drop, cut power to 45% and work through fores and heads at desired abv

COLLECT IN SMALL CONTAINERS

Adjust the power and cooling to get the desired abv as long as you can

COLLECT IN SMALL CONTAINERS

As the abv gets lower, and you can't maintain it, add power and collect the remainder as much/long as time allows. What turns out to not be drink can be rerun.

COLLECT IN SMALL CONTAINERS

I have thermometers everywhere (boiler jacket, in the boiler submerged, in the boiler above liquid, at the top of the column above the dephlag and in the outflow of the product condenser water), because that's what came on a professional still. I had to plug the holes, so, yes, I put thermometers in them.

I rely one of them! Maintaining cooling water outflow below 140F is most important.

I have an old laptop on the wall. It has a stopwatch program running on it. I start stopwatch at power on and know within minutes what will happen.

The more automated you make the process, the more likely you'll try to ignore it, the more likely you won't know how or be ready to respond to anomalies!

I've had anomalies!

I've had a fire on top of a beer keg!

I blocked the bottom of a parrot, twice, and had product spewing out on the floor.

But, I was there watching.

After that, everything will depend on the quality of the ferment.

Remember, our ancestors did all this over a wood fire, by sticking their finger in stuff.

[BrewinBrian44]

Remember, our ancestors did all this over a wood fire, by sticking their finger in stuff.

Controlling your “power” by adding and removing logs. Pretty wild. It’s like making bbq on a smoker.

[Adasko3002]

Hello, To be honest, I am currently working on this type of device, but I start my adventure with distillation on their manual still where I have to learn when to make cuts. Because of lack of time, I switch to automated still and I am quite happy with it. I am starting the run and can make some work around the home, and keeping my way on the still. I love my manual still, but I also like the possibility that I do not have to spend 8h by the still

[Salt Must Flow]

I'd be curious to know how Genio claims to be able to make 'automated cuts'. Like what device are they using to determine cuts?

[greggn]

but I also like the possibility that I do not have to spend 8h by the still

For safety, we recommend that you spend those hours by the still.

[Saltbush Bill]

but I also like the possibility that I do not have to spend 8h by the still

No one on this forum is going to condone leaving a still unattended.
Bad idea

[BrewinBrian44]

but I also like the possibility that I do not have to spend 8h by the still

No one on this forum is going to condone leaving a still unattended.
Bad idea

Totally agree. Electrical components fail all the time. Coolant lines pop off, clogs happen, kinks, etc.! I’d assume the water is controlled by some type of actuator that could fail too. How do I know stuff can go wrong, it’s happened to me, but I was there to catch it! Murphy’s law. You’re dealing with a fucking bomb! You can kill yourself, your family or burn your place to the ground. Sorry this sounds harsh, but this hobby can really be life or death. Safety is the most important thing to consider here.

Imagine a situation where your reflux condenser fails and vapor starts filling your room, or a situation where your power control fails and you get a runaway flood in your column and you get alcohol spilling all over the place. Here’s another one, human error… you don’t clamp one of your tri clamp ferrules perfectly square and it leaks vapor. This has happened to me before! I check for leaks throughout the run with a little pocket mirror and noticed before it became a problem. Thankfully I was able to just over torque the tri clamp and that resolved it. Imagine if I left it running for hours like this?!

If you can’t be by your still while it’s running, you shouldn’t do the hobby.

Hell, I feel uneasy having to take a shit mid-run. Thankfully, there’s a bathroom right next to the distilling room and I bring a fire extinguisher in there with me for good measure. also comes in handy if I got a bad batch of Taco Bell for lunch. I shit with the door open and watch the still.

[Saltbush Bill]

Nice post BB44.........and it always happens when you least expect and for the most bizarre of reasons......sometimes things you couldn't even dream up.

[ecir54]

touch, sight, hearing, smell and taste is the most enjoyable part about this hobby.

[MooseMan]

When I had a beer keg on a turkey burner, I had a wristwatch stopwatch and one thermometer. I measured the temp of the cooling water outflow to keep it below 140F.

COLLECTED IN SMALL CONTAINERS

There are several distilleries that I have been to, that after investing hundreds of thousands up to million on beautiful stills, went out and hired someone to run it. Or gave up and started buying commodity booze to bottle.

One, while they were building, asked me if I could run their $500,000 German still. I said, Sure, and by the second run we'll have a good estimate of the power, times to first drop, hearts, tails and quantity it will produce. By the tenth time you run it, you'll know everything necessary and it will be boring!"

I turn my power on. I learn what power it takes to get first drop in 1hour+45min

Start cooling water(s) at 1hour+30min

1+40 or I cut power to 60% and sneak up on first drop.

First drop, cut power to 45% and work through fores and heads at desired abv

COLLECT IN SMALL CONTAINERS

Adjust the power and cooling to get the desired abv as long as you can

COLLECT IN SMALL CONTAINERS

As the abv gets lower, and you can't maintain it, add power and collect the remainder as much/long as time allows. What turns out to not be drink can be rerun.

COLLECT IN SMALL CONTAINERS

I have thermometers everywhere (boiler jacket, in the boiler submerged, in the boiler above liquid, at the top of the column above the dephlag and in the outflow of the product condenser water), because that's what came on a professional still. I had to plug the holes, so, yes, I put thermometers in them.

I rely one of them! Maintaining cooling water outflow below 140F is most important.

I have an old laptop on the wall. It has a stopwatch program running on it. I start stopwatch at power on and know within minutes what will happen.

The more automated you make the process, the more likely you'll try to ignore it, the more likely you won't know how or be ready to respond to anomalies!

I've had anomalies!

I've had a fire on top of a beer keg!

I blocked the bottom of a parrot, twice, and had product spewing out on the floor.

But, I was there watching.

After that, everything will depend on the quality of the ferment.

Remember, our ancestors did all this over a wood fire, by sticking their finger in stuff.

Very informative DAD300, as always!

Regarding your consistent reference to 140f (60C) cooling fluid outlet.
Do you consider it so important that it needs a thermometer and if so could you enlarge on that?

Genuine question, from a beginner who has no thermometers anywhere, but not adverse to using one if it will be of benefit.

[Siva283]

I use a thermometer on my boiler thats it. As there is less alcohol the temp will rise. Once I get to 208 F or so I shut it down. There is one on my column too at the top. I use it if I am making neutral. I crank the reflux condensor up and slowly turn it down till I see that one start to move and I know some vapor is passing the reflux condensor. A light that says now dumbass would also work or none at all. Mine had a provision for it otherwise there wouldnt be one there. I do like have one on the boiler though but again if it wasnt there no big deal.

[Salt Must Flow]

Very informative DAD300, as always!

Regarding your consistent reference to 140f (60C) cooling fluid outlet.
Do you consider it so important that it needs a thermometer and if so could you enlarge on that?

Genuine question, from a beginner who has no thermometers anywhere, but not adverse to using one if it will be of benefit.

No, a thermometer is not critical to monitor exiting water temp, but some find it very convenient.

I have a thermowell on the 'water out' side of my reflux condenser. If the water is exiting at 110F then I know I can turn the water flow down (to increase temp). If the temp goes above 140F I know the water flow could be higher (to reduce the temp). With the reflux condenser on my VM, if the water reaches around 160F, vapor will start to escape through the top. I just use a digital thermometer, set a temp alarm for 140F and I know that I am making best use of the water flowing through the reflux condenser (not too fast, not too slow). I send waste water down the drain.

[BrewinBrian44]

touch, sight, hearing, smell and taste is the most enjoyable part about this hobby.

If the only thing you want out of this hobby is the product coming out the pipe, you'd be better off purchasing premium spirits at the liquor store. I think of this hobby like playing a musical instrument, especially running a reflux column. There's beauty in the process and it's very rewarding when you get to enjoy the spirits at the end of it all. I really don't understand the point of buying an automated still, unless you're trying to illegally sell your product and don't care much for the process. Sure, you get that extra level of precision, but where's the fun in that?

To each their own.

[The Baker]

Then there was the time a visitor parked on the water line from the condenser...

Geoff

[Wildcats]

The idea of automatic cut... Well to me that don't make sense. Yes if you are running the same wash and same ABV. And same volume.... Then you have a good idea of when to make your cuts. But always go with taste, smell and feel. Just my two cents. Have fun and stay safe.

[bilgriss]

I guess I'm always one to step back and question decisions that revolve around making something that isn't broken "easier". That isn't to say there aren't good reasons to do so, given the right situations, and I'm not judging.

Example: People will tell me their time is too valuable to do some task, like mow the grass or change their oil. I watch them watch television or their phone while someone else does it for them. My response is always that the person who is living this part of their life for them's time is infinitely MORE valuable than theirs, since they're getting paid.

In this case, let's assume that the cuts which are in some way automated and don't necessarily need a carbon filter are just as good as yours. Then I guess what you've paid for is reduction in time. That's fine by me.

But what I see more often when people buy kitchen gizmos or something that goes into the microwave because it's time saving, is just the opposite in terms of quality. Badder food faster. So I have to approach this with skepticism.

[bilgriss]

It's a pretty machine though.

[NormandieStill]

I'm going to play devil's advocate here.

I like making flavoured drinks. A good part of that is whisky and brandy and enjoy the experience of sitting by it and monitoring the changing flavours as I swap out jars.

I also make infusion style drinks (liqueurs, gin) which require a supply of neutral. I've played around with a few options and come up with a recipe and protocol that seems to yield a good supply of neutral with my CCVM. Another few iterations and I'll have it nailed down. The enjoyment I get from making these drinks comes from the recipe development.

Where automation would be useful for me would be doing the legwork of making neutral. I would be OK with a slightly lower yield due to more conservative cuts if it meant I could (safely) let the still just churn out some neutral and call me when it was done.

Which is a long way of saying that I can see the argument in favour but I don't think it's reliable enough with the variation in yield at hobbyist quantities. And I'd need to be convinced that there were more than a bare minimum of safety devices built-in.

[DAD300]

Mooseman,

The water temp of the PC coolant outflow is one, if not the greatest safety factors. It warrants a thermometer! and maybe an alarm...

If my coolant water never exceeds 140F (160f with a 20 degree safety margin) I can never blow vapor out the PC.

I have an inexpensive cooking thermo with a settable alarm for 140F. If that alarm goes off, I have a 20degree margin before I would accidentally get explosive vapor out the PC. That gives me a lot of time to decrease power or increase water flow to get things back to normal.

As to the idea of making neutral being boring...

I'm way more afraid and safety conscience when making vodka/neutral. 96% product/vapor leaks are way more dangerous than a normal whiskey run at 70-80%.

[LWTCS]

I've tried to hold back any criticism of this system.
As well as using temps to make cuts.

The human pallet is far more accurate than any perceived temperature used to determine a cut point.

And that kettle design? It's absolutely less than optimal with respect to heat up time.