working on getting better at cuts ?

[sadie33]

I have really only done cuts on UJSSM (gen 1-3). I have done two 2.25 gal charges. I collect in pint mason jars, collecting 200 ml in each jar. I toss the first 200 ml. I let them air for 2-3 days. ON run 1 I collected 16 jars and used jars #4-10. ended up with 4.5 cups at 71%. On my second run I collected 14 jars and ended up using the same jars #4-10. I ended up with 4.25 cups at 57%.

Today I did cuts on a sweet feed whiskey it was a 2 gal charge. I collected 14 jars. I started in the middle and worked my way out to tails, then to heads. I was surprised with my results. Last time I smelled jar 14(UJSSM) and was very heavy with the dirty sock smell, for some reason I tasted it and it was sooo gross I was wiping my tongue with a paper towel, rinsing my mouth and spitting. I smelled jar 14 of my sweet feed and it smelled the same. I wasn't going to try it, but decided I should. though it did have a dirty sock taste, it was followed by a really sweet, lingering flavor that I liked, but it was still too strong with the dirty sock smell so I didn't keep it.

As I tasted the jars, I was surprised to find how deep in the tails tasted really good even though it had a hint of dirty sock. I also went into the heads and was surprised I kept jar #3.

So here are some questions in regards to fine tuning my cuts.

1. I kinda wanted to add some of my tail jars and try some blending, but I was afraid it would bring my total % too low. Is there a % you don't want to go below when you're done making cuts? I know when I oaked my UJSSM I diluted to 63%, but my total on my sweet feed after cuts was 46% so I ended up not adding any of my later tails. I was already lower than I wanted to be.

2. If I am BELOW the % I want to oak at how do I raise it? I was thinking of adding a little of jar #2, it was 70%. I tasted it again (at 41%) and it was sweet, had some burn, but not bad. I thought by adding some of this it would bring up my total %, but was concerned of adding too much heads. How do you know how far into the heads you can go?

3. If I did add some of my later tails, does that hint of dirty sock age out or get stronger? The smell was strong, but the taste was just a hint somewhere in the middle. It was like sweet, dirty sock then a lingering sweet, molasses flavor that was nice.

4. Now I have 6 cups of 46% sweet feed whiskey. I have a brand new 2L barrel I was planning on aging it in. I don't think I'm going to do another sweet feed run till fall. Is it better to age this in my 2L barrel (being about 2.5 cups shy of filling) or in glass with toasted/charred oak "sticks"?

Sorry for the long post and all the questions, but I couldn't really find answers.

[Deplorable]

1. Read up on aging at different proofs. Toast and char levels as well as ABV creat differences you'll taste in the final product.

2. Well, you can drink it white.

3. Depends on what you had in that late jar. If you were past the fusels and into Sweetwater, probably. But maybe not.

4. Drink it white, or toss some oak in it and put it away and forget about it for a year and see what you learn.

[BrewinBrian44]

Working with such low boiler volumes makes cuts very difficult as the product will smear easily unless you run very slow. I’m sure you’ve learned this, but hey, if you have a small still you just gotta roll with it. One thing you can try if you’d like to clean things up a bit is take a “slightly” wide cut from your second distillation “I’m assuming you’re doing stripping runs” and save it. Distill the same product again with the same protocol with slightly wide cuts and combine them to fill your boiler for a 3rd distillation. Your cuts will be easier and your product will be more refined, even on a small still. You’ll still get plenty of flavor.

As for the sweet, tasty flavors in the dirty socks jars, I’ll speak to my time as a novice making UJSSM. DO NOT put this in your final blend. Those stinky smells actually amplify after you combine your cuts. No reasonable amount of time on oak will smooth this out. The foundation of a whiskey like spirit comes from early tails, that’s where the oily body and grain flavor come from, but if it’s tinged with the stink, leave it out. Trust me, I know the temptation when you get down there, but don’t ruin your spirit with this stuff. Early in this hobby, the best place to start is to make products that are clean before delving into wide cuts and aggressive blending. You’ll still be proud of yourself for making clean stuff on a hobby scale and will enjoy sipping on it and sharing with friends.

Also, your aggregate ABV sounds very low, which leads me to believe you’ve either smeared your run by using too much power, or you’re blending too deep into your tails jars. OR you’re trying single runs.

Raising the aggregate ABV of your final blend with a possible heads jar is not a good idea. Consider my advice about saving what you have to run again.

[NZChris]

You should be rinsing and using a spittoon after every tasting, not just the nasty ones.

Looking through my tasting notes made during spirit runs, it's clear that I'm not good at guessing what a jar will do to a heart cut sample, but that is what a lot of posters here recommend for beginners.

This is roughly how I choose my cuts for flavored product.

Use my nose to identify the least flavorsome jars and with no obvious faults. These are in the middle of the run.

Make up a sample of a prospective blend using only the obvious heart cut jars and taste it, then alternately add to the sample from jars from each end until I can identify the jars that are one too far.
I use a 5ml dipper made out of a bent spoon, take my time, dilute to below 40% for tasting, use a spittoon and rinse with fresh water between tastings. It takes a lot less sampling than tasting each individual jar, plus all the rechecking etc..

Whatever method you use, you should make up a sample of your final choice and sample that before committing it to one vessel. Saving that step until the next day, when your taste buds have recovered, might save you making a mistake.

PS. I don't air UJSSM more than overnight before choosing my cuts. I want my flavors in my heart cut, not wafting out the shed door, so I save that trick for making neutral.

[Saltbush Bill]

Trust me, I know the temptation when you get down there, but don’t ruin your spirit with this stuff. Early in this hobby, the best place to start is to make products that are clean before delving into wide cuts and aggressive blending. You’ll still be proud of yourself for making clean stuff on a hobby scale and will enjoy sipping on it and sharing with friends.

That's it in a nut shell imo. Leave blending to the Gurus until you have way more experience. 10 years in and some times I still tear hair out over which jars to add or not.

[sadie33]

1. Read up on aging at different proofs. Toast and char levels as well as ABV creat differences you'll taste in the final product.

2. Well, you can drink it white.

3. Depends on what you had in that late jar. If you were past the fusels and into Sweetwater, probably. But maybe not.

4. Drink it white, or toss some oak in it and put it away and forget about it for a year and see what you learn.

thanks,
I have read several aging threads which is how I knew I wanted to age my UJSSM at 63%.

[Wildcats]

You should be rinsing and using a spittoon after every tasting, not just the nasty ones.

Looking through my tasting notes made during spirit runs, it's clear that I'm not good at guessing what a jar will do to a heart cut sample, but that is what a lot of posters here recommend for beginners.

This is roughly how I choose my cuts for flavored product.

Use my nose to identify the least flavorsome jars and with no obvious faults. These are in the middle of the run.

Make up a sample of a prospective blend using only the obvious heart cut jars and taste it, then alternately add to the sample from jars from each end until I can identify the jars that are one too far.
I use a 5ml dipper made out of a bent spoon, take my time, dilute to below 40% for tasting, use a spittoon and rinse with fresh water between tastings. It takes a lot less sampling than tasting each individual jar, plus all the rechecking etc..

Whatever method you use, you should make up a sample of your final choice and sample that before committing it to one vessel. Saving that step until the next day, when your taste buds have recovered, might save you making a mistake.

PS. I don't air UJSSM more than overnight before choosing my cuts. I want my flavors in my heart cut, not wafting out the shed door, so I save that trick for making neutral.

Nice. Glad I read this. Thank you sir.

[TwoSheds]

I feel like adding feints into a future run of the same spirit also makes cuts a little easier. You're basically increasing the heads and tails cuts making them a little more obvious and you should get a little more hearts out too.

I don't always have the right type of feints around to do this, but it definitely helped me on UJSSM runs while learning.

[sadie33]

You should be rinsing and using a spittoon after every tasting, not just the nasty ones.

Looking through my tasting notes made during spirit runs, it's clear that I'm not good at guessing what a jar will do to a heart cut sample, but that is what a lot of posters here recommend for beginners.

This is roughly how I choose my cuts for flavored product.

Use my nose to identify the least flavorsome jars and with no obvious faults. These are in the middle of the run.

Make up a sample of a prospective blend using only the obvious heart cut jars and taste it, then alternately add to the sample from jars from each end until I can identify the jars that are one too far.
I use a 5ml dipper made out of a bent spoon, take my time, dilute to below 40% for tasting, use a spittoon and rinse with fresh water between tastings. It takes a lot less sampling than tasting each individual jar, plus all the rechecking etc..

Whatever method you use, you should make up a sample of your final choice and sample that before committing it to one vessel. Saving that step until the next day, when your taste buds have recovered, might save you making a mistake.

PS. I don't air UJSSM more than overnight before choosing my cuts. I want my flavors in my heart cut, not wafting out the shed door, so I save that trick for making neutral.

LOL, I DO rinse and spit between samples, I use the paper towel when it's gross!! I have read a few of your posts on how you do your cuts, they were very well detailed. I tried the bent spoon and it didn't work for me. I did like the idea of making a "cocktail" of certain samples before dumping them in. I will try this next time. I just did my stripping run today on my honey bear bourbon. I will try it on this and see how it goes. It will take me a while though, I have to ferment another batch or 2 before I do my spirit run.

[sadie33]

I feel like adding feints into a future run of the same spirit also makes cuts a little easier. You're basically increasing the heads and tails cuts making them a little more obvious and you should get a little more hearts out too.

I don't always have the right type of feints around to do this, but it definitely helped me on UJSSM runs while learning.

I probably could have done this. I had to wait a few weeks before I did my spirit run. For some reason I tasted my sweet feed feints and they were really good! Maybe next time I will try this too.

[NZChris]

I did like the idea of making a "cocktail" of certain samples before dumping them in. I will try this next time.

I've never heard of that one before.

[sadie33]

I did like the idea of making a "cocktail" of certain samples before dumping them in. I will try this next time.

I've never heard of that one before.

I meant like your sample. A little bit of certain jars that you might like together-a cocktail.

[NZChris]

That's not what I do. Starting with the most flavorless jars in the middle, I use a measured amount from each jar to make a sample that is representative of the blend they would make. That's why I use a dipper. I then estimate the ABV and use the dipper to add water to about 35% ABV.

Taste that, then add a dipper from another jar, add water to 35%.

Taste that, then add a dipper from a jar at the other end, add water to 35%.

Repeat until you find the jars that spoil the sample. Those jars are definitely heads and tails and should not be included in the hearts.