? on feed grade molasses

[sadie33]

I read the SBBs All Molasses Rum thread and found not all feed molasses are the same. Some have a higher sugar % then others. I called my local grain store and they had a 5 gal bucket of feed molasses so I went and picked it up and did my first ferment.

I just did the stripping run, went real slow so it wouldn't puke. I also only filled my 5 gal pot with 2 gals.

It came off the spout at 55%. This seems rather low, but I've never done a rum. I' guessing it's because my molasses could have had a really low sugar %. There isn't a label with ingredients on it so I don't know the sugar %

I ended up with 6 cups of 30% out of a 2 gal charge.

[8Ball]

My notes on Tractor Supply Evolved Habitats blackstrap molasses:
Aka “feed molasses.”
1G TSC molasses (4.89 # fermentables)

[sadie33]

My notes on Tractor Supply Evolved Habitats blackstrap molasses:
Aka “feed molasses.”
1G TSC molasses (4.89 # fermentables)

I didn't get it from TSC. The only note on it said it came from Kent nutrition group. I looked them up, but couldn't find any info on their molasses.

[NZChris]

If you wrote everything down, you should be able to calculate how much sugar was in the molasses.

[still_stirrin]

… I ended up with 6 cups of 30% out of a 2 gal charge.

2 gallons = 8 quarts.
6 cups = 1-1/2 quarts

Low wines collection: 1.5 / 8 = 0.1875, or approximately 19% collected from the wash as low wines.

Typically, I would expect about 1/3 of the charge (30% +/-) to be collected as low wines, so you either left some in the boiler or you cut some of the collection out. Or, the alcohol was low in the wash to begin with, at just over 1/2 of a typical ferment (5%ABV potential).

Molasses, especially livestock feed molasses, is hard to estimate the %ABV potential unless you test the Brix content before fermentation. You’d need a refractometer to do that because the hydrometer is often confused by all the heavy non-fermentable stuff in the molly.
ss

[sadie33]

… I ended up with 6 cups of 30% out of a 2 gal charge.

2 gallons = 8 quarts.
6 cups = 1-1/2 quarts

Low wines collection: 1.5 / 8 = 0.1875, or approximately 19% collected from the wash as low wines.

Typically, I would expect about 1/3 of the charge (30% +/-) to be collected as low wines, so you either left some in the boiler or you cut some of the collection out. Or, the alcohol was low in the wash to begin with, at just over 1/2 of a typical ferment (5%ABV potential).

Molasses, especially livestock feed molasses, is hard to estimate the %ABV potential unless you test the Brix content before fermentation. You’d need a refractometer to do that because the hydrometer is often confused by all the heavy non-fermentable stuff in the molly.
ss

darn it, I have a refractometer that does brix, oh well. I will test the rest of the wash to at least rule that out.

What do you mean by I cut some of the collection out?

[sadie33]

The Brix is 14% and that has ATC. When I put it in the calculator it comes out at 1.05 SG or 7.6% ABV

[sadie33]

The Brix is 14% and that has ATC. When I put it in the calculator it comes out at 1.05 SG or 7.6% ABV

I just realized you said BEFORE the ferment...oh well.

Going forward, should I switch my recipe to one with added sugar to up my potential alcohol? I have 3+ gallons of this stuff to use up.

[Sporacle]

Personally Sadie, I would stick with the recipe.
I've just run a SBB that was a fairly low yield.
The product however is top notch, it's not all about volume, if it was I'd be solely doing SSS and using essence.
Stick with the all molly it's worth it

[still_stirrin]

… What do you mean by I cut some of the collection out?

Cut some of the heads and foreshots from your stripping run, ie - the low wines collection was less that what came off the spout throughout the (strip) run.
ss

[Yummyrum]

I believe a refractometer is no more able to determine sugar content than a hydrometer .
They both simply give a reading due to the density of the liquid . The density causes a hydrometer to float , the amount of floatation is relative to density .
A refractometer uses the refractive index ( due to density) to bent the light and give a relative reading.

Neither of them can differentiate between the sugar or any other material that is in the liquid .

A refractometer is useful to select a drop of fruit juice from the surrounding pulp . But it is of no benefit when it comes to Molasses .

Sure , you’ll see brix readings used a lot in Rum making , but they have no actual bearing on the amount of fermentable sugar in it .They are simply figures quoted by producers that use the same Molasses and know how much it is an how much to dilute it go get the particular wash they want

[sadie33]

Personally Sadie, I would stick with the recipe.
I've just run a SBB that was a fairly low yield.
The product however is top notch, it's not all about volume, if it was I'd be solely doing SSS and using essence.
Stick with the all molly it's worth it

I'm SO glad you said this because I have been looking at other recipes in the T&T, and they scare me.

[sadie33]

I believe a refractometer is no more able to determine sugar content than a hydrometer .
They both simply give a reading due to the density of the liquid . The density causes a hydrometer to float , the amount of floatation is relative to density .
A refractometer uses the refractive index ( due to density) to bent the light and give a relative reading.

Neither of them can differentiate between the sugar or any other material that is in the liquid .

A refractometer is useful to select a drop of fruit juice from the surrounding pulp . But it is of no benefit when it comes to Molasses .

Sure , you’ll see brix readings used a lot in Rum making , but they have no actual bearing on the amount of fermentable sugar in it .They are simply figures quoted by producers that use the same Molasses and know how much it is an how much to dilute it go get the particular wash they want

okay, thanks. This is good to know.

[sadie33]

… What do you mean by I cut some of the collection out?

Cut some of the heads and foreshots from your stripping run, ie - the low wines collection was less that what came off the spout throughout the (strip) run.
ss

I toss 100 ml for fores. They came out at 55%. After that I kept running till my whole collection jar was at 30%. I was going lower than that in my other stripping runs, bot for some reason wrote in my notes not to.

[NZChris]

For a 6 gallon rum strip, I'd usually take a maximum of 150ml of foreshot. There are some essential flavors that come over early, so you shouldn't be too aggressive with the foreshot.

I stick a finger in a new batch of molasses and taste it. If I don't particularly like it, I'll stop the strips at 30%, otherwise they go to 27% or lower, depending on what I'm making.

On the first ferment, I use the OG and FG to calculate the fermentables in the molasses so that I can adjust my recipe for the subsequent ferments. I've seen a few recipes that aim for around 10% ABV, but I prefer 8%. If it's only a bit over, I don't bother correcting it.

If you add, for example, the same amount of sugar as there is in the molasses, you will double the yield, but the flavor will be spread out over twice as much product. It isn't necessarily a bad thing, you might like it that way, rum from Panela is even lighter flavored.

[sadie33]

I did a 5 gal ferment (didn't have big enough buckets for the full recipe).

I usually toss 200 ml in a 4 gal charge, so I tossed 100 in a 2 gal charge.

I did do the ABV just for my notes, it came out to 5.91%. I tasted the molasses before I did the ferment and it was very bitter. I was thinking of adding some brown sugar into the hot backset after this stripping run (2 gal charge again) and do everything else the same. I don't know how much to add though. I was thinking 1lb?

I am doing the 2nd stripping of my 5 gal ferment now, then starting my next ferment.

[sadie33]

I will toss 50 ml for fores.

[sadie33]

I'm also going to collect enough from this batch to make my total of the 2 batches 25% unless what's coming off the spout is really gross.

[still_stirrin]

… I did do the ABV just for my notes, it came out to 5.91%.

I tasted the molasses before I did the ferment and it was very bitter…

Bitter??? Or, sour? The tastes are different.

—> “Bitter” is astringent, making you want to drink a sip of water. Bitterness will be perceived on the sides of your tongue.
—> “Sour” is tart, making you want to “pucker”. Sourness will be perceived on your tongue, in the middle of it.

Earl Grey tea leaves are bitter.
Lemons are sour.

But, I would be surprised if molasses, even farm-grade feed molasses, was either sour or bitter. I would be suspect of the freshness, or possible bacterial contamination at the source. Molasses is made from sugarcane or sometimes beets. Either should have a sweet taste above all, even if there were other off-tastes in the syrup.

Perhaps dilution with water brought out more of the “other crud” in the molly’s taste profile.
How did the raw molasses smell? Musty? Skunky? Or, like gingerbread cookies?

Learn to use your senses. It’ll teach you a lot about brewing (and distilling).
ss

[sadie33]

It was bitter. It didn't taste sweet at all or smell sweet. It had a nice look when I poured it in the bucket. It was smooth and easy to pour from the pour spout. (I had it next to the fire place all night to warm).

The grain store did say it was their last bucket so who knows how long it has been there.

[sadie33]

I was able to collect a total of 25% for the combines two batches. I got almost 1 gal for my 5 gal ferment. I kept tasting it off the spout (10%) and it tastes like sweet molasses water, I rubbed it on my palm and it smelled like fresh ground coffee and molasses. So I kept going. I think when I got to 25%, it was coming off the spout around 5%. Never went that low before, but it still seemed good.

I can't believe that black wash turned into such a clear product! It didn't puke once.

A picture of my trub and my Low wines. Not sure what I'm gonna do with the trub. I want to do something with it, but I just don't know what that is yet. I think I will wait a bit before moving on to saving trub.

rum trub.JPG (10.94 KiB) Viewed 2454 times

Rum LW.JPG (14.13 KiB) Viewed 2454 times

[still_stirrin]

… A picture of my trub and my Low wines. Not sure what I'm gonna do with the trub…

Is it from the fermenter or the boiler?

Trub is the bottoms from the fermenter after you rack off the wash.
Dunder is the sludge left in the boiler from a rum wash strip.

Your photo looks like it came from the boiler, ie - dunder. Is it?

Believe it or not, nomenclature matters … especially if you need help withsomething.
ss

[sadie33]

… A picture of my trub and my Low wines. Not sure what I'm gonna do with the trub…

Is it from the fermenter or the boiler?

Trub is the bottoms from the fermenter after you rack off the wash.
Dunder is the sludge left in the boiler from a rum wash strip.

Your photo looks like it came from the boiler, ie - dunder. Is it?

Believe it or not, nomenclature matters … especially if you need help withsomething.
ss

Def trub. I swirled my fermenter till all the yeast at the bottom was mixed in then drained it in the bowl. I used my dunder to start my next ferment (not all of it, only 1 gal). It's fizzing now

I have no idea what nomenclature is...I will have to look it up.

[sadie33]

If you wrote everything down, you should be able to calculate how much sugar was in the molasses.

Somehow I miss posts. This is one I missed.

How can I figure out how much sugar is in it? I wrote down everything I thought to write down. (What did I NEED to write down?)

[NZChris]

I already posted what I do. Scroll up.

[sadie33]

For a 6 gallon rum strip, I'd usually take a maximum of 150ml of foreshot. There are some essential flavors that come over early, so you shouldn't be too aggressive with the foreshot.

I stick a finger in a new batch of molasses and taste it. If I don't particularly like it, I'll stop the strips at 30%, otherwise they go to 27% or lower, depending on what I'm making.

On the first ferment, I use the OG and FG to calculate the fermentables in the molasses so that I can adjust my recipe for the subsequent ferments. I've seen a few recipes that aim for around 10% ABV, but I prefer 8%. If it's only a bit over, I don't bother correcting it.

If you add, for example, the same amount of sugar as there is in the molasses, you will double the yield, but the flavor will be spread out over twice as much product. It isn't necessarily a bad thing, you might like it that way, rum from Panela is even lighter flavored.

This was your last post...I don't see from this how to find out how much sugar is in my molasses... am I missing something?

[subbrew]

. Not sure what I'm gonna do with the trub. I want to do something with it, but I just don't know what that is yet.

Sounds like time for another bread experiment

[subbrew]

If you went to 5% on your last stripping run you will have all the alcohol out, or close enough to assume. I don't believe you said what the %abv of your second strip was, just 25% combined. For an example I will say you got 1 gallon of low wines at 25% from your 5 gallon of boiler charge. 25% of a gallon is 4 cups or 1 quart. Since we are assuming you stripped it all out of the boiler that mean the 5 gallons started with 1 quart of alcohol. So the % is 1/(5gal x 4 qt per gal) = 1/20 = 5%. So in this example your ferment ended at 5%.

Now you determine how much molasses you need for your next one by scaling up to down. For example of you wanted to target 8% on your next ferment you would increase the molasses in the recipe by 60% over what you used this time.

[NZChris]

Use the OG & FG to find out how much alcohol was produced the same as you can for any wash, wine, beer etc., then calculate how much sugar there was in the fermenter.

If you recorded how much molasses you put in the fermenter, you can then work out how much sugar was in it per Kg, lb, Liter, gallon, whatever measurement you were using.

[sadie33]

Thank you subbrew and NZChris. I am going to have to read those responses like 100x before I understand what they say...All I can think about is my 9th grade math class and telling my teacher-"I am NEVER going to need this!" I can't tell you how many times I need to use math with just my hobbies!! I stink at it.