How often does copper need to be cleaned? Also a question about silicone tubing

[omarkeung]

Two questions for the forum:
1.) How often does copper need to be cleaned? I know the blue copper sulfate that forms during the distillation of materials containing trace amounts of sulfur is considered toxic and should not be consumed. My question is, how often is everyone out there cleaning their copper components? Generally, I've been only doing about two full runs before I dismantle the whole assembly and throw all the copper components into that 5:5:1 cleaning solution (hydrogen peroxide, citric acid and water mixture). I admit, every time I do this, the cleaning solution ends up a bright blue color, leading me to think "gosh, I'm glad I cleaned the copper because look at all this copper sulfate I could've been ingesting" However, it is possible I am overdoing it? I've heard some people talk about a 'patina" that they like to form on their copper components. Well, cleaning the copper as often as every two runs, does not allow for enough time to pass for that magic patina to form. How do big industrial distilleries that use large copper pot still do it? How often are they cleaning the copper down?

2.) I read a comment somewhere recently in a youtube video (I think) where someone was poo-pooing the idea of putting a piece of silicone tubing at the bottom of the condenser (in order to better direct the distilled spirit into the collection jars). Did I miss something? I thought silicone was food safe and would not leech out/absorb any flavors? Is silicone tubing "bad"?

[Sporacle]

Right down below us is a link
app.php/rules
Enough said on that

Cleaning, as long as the initial protocols have been done and you are running fairly often then you may never have to clean your still.
Heavy oiled and flavoured products or changing from Gins to Nuetrals may need some attention.
I just give mine a rinse with clean water after each use

[jonnys_spirit]

I clean my cooper stills with hot ethanol vapor for 6-8hrs then rinse with water

Cheers,
J

[NormandieStill]

Generally, I've been only doing about two full runs before I dismantle the whole assembly and throw all the copper components into that 5:5:1 cleaning solution (hydrogen peroxide, citric acid and water mixture). I admit, every time I do this, the cleaning solution ends up a bright blue color, leading me to think "gosh, I'm glad I cleaned the copper because look at all this copper sulfate I could've been ingesting"

Take a scrap of copper and stick it in your solution until it comes out sparkly. Rinse it, dry it. Maybe leave it a few hours. Now do it again with fresh solution. Does the solution still change colour? I'm betting it does!

[Saltbush Bill]

I dismantle the whole assembly and throw all the copper components into that 5:5:1 cleaning solution (hydrogen peroxide, citric acid and water mixture).

You've spent way to much time watching some of those screwy YouTube channels.
Interested to know where this 5:5:1 solution idea comes from......I think I know.
The left over backset or dunder from you last run will do the same job of cleaning your copper., as will plain old citric and water. Absolutely no need for the peroxide.
Mine might get a good clean every few years, the rest of the time it's a rinse with the garden hose.

I thought silicone was food safe

Something to consider, is your still producing food or a ethanol, acetone, methanol mix? just to name a few of the components , all high strength solvents.
The forums stance on synthetics use in distilling is clearly stated in the forum Rules.

[Swedish Pride]

Last time i clean cleaned the copper was after i soldered the bits together.

[Bushman]

Last time i clean cleaned the copper was after i soldered the bits together.

I cleaned it once since 2010, but it has sat for a long time so will probably do it again soon just because of the possible dust in my outbuilding.

[Swedish Pride]

I reckon once a decade is about right on the money bushy

[shadylane]

I hook a hose to the end of the product condenser and back flush the column packing after every run.
When making whiskey, a wire brush is used to clean the inside of the copper condenser every 5 or 6 runs.

[Bushman]

I hook a hose to the end of the product condenser and back flush the column packing after every run.
When making whiskey, a wire brush is used to clean the inside of the copper condenser every 5 or 6 runs.

I also rinse and back flush after each run.

[Wildcats]

I use warm water from my 30 gal cooling barrel. Dry it all off. And put it away.

[Wildcats]

Oh yeah and


Silicone Bad, Stay Away.

[Yummyrum]

If you clean with Citric acid , the blue stuff will be Copper Citrate .

If you clean it with Sulphuric acid , you’ll get Copper Sulphate.

Clean it with Nitric acid and you’ll end up with a blue Copper Nitrate solution , no copper left and a lung full of Nitrogen Dioxide …. Well until your lungs dissolve . Probably best not to do this LOL

Clean it with Vinegar , ( Acetic Acid) and you’ll get a green -blue Copper Acetate .

Personally , I don’t clean my copper . I find clean copper gives the booze a metallic flavour .

[MooseMan]

Two questions for the forum:
1.) How often does copper need to be cleaned? I know the blue copper sulfate that forms during the distillation of materials containing trace amounts of sulfur is considered toxic and should not be consumed. My question is, how often is everyone out there cleaning their copper components? Generally, I've been only doing about two full runs before I dismantle the whole assembly and throw all the copper components into that 5:5:1 cleaning solution (hydrogen peroxide, citric acid and water mixture). I admit, every time I do this, the cleaning solution ends up a bright blue color, leading me to think "gosh, I'm glad I cleaned the copper because look at all this copper sulfate I could've been ingesting" However, it is possible I am overdoing it? I've heard some people talk about a 'patina" that they like to form on their copper components. Well, cleaning the copper as often as every two runs, does not allow for enough time to pass for that magic patina to form. How do big industrial distilleries that use large copper pot still do it? How often are they cleaning the copper down?

2.) I read a comment somewhere recently in a youtube video (I think) where someone was poo-pooing the idea of putting a piece of silicone tubing at the bottom of the condenser (in order to better direct the distilled spirit into the collection jars). Did I miss something? I thought silicone was food safe and would not leech out/absorb any flavors? Is silicone tubing "bad"?

It's all been said already, but you really don't need to do this, all you are really doing is eating your copper away bit by bit and making toxic metal salts.

The peroxide is a bug killer/sanitiser and a total waste of money in this scenario. It's also a really strong oxidiser and is doing the polar opposite of the citric acid. Very confusing.

Make a little coil out of copper wire and put that in the end of your condenser. Sorted.

[Saltbush Bill]

If you clean with Citric acid , the blue stuff will be Copper Citrate .

If you clean it with Sulphuric acid , you’ll get Copper Sulphate.

Clean it with Nitric acid and you’ll end up with a blue Copper Nitrate solution , no copper left and a lung full of Nitrogen Dioxide …. Well until your lungs dissolve . Probably best not to do this LOL

Clean it with Vinegar , ( Acetic Acid) and you’ll get a green -blue Copper Acetate .

Just as a matter of interest Yummy, what do I get if I clean my copper with backset?......besides a shiny still?

[Yummyrum]

If you clean with Citric acid , the blue stuff will be Copper Citrate .

If you clean it with Sulphuric acid , you’ll get Copper Sulphate.

Clean it with Nitric acid and you’ll end up with a blue Copper Nitrate solution , no copper left and a lung full of Nitrogen Dioxide …. Well until your lungs dissolve . Probably best not to do this LOL

Clean it with Vinegar , ( Acetic Acid) and you’ll get a green -blue Copper Acetate .

Just as a matter of interest Yummy, what do I get if I clean my copper with backset?......besides a shiny still?

Fucked if I know Salty .

Just some pinky clean copper .

You raise a good question . What acid is backset or Dunder .

[MooseMan]

That is a good question!
It's probably a mixture of several organic acids and probably not that low in pH in reality.

I'd guess acetic/citric/malic/phosphoric/oxalic and so on, in tiny amounts, the main being acetic.

[Twisted Brick]

When making whiskey, a wire brush is used to clean the inside of the copper condenser every 5 or 6 runs.

This is a good practice to remove the oils from tails that come over at a leisurely speed closer to the end of a run. To retain the patina in each of my condenser's vapor tubes, I use a nylon brush instead of wire to remove the oily brown residue that accumulates.

[Dee Envy]

Just as a matter of interest Yummy, what do I get if I clean my copper with backset?......besides a shiny still?

You would get Copper Backsate..............lol

[Deplorable]

When making whiskey, a wire brush is used to clean the inside of the copper condenser every 5 or 6 runs.

This is a good practice to remove the oils from tails that come over at a leisurely speed closer to the end of a run. To retain the patina in each of my condenser's vapor tubes, I use a nylon brush instead of wire to remove the oily brown residue that accumulates.

+1
I employ a nylon bristle shotgun bore brush on a rifle cleaning rod to clean the gunk out of my condenser followed by paper towels soaked in neutral.

[Twisted Brick]

+1
I employ a nylon bristle shotgun bore brush on a rifle cleaning rod to clean the gunk out of my condenser followed by paper towels soaked in neutral.

16-gauge, yeah?

[Deplorable]

+1
I employ a nylon bristle shotgun bore brush on a rifle cleaning rod to clean the gunk out of my condenser followed by paper towels soaked in neutral.

16-gauge, yeah?

20-gauge. Tight fit, and it gives a good scrub. I imagine a 20 gauge bore snake soaked in heads would work really well too.

[omarkeung]

It's all been said already, but you really don't need to do this, all you are really doing is eating your copper away bit by bit and making toxic metal salts.

The peroxide is a bug killer/sanitiser and a total waste of money in this scenario. It's also a really strong oxidiser and is doing the polar opposite of the citric acid. Very confusing.

Make a little coil out of copper wire and put that in the end of your condenser. Sorted.

Thanks for the easy solution! I will do that on my next run.

Cleaning, as long as the initial protocols have been done and you are running fairly often then you may never have to clean your still.
Heavy oiled and flavoured products or changing from Gins to Nuetrals may need some attention.
I just give mine a rinse with clean water after each use

What is a good way to clean heavy oils and waxy buildup (I'm thinking from honey distillation) from the inside of the condenser? Dish soap?
What about the little wads of copper mesh that I pack my column with? Sometimes they come out almost grey/black in color with a very noticeable "film" of oily waxy residue on them --how do you suggest I clean them?

If you clean with Citric acid , the blue stuff will be Copper Citrate .

If you clean it with Sulphuric acid , you’ll get Copper Sulphate.

Clean it with Nitric acid and you’ll end up with a blue Copper Nitrate solution , no copper left and a lung full of Nitrogen Dioxide …. Well until your lungs dissolve . Probably best not to do this LOL

Clean it with Vinegar , ( Acetic Acid) and you’ll get a green -blue Copper Acetate .

Personally , I don’t clean my copper . I find clean copper gives the booze a metallic flavour .

This is great info, thank you for explaining all of these reactions.

Oh yeah and

Silicone Bad, Stay Away.

Got it.

Thank you all for the feedback and info. In the future I won't be so OCD about cleaning the copper.... However, the videos I saw that initially addressed this information talked about a need to clean copper because sometimes the distillate comes out blue/green, indicating that the copper needs to be cleaned. Has this happened to any of you? Do you ever get blue distillate? I remember seeing several videos that talked about this --Barley and Hops (I know this forum hates him), but also Jesse from Still It (as far as I know, he is still respected on these forums) also addressed in a troubleshooting video the possibility of blue distillate --so does this happen?

[squigglefunk]

if you have a copper worm condenser then I would be more worried about making sure there is no tails pooling inside it, if your still is made of straight tubes just make sure they are able to drain clean and dry. a rinse every now and then can't hurt but soaking in some solution like you mention as far as I know does more harm than good.

[JustinNZ]

Hey man. I got the blue distillate from my sacrificial sugar-wash - but I was expecting it. I ran 50L of wash through till I’d collected about 10-15 litres of Blue Lagoon. Flashbacks, anyone? I’d done a 50% vinegar soak and boil prior to that, following a good water scrub with a plastic brush. I haven’t had any blue since. Like the others, I rinse out after running molasses washes (bit of a scrub too before spirit runs to get wall-shite off), then drain and she’s all ready to go next time.

Most of us run our stills regularly I imagine, but if I was leaving it for a few weeks or longer I’d make sure it was clean (better rinsing) and dry while waiting.

That said, I kept my vinegar mix and I would consider using it for a quick soak, scrub and rinse in the future. I don’t know for sure, but like soap and dogs, stills have a self-cleaning function - especially when running a tub of cleanish low wines.