10 liter Portuguese Copper Alembic too big for a dedicated gin still?

[OttoFoasson]

I want to start making gin. I understand that you will need two different stills (or still heads) for that. For the gin run a traditional Alembic copper still seems to work. I understand that it is primitive, but I think I like that.

An Alembic still is cheap and seems to be a good way to start. If I want to keep doing it, it will be a good dedicated gin still (tell me if you disagree).

I might get a reflux still later, but for now I’ll start with either storebought vodka or homemade double distilled spirit (even if it is cumbersome and not neutral enough).

I want to use it on my gas stove, so the 10 liter (2.6 gallons) version is pretty much the biggest option for me. Is it too big for small gin experiments?

I my mind the 5 liter version would be way too small for sugar wash distilling, while the 10 liter version would still be small for that, but could work to a certain degree. The ability to run small sugar washes isn’t a priority, but would be a fun bonus. Hence my original question.

I’m planning to buy one of the simple models from Iberian Coppers, Copper Special Alembics or Cobrelis. Any recommendations here are much appreciated!

The Alembic-shaped part should fit a suspended cheesecloth bag with botanicals. Not sure if the copper sieve (false bottom) are needed for macerated botanicals…

If you have other still recommendations for a novice, please let me know! EU availability is almost a must, though.

Thanks a lot for a great forum!

[SouthwestAl]

I've used Iberian Coppers for my mini-stills in the Gin School, and at 1,5 litres, they are perfect for distilling a single 750ml bottle of Gin, and also doing a few extracts of individual botanicals. They are a good company to work with, and having ordered from them many times, with delivery to Brazil, I've never had a problem.

On the Iberian Coppers site, did you look at the 10 L Reflux Column & Soldered Moonshine Distiller Set Premium? This has a reflux head and the standard head, which would achieve both of your goals, although I would say they won't give you much upgrade path, as they don't use flanges that you can add other columns onto.

As for heating - it's not going to weigh more than 20kg fully loaded (10kg of liquid + 6kg of copper), if your cooktop will support that, then it should do the job.

As for is it too big for small Gin experiments - I would say yes. You would possibly be better off starting with a 2,5 L Distilling Column Alembic Premium, Thermometer & Electric Plate (from Iberian Coppers) which will comfortably do 2 bottles of Gin finished product, and give you the chance to experiment with the recipe, and then look for something else to make your own GNS as and when the need arises.

If you are doing it for your own consumption and fun, then a smaller one will let you make smaller batches and more frequently. You can run 1 litre of maceration in about 40 minutes on the 2,5 litre model, producing around 500ml at 78% abv.

[OttoFoasson]

Thanks for the reply! Very informative. I didn’t even think about distilling a single botanical. 2,5 liter or maybe 5 probably suits me better.

These are the ones I looked at:

https://www.copper-alembic.com/en/start ... tarter-kit

https://www.cobrelis.com/en/alembic-gin ... hermometer

https://copper-special-alembics.com/loj ... ation-top/

I’ll keep looking around a bit. I think my father-in-law has an old LabMaster still (old primitive column still that used to be common in Sweden). If I use that, I have no need for a big Alembic.

[NZChris]

I've successfully run a 500ml charge in a 3l copper alembic.

How small do you want to go?

[Golly]

Their is a couple reasons you would distill a single botanical.
1: To see what the flavour is when distilled. Trying it both macerated, and in the vapour path will give different results
2: To make a concentrate of a particular herb. Which you can then dose future products with. SO if you make a gin, and you think there is not enough of a certain flavour, you just add a few ml from your concentrate.

Hope that helps.

EDIT: I thought you were talking about distilling up to 5 botanicals, but you meant Litres of spirit. My bad.

[jonnys_spirit]

I use the 10l Alembic for maceration/vapor infusion spirits. You can charge it with up to about 2g or so of 40% base spirit plus botanicals. That’s a fairly large batch in my mind for a macerated spirit. Running with a hot plate or gas you could probably do as little as a liter it so. Bump the abv down to 20-30% if you’re concerned about running dry. I think it’s great for small-larger batch maceration style spirits.

If I charge it with low wines around 30%abv I get about 1/2g ~60% hearts after cuts. Not much but I use it in that capacity when I have limited ingredients. One strip run on the large still yields enough low wines for two spirit runs on the 10l alembic.

I find it very handy for a ton of things along with the larger 16g boiler. Good complement IMO.

I would feel like it’s more of a chore to strip three charges to then do a single spirit run for 1/2g take.

I did get the split top alembic which has a nice sized riser for various botanicals when charging with an already cut base spirit.

Hope that’s helpful info.

Cheers,
Jonny

[OttoFoasson]

Thanks for all the answers! Both 10l and 5l seems too big for what I need/want. I think I’ll go with this:

https://www.copper-alembic.com/en/split ... mbic-still

Small enough for experiments and single botanical runs, big enough for 2-3 bottles. Will fit on the stove top and in my cabinet.

Do I need a thermometer on the head? (Or both on the head and swan neck?)

[NZChris]

I have one of those without the riser/basket, bought it cheap on an online auction site. It does a great job and I don't need the insert for what I make.

IMHO, inline gin baskets are overrated by enthusiastic salesmen, newbies and Youtubers and are only really needed for specific styles of gin.

Offset gin baskets are the best choice for some styles of gin, but you have to be careful because there are plenty of sellers offering overpriced, undersized, SS bling posing as Carter Heads.

[OttoFoasson]

Distillique on Youtube has a video showing their simple cheese cloth inserts. Can’t find the specific video, but it’s very simple. It consist of a thin, flexible steel ring with a cloth bag sewn on to it. Like a tea strainer, more or less. The flexible ring just fits inside the alembic head. Looks like a smart and cheap solution to vapor infusions.

May be better than an insert/column even? With the insert I get one more connection to seal. I probably need to keep the botanicals in a cloth bag anyways. Without the insert I can get the 5l for the same price and the same storing space. And get som more volume for a hanging cloth bag inside.

Do you guys regulate the still by temperature or just by speed of outtake, ABV and taste/smell? Or in other words, do I need a thermometer on a small still like this?

Again, many thanks for the answers.

[NZChris]

Youtube is well populated by newbies making stuff up to get your attention.

A lot of home distillers have made a lot of different gins without watching Youtube and by putting everything in the boiler without any bags or baskets.

None of my gin stills have a thermometer.

[Saltbush Bill]

Youtube is well populated by newbies making stuff up to get your attention.
A lot of home distillers have made a lot of different gins without watching Youtube and by putting everything in the boiler without any bags or baskets.

Agree 100% with what Chris says there .........You don't need thermometers to make gin with a pot still........but you do need to know where to cut the run. Do that visually and by smell and taste.
Collect in small Jars if you are only running a couple of liters of gin at a time............run till you get to the first cloudy jar then stop. This is where the earthy flavors like those that come from Cassia begin to dominate.
You wont want that jar or a few before it in your "keeper jar"......how many that "few" is ...is your call.
Learn to make a good Gin using just maceration and a pot still before trying more complex methods.
Personally I think gin baskets and carter heads are a waste of time and money.

[OttoFoasson]

Thanks for your down-to-earth answers. I’ll go simple.

Could the tails and even what’s left in the still be saved and redistilled in a reflux column? Or will the taste remain too strong?

[Saltbush Bill]

Could the tails and even what’s left in the still be saved and redistilled in a reflux column? O

Whats left in the boiler by the time that you finish the run is of such low ABV that its not worth keeping.
Most people make a very small heads cut at the beginning of the run, this is where a lot of the oils that cause louching are.
At times I've kept that heads cut and the tail end jars of the run and added them to the next gin run, The gin version of adding feints back if you like.
I'm still undecided about that idea, I cant say it makes a worse gin, but at the same time cant say its better.......I think maybe it just adds a little more flavor and you may get a little more "keeper" spirit.

[MooseMan]

Thanks for your down-to-earth answers. I’ll go simple.

Could the tails and even what’s left in the still be saved and redistilled in a reflux column? Or will the taste remain too strong?

Throw the backset and used botanicals down the toilet.

But the tails and tiny foreshot from each run should absolutely be kept!

I save all of my gin tails until I have enough for a run, add the same botanicals as usual and get pretty much the same product yield as usual, but it's a highly flavoured gin so then I add neutral to it as required to get it where I want.

It tastes even better cos it's like free gin!

[OttoFoasson]

Ordered a simple “5 L Soldered Copper Moonshine Alembic Still” from Iberian Coppers. 160 euros with taxes and global shipping, not too bad… This will be fun!

[MooseMan]

Ordered a simple “5 L Soldered Copper Moonshine Alembic Still” from Iberian Coppers. 160 euros with taxes and global shipping, not too bad… This will be fun!

Read and absorb every post in the OEG thread while you're waiting for it to arrive!

[OttoFoasson]

I have macerated myself in the OEG thread for a while now. And today my still arrived!

I noticed that the condensing bucket only has one pipe for the water. Every condensing bucket I have seen before has two (one close to the bottom, one close the top). Mine has one on the top only.

Are you supposed to just stick the water hose into the bucket and use the top to drain it? Or pour water manually into it?

The still is only 5l, but surely some circulation of the cold water is needed, right?

I’m doing a vinegar run and then a sacrificial run. The manual only calls for a water run before first use, but better safe than sorry.

[MooseMan]

I have macerated myself in the OEG thread for a while now. And today my still arrived!

I noticed that the condensing bucket only has one pipe for the water. Every condensing bucket I have seen before has two (one close to the bottom, one close the top). Mine has one on the top only.

Are you supposed to just stick the water hose into the bucket and use the top to drain it? Or pour water manually into it?

The still is only 5l, but surely some circulation of the cold water is needed, right?

I’m doing a vinegar run and then a sacrificial run. The manual only calls for a water run before first use, but better safe than sorry.

A good read eh!

Ignore the "Manual" that came with the still and yes you want to do a vinegar run, then a sacrificial alcohol run, you'll see why when the sac run starts dripping out.

If you don't have a water out on your worm bucket, you could always put it into another vessel with an out, and let it overflow into that?
A deep pan or cut down bucket or something?
Or just drop frozen water bottles in for now until you can sort it.

[jonnys_spirit]

You really want cold water in at the bottom and hot water out at the top so there is a temperature gradient with cold or cool at the bottom and hot at the top.

Sticking a hose down into the bottom will achieve this.

I modified my alembic to use a vertical liebig for PC and a shorter vertical liebig above the riser section for some forced reflux just for options. Personally not a fan of worms unless they're in the bottom of a bottle of mezcal.

Cheers,
jonny

[SouthwestAl]

I have macerated myself in the OEG thread for a while now. And today my still arrived!

I noticed that the condensing bucket only has one pipe for the water. Every condensing bucket I have seen before has two (one close to the bottom, one close the top). Mine has one on the top only.

That's strange - I only have the small ones, but they all have an inlet and and outlet for the cooling water. That said, I just saw a video on their instagram account that shows the same - a hose is used to fill it, and the top one is for the hot water outlet.

[NZChris]

That's strange - I only have the small ones, but they all have an inlet and and outlet for the cooling water. That said, I just saw a video on their instagram account that shows the same - a hose is used to fill it, and the top one is for the hot water outlet.

It also has a plastic hose on the product outlet, a giveaway that it is posted by someone who is still making beginner mistakes.

[jonnys_spirit]

That's strange - I only have the small ones, but they all have an inlet and and outlet for the cooling water. That said, I just saw a video on their instagram account that shows the same - a hose is used to fill it, and the top one is for the hot water outlet.

It also has a plastic hose on the product outlet, a giveaway that it is posted by someone who is still making beginner mistakes.

It says "Distilling hydrosols and a hint of essential oils" so there my not even be ETOH in there nor intended for consumption... /js

Cheers,
jonny

[NZChris]

Maybe he wants to preheat the cooling water for hydrosols? It's not something I'd recommend for gin.

[OttoFoasson]

Thanks. I’ll just stick the cold water hose down the bottom and drain through the top outlet.

Is “drip-drip-splurt” a reasonable speed to run it. Or should I distill a bit slower (drip-drip-drip)?

[NZChris]

I like to make mine take at least an hour. After the first 100ml, I calculate if I need to adjust the heating. Once I'm happy with the takeoff speed, I seldom adjust it until after I've stopped collecting the gin hearts.

[NZChris]

BTW, I had the opportunity to buy one of these 10l stills a couple of days ago. I didn't bid because it is an in-between size for me, too large for my gin experiments, too small for most of my other needs. Whoever won the auction got a bargain.

Most of my gin experiments have been done using home built stills made using saucepans and steamers from charity shops and condensers and risers made from copper from scrapyards.

The gin I'm running tomorrow will be done in a second hand 3l copper alembic I got cheap from an online auction.

[MooseMan]

BTW, I had the opportunity to buy one of these 10l stills a couple of days ago. I didn't bid because it is an in-between size for me, too large for my gin experiments, too small for most of my other needs. Whoever won the auction got a bargain.

Most of my gin experiments have been done using home built stills made using saucepans and steamers from charity shops and condensers and risers made from copper from scrapyards.

The gin I'm running tomorrow will be done in a second hand 3l copper alembic I got cheap from an online auction.

Do you think that the alembic adds anything to the party with gin then Chris?

[NZChris]

Not unless you only have an all SS still and no way to add copper to it. I especially like it for when I want to make gin on the table in front of guests.

For Bombay style gins, I have a better still.

[OttoFoasson]

An update:

The still looked great right out of the box. My wife loved the look of it, so that’s a big plus.

I cleaned the still, did a vinegar run and then a sac run with a bottle of forgotten, cheap wine. I tried to take cuts just for practice, but due to a cold (Covid?) I had no smell whatsoever. Hardly smelled the vinegar and definitely not the finer notes of the distilled wine.

In my first “real” run I distilled a bottle of glögg (Swedish fortified glühwein). My smell was back and this came out smelling wonderful. Except a minimal foreshot I collected it and added some bitter orange peel and a very small amount of honey. Will be great to the Christmas food. I’m definitely going to distill homemade glögg again in the future.

Then I ran 7,5 liters of quince and apple cider (or wine, I added some sugar) in divided in two runs. I had some problems with both pH and temperatures making the mash, so the cider was not as good as expected. But the distilled product smelled great! The heads had a lot of ripe apple. The second half had lots of perfumed rose from the quince. I will probably run most of it one more time, though.

Next up is real gin from store bought vodka. Just ordered junipers.

Thanks for all the guidance, your answers seems on point.

[OttoFoasson]

5 liters seems to be a good size. It fits my small kitchen and counter top. It handled 750ml of wine nicely, so small batches of gin experiments will work.

Obviously way too small for distilling cider economically, but if you want to do it as an experiment, for fun or to learn doing it, it works. The cuts will be small, too small for my alcohol meter almost.

I would say that the capacity of the pot is around 3,5 liters. It’s probably ok to fill it a bit more, but 3,5 seems ideal to me.

The 10 liter version I first looked at would probably have been a bad choice: too big for small gin experiments, too small for running washes. At least for me.

I could have bought the 3 liter version instead, but the price difference is small and the 5 liter is small enough.

Next step is probably getting a bigger pot still or a simple reflux still, but no hurry. I thought I wanted a really good reflux still, but I’m not sure I care as much about perfectly neutral base spirit any more. It seems more fun to learn to make good mashes and let it influence the final product. Or buy vodka for traditional gin…