Something Happened With This Ferment

[brewbob]

Ok, let's start with the recipe and process.
18 lb. cracked corn
2 lb. 2-row malt
2 lb. rye malt
2 lb. 10 oz. oats
1 tsp amylase
1 tsp yeast energizer
10 gal water
2 gal backset
Bakers yeast
1.063 potential

Added corn and oats to fermenter. Boiled water and backset then poured over grain. Frequent mixing with paint mixer on a drill. 194°f once mixed. Let cook for 2 hours with minimal temp drop, 189°f after the cook. Used wort chiller to drop to 160°f, added malt, enzymes and nutrients. Again, frequent mixing. Mashed for 2 hours, passed iodine test. Used wort chiller to drop temp to ~88-90°f, pitched yeast, active within an hour. Put the lid on the fermenter, covered with blanket (garage thermostat set at 60°f) and walked away.

3 days later... wanted to check progress as the temp had started to drop. Took the lid off and boom, right away vomit smell or at least something similar. SG was at 1.010, no visible signs of infection, bubbles had slowed down. Covered back up for 24 hrs. SG was still 1.010 so I racked into secondary fermenter (was fermented on grain) to finish and clear. Added a small amount of ec-1118 assuming the bakers yeast might be at its alc tolerance.

So, here we are 2 days into secondary. It finished right at 1.000, cleared up as normal, still stinks, doesn't taste off. Interestingly the smell seems to subside a little and take on a kinda fruity smell when I racked into gallon jugs to store in fridge but it's there.

For the questions;
1. Brettanomyces?
2. What did I do wrong?
3. I'm sure the smell will pull through, anyway to get rid of it?
4. Before or after distaliation, see below.

Now if it is Brettanomyces I've heard letting it sit can clear up the smell and even add some nice notes to the nose, is this before or after distaliation. Would this be destined to reflux the crap outta for a neutral, would that even work?

I will carry on with this like any other ferment just to see, already spent the money and took the time to mash. I have harvested some of the yeast, will run as normal, save backset, that can all be poured out later but don't want to skip steps just incase it is saved or even something unique.

Thoughts?

[OtisT]

My thoughts are that you are gonna be fine running that as is. The vomit smell should be gone after the strip. That’s been my experience when I got a similar smell in one or two past ferments. I’ve not had that happen often, and it’s been a while. Interested in what other folk’s experience has been. Good luck.

[Bradster68]

How much yeast did u pitch originally?
Did you make a starter?
I'm with Otis, I'm sure it's fine. Iv had funky smell before( my mashes that is).


Edit: maybe a wild yeast? They go through some various smells.

[NZChris]

Searches should get numerous hits. E.g.,
https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3A ... nt=gws-wiz

[ThomasBrewer]

LAB and spore-forming bacilli are able to survive the mashing process and are very common on malts. If you've got the ability, mashing-out at 170F after saccharification can really help with that. I like to mash on the thick side, and then cold sparge to help bring the temp down to pitching range.

[Twisted Brick]

Surprisingly, rogue yeasts (and some bacteria) resident on your grain can survive mash temps and show up in a converted wash. This is why it is desirable to force chill one's wash rather than wait until the morning to pitch yeast.

Sanitation could have played a role (not saying it did in your case). Dumping your grains into boiling water (rather than the other way around) helps mitigate this, as well as reduce the potential for dough balls that could harbor undesirables.

Conducting a brewer's mash out will certainly denature your enzymes and deprive your ferment continuing to convert trace amounts of residual starches. A mash out can also remove water, elevating your starting gravity.

As an aside, you might want to look at reducing your percentage of backset. Many of us like to add 1-2 quarts for a 15gal mash. The huge amounts of backset (25%) recommended in the past have been largely revised downward. Also note that backset acidity increases over multiple generations.

[brewbob]

My thoughts are that you are gonna be fine running that as is. The vomit smell should be gone after the strip. That’s been my experience when I got a similar smell in one or two past ferments. I’ve not had that happen often, and it’s been a while. Interested in what other folk’s experience has been. Good luck.

Good to hear

How much yeast did u pitch originally?
Did you make a starter?
I'm with Otis, I'm sure it's fine. Iv had funky smell before( my mashes that is).


Edit: maybe a wild yeast? They go through some various smells.

1/4 oz fleischmann's starter. 10 g/100ml starter using Pilsen DME and nutrients at 1.040. 4 days after start. Standard starter for me.
edit. 800ml starter.

LAB and spore-forming bacilli are able to survive the mashing process and are very common on malts. If you've got the ability, mashing-out at 170F after saccharification can really help with that. I like to mash on the thick side, and then cold sparge to help bring the temp down to pitching range.

Thanks for that.

Surprisingly, rogue yeasts (and some bacteria) resident on your grain can survive mash temps and show up in a converted wash. This is why it is desirable to force chill one's wash rather than wait until the morning to pitch yeast.

Sanitation could have played a role (not saying it did in your case). Dumping your grains into boiling water (rather than the other way around) helps mitigate this, as well as reduce the potential for dough balls that could harbor undesirables.

Conducting a brewer's mash out will certainly denature your enzymes and deprive your ferment continuing to convert trace amounts of residual starches. A mash out can also remove water, elevating your starting gravity.

As an aside, you might want to look at reducing your percentage of backset. Many of us like to add 1-2 quarts for a 15gal mash. The huge amounts of backset (25%) recommended in the past have been largely revised downward. Also note that backset acidity increases over multiple generations.

Thank you, all good info.
I worried about the backset as I normally don't sour mash. This was the second generation, first gen with backset in the mash. I inderstand the increasing acidity and had planned to monitor that.