Newbie condensers help

[Alzahra888]

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Just built my first two condensers for a modular build.

I have lots to read about connecting these with fittings and hoses etc.

For finishing up the copper condenser to eliminate the loop at the bottom. Should I be afraid of it kinking? I’d like to get the loop pulled through a little more but don’t want to ruin what I’ve accomplished so far.

[Tōtōchtin]

I did a double coil first using 3/4" then I slide this PVC pipe over then started my winding back up the other direction. If you go this route file the edge of the PVC to a 20 degree bevel,I didn't and made a slight crease that wasn't necessary.
Tōtō

[Salt Must Flow]

You could get a couple of copper 90 elbows and that would eliminate the loop.

[Alzahra888]

Salt, I’ve seen this and have some elbows on standby. But I do admire the one continuous craftsmanship I’ve seen throughout the site and am asking myself if I can get there from here.

Btw I’m thinking this condenser could be PC to accompany a Reflux column so it won’t be used up top but as a dimroth pc and therefore I’m thinking just the one coil, not a double. Does this make sense ?

Tōtōchtin that’s a brilliant idea, thanks. If I go with the double coil I’ll remember that. Not sure how I’d do a double coil now with sawing somewhere to eliminate the finger I’ve threaded or maybe it just pulls out? Never worked with this material before and just suspecting cautiously that maybe it doesn’t like to be twisted about too much.

[Tōtōchtin]

This requires no parts besides the pipe. It doesn't need to be a double coil to use the pipe. Just slide the tube down inside the pipe,pull the tube into that slot and start wrapping going back in the opposite direction. I filled my tube with beach sand. It took less then a 1/2 an hour to fill the tube and bend a double coil.
Tōtō

[Alzahra888]

I will try this. I already cut this copper tubing, unfortunately, but I have a few more meters and I will do it again. I don’t have pvc but I have a copper tube I could use. Of course I couldn’t bevel an angle so maybe that’s not gong to work?

[Tōtōchtin]

Your copper pipe is much thinner so you won't have such a large edge. Plus the PVC created such a small crease it's not really worth talking about. Heat up your tube where you be bending it will help,as would filling it with salt or sand first.
T

[Alzahra888]

Not sure this is a good thing because the inner coil came out much lower and so there is a gap inside and an unusual extension outside.

[Tōtōchtin]

Just start to open the gaps a bit by working it down towards the bottom. It will work better with a small gap between coils.
Tōtō
Edit: Also open up the inner coil by working it up. What are you planning on knocking down with that?

[Alzahra888]

I will try to do just that then. Worried though about this red circle in the photo kinking on me.

The Liebig — I’ve tried to make a ribbon out of my most adequate cable. Not sure if this is acceptable or if it will cause problems. Also don’t know if I could insert with a proper spiral going on. When I did, it just kind of wandered down the 3/8 in its own fashion.

TōTō these are for a modular pot/ccvm.

Edit: you wanted to know what kind of power. I don’t know yet. Leaving options open. Will probably start with a paella burner outdoors on a 50l keg.

[Tōtōchtin]

You can round off that tube with a crescent wrench.
Tōtō
If you're going for turbulence I cut a pipe 1.5" long and then cut it into 3 pieces lengthwise. I soldered these to the inner pipe. As I slide the outer pipe over I would bend up the tabs to adjust the clearance. I did this the length of the pipe.
Tōtō

[MooseMan]

The Liebig — I’ve tried to make a ribbon out of my most adequate cable. Not sure if this is acceptable or if it will cause problems. Also don’t know if I could insert with a proper spiral going on. When I did, it just kind of wandered down the 3/8 in its own fashion.

Rather than messing around with spirals and bits of cable/pipe in the jacket, I'd suggest you just make the Liebig as long as you can, and use a pipe combination that makes the water jacket as narrow as possible.

Both of those things will make for a good efficient Liebig.

[Alzahra888]

That’s encouraging. At the moment I have option for as long as a 1.5m 3/4” water jacket with a 1.7m 3/8” condensor. I can build a support if this weight would tip the keg. As a newbie I don’t really know in practice how awful it might be to err on the side of too much weight but it sounds safe to my green ears to err on the side of a long pc.

[MooseMan]

That’s encouraging. At the moment I have option for as long as a 1.5m 3/4” water jacket with a 1.7m 3/8” condensor. I can build a support if this weight would tip the keg. As a newbie I don’t really know in practice how awful it might be to err on the side of too much weight but it sounds safe to my green ears to err on the side of a long pc.

Go for it, that length will be very efficient. Mine is 1.4m 22mm/28mm.

You will have to support it at the end, but any old stand or whatever you can come up with will do fine. I use an old camera tripod.

If you place those tubes you have inside one another, what is the gap between the walls? I'm not great at old imperial measurements any more.

[Alzahra888]

Can’t answer about the gap. Dont have the specs on the tubing as my local hardware approximated the 3/4” & 3/8” recipe copy/paste from this site. It was close though and a copper wire, I don’t know what gauge, spiraling around the PC can fit snugly into the water jacket.

[higgins]

Mine is 3/4" over 1/2" and a 12 AWG wire was a snug fit in the gap.

[Alzahra888]

Well I found the scrap paper with my scribbles. I dont have ID/OD for precision but the two tubes are 18mm and 12mm, .71” and .47”, a combination which appears to have less space between the tubes than what I was trying to copy. Could this overly constrain water flow?

[shadylane]

The Liebig — I’ve tried to make a ribbon out of my most adequate cable. Not sure if this is acceptable or if it will cause problems. Also don’t know if I could insert with a proper spiral going on. When I did, it just kind of wandered down the 3/8 in its own fashion.

Rather than messing around with spirals and bits of cable/pipe in the jacket, I'd suggest you just make the Liebig as long as you can, and use a pipe combination that makes the water jacket as narrow as possible.

Both of those things will make for a good efficient Liebig.

That's what I was thinking also Moose.
A close fitting water-jacket with less weight and cost.
The heat transfer between hot copper and water is good enough that tricks on the cooling side isn't needed.

But the post has begun to drift, it started out with pics of a copper and SS dimroth.
Now it's liebig product condenser modifications.
Didn't mean to hijack. Just following the drift.

I think wind a coil and figure out how to use fittings for the fast changes in direction to avoid kinks.

[Alzahra888]

I scrapped the inner ribbon but kept the single thread of copper wire between the tubes to stabilize the one inside. My bad on mixing different condensers in one post.

[MooseMan]

Well I found the scrap paper with my scribbles. I dont have ID/OD for precision but the two tubes are 18mm and 12mm, .71” and .47”, a combination which appears to have less space between the tubes than what I was trying to copy. Could this overly constrain water flow?

18/22mm is 6mm the same ratio as mine just smaller, so I think it will work well.
You actually want the water in the jacket "Constrained" if that's the right word, as the faster water exchange you get with a thin jacket of water, the better the cooling ability the jacket will have.
So thin jacket will hold less water, (Bonus of less weight) and will need less input flow in order to pass fresh, cold water over the inner tube to cool it. Hope that makes sense.

And I think I was responsible for the drift Shady/Alz, sorry!

[Tōtōchtin]

I was asked how I round out copper tubing with a crescent wrench. I spray the tube with a lube,set it in the crescent tighten the wrench to just a little back from the peak of the bulge and rotate the wrench around the tube. Start with a little friction then tighten a bit more until you have a round tube.
Tōtō

[MooseMan]

I was asked how I round out copper tubing with a crescent wrench. I spray the tube with a lube,set it in the crescent tighten the wrench to just a little back from the peak of the bulge and rotate the wrench around the tube. Start with a little friction then tighten a bit more until you have a round tube.
Tōtō

Sorry to be dumb, but what's a crescent wrench?
Is it what we call in the UK an adjustable spanner?

[Alzahra888]

I think it is mooseman, as you said it. [edit: it’s not, deferring to OtisT below)

Here is another condenser conundrum, can this knock down my gas fired or eventually electric power: condenser is a 4cm (1.57”) wide tube x 85cm (33.5”) long (photo) with a 1.9cm (3/8”) SS gas line entering, running up the length of the tube (85cm), u-turning, to run down and exit from the same entrance without any other twisty business. (gas fired 50liter keg pot still stripping runs* as well as CCVM pc)

By the way, this 4cm (1.57”) tube is the end, no reducer or anything and it connects above by a reducer with a 2” 90° shoulder, to a 2” (5.08cm) 3-way T to a 2” column which will be somewhere around 50” (127cm) tall to allow a modular option for a CCVM on other days.

(Feel like a scholastic monk talking about stuff he know nothin’ about but been good at the books).

*I think if my reading comprehension is alright that that would be a good option over the Liebig. On a different subject altogether, as for my modular alternate, I’m having a hard time in continental Europe sourcing valves to solder onto my 1/4” reflux water line.

[OtisT]

I was asked how I round out copper tubing with a crescent wrench. I spray the tube with a lube,set it in the crescent tighten the wrench to just a little back from the peak of the bulge and rotate the wrench around the tube. Start with a little friction then tighten a bit more until you have a round tube.
Tōtō

Sorry to be dumb, but what's a crescent wrench?
Is it what we call in the UK an adjustable spanner?

Not an adjustable spanner. Here is a crescent wrench.

[NormandieStill]

I was asked how I round out copper tubing with a crescent wrench. I spray the tube with a lube,set it in the crescent tighten the wrench to just a little back from the peak of the bulge and rotate the wrench around the tube. Start with a little friction then tighten a bit more until you have a round tube.
Tōtō

Sorry to be dumb, but what's a crescent wrench?
Is it what we call in the UK an adjustable spanner?

Not an adjustable spanner. Here is a crescent wrench.

That's an adjustable spanner! (Or "AJ")

[MooseMan]

I was asked how I round out copper tubing with a crescent wrench. I spray the tube with a lube,set it in the crescent tighten the wrench to just a little back from the peak of the bulge and rotate the wrench around the tube. Start with a little friction then tighten a bit more until you have a round tube.
Tōtō

Sorry to be dumb, but what's a crescent wrench?
Is it what we call in the UK an adjustable spanner?

Not an adjustable spanner. Here is a crescent wrench.

Yeah that is what we call those in the UK Otis.

I made the connection because I remember my uncle actually had a rusty, heavy old adjustable, that had the word crescent on it, but I thought it was German, cos he was stationed in Germany in the army and married a German lady!
The logic of a child eh!

I've derailed a thread again!
Sorry!

[MooseMan]

I think it is mooseman, as you said it. [edit: it’s not, deferring to OtisT below)

Here is another condenser conundrum, can this knock down my gas fired or eventually electric power: condenser is a 4cm (1.57”) wide tube x 85cm (33.5”) long (photo) with a 1.9cm (3/8”) SS gas line entering, running up the length of the tube (85cm), u-turning, to run down and exit from the same entrance without any other twisty business. (gas fired 50liter keg pot still stripping runs* as well as CCVM pc)

By the way, this 4cm (1.57”) tube is the end, no reducer or anything and it connects above by a reducer with a 2” 90° shoulder, to a 2” (5.08cm) 3-way T to a 2” column which will be somewhere around 50” (127cm) tall to allow a modular option for a CCVM on other days.

(Feel like a scholastic monk talking about stuff he know nothin’ about but been good at the books).

*I think if my reading comprehension is alright that that would be a good option over the Liebig. On a different subject altogether, as for my modular alternate, I’m having a hard time in continental Europe sourcing valves to solder onto my 1/4” reflux water line.

I can't say for sure how well it will knock down as I've not used CSST but I made a Dimroth PC using the same principle but with a wound copper coil, and that is nowhere near as effective as my Liebig.
For spirit runs I'm sure it will be fine, but for stripping, I'm not so sure.

Show us a photo of what you mean by valves to solder on?
Someone will sort you out.

[Tōtōchtin]

Something like this would work. Thread your valves into these. I used a male and female to keep me or others from being confused.
Having a ¹/4" coil will make it a bit rough to clean if needed.
https://www.coppertubingsales.com/produ ... pper-x-npt
Tōtō

[Salt Must Flow]

Fittings like these go by many different brand names. There are an enormous variety of these fittings, including valves. They quick connect directly to copper as well as plastic tubings because they have the same outer diameter.

Personally I like to solder something to the copper tubing then attach thread in of those quick connect fittings for my water lines to connect to. Even little brass needle valves are compatible to the plastic tubing and work well with the quick connect fittings.

[shadylane]

I can't say for sure how well it will knock down as I've not used CSST but I made a Dimroth PC using the same principle but with a wound copper coil, and that is nowhere near as effective as my Liebig.
For spirit runs I'm sure it will be fine, but for stripping, I'm not so sure.

Dimroth, has the best knock down power per size, that's great for a reflux condenser.
It can condense the most vapor to liquid without over cooling it.

But used for a product conderser, the alcohol outlet temp will be higher than a longer liebig.
A liebig will condense the hot vapor and also cool it down.