Yummy’s Steam generator

[Yummyrum]

Finally gathering bits an pieces .
Originally then we lived down in NSW and I distilled outdoors , I was going to make a gas fired Steam genny but as I am now in Sunny Queensland and about to have a Solar electric upgrade , I figured might as well be using some of that power . And I am distilling inside ( too many nosey neighbours .)

Anyway , I only have a 40amp line to the shed and have a 32amp circuit to the stilling area . So allowing a bit of derating and a bit left for pumps and stuff , I bought a 6kw element . I think that will do me for what I want .
Would have loved more , but it is what it is .

I have had a short length of 3” for nearly 10 years so figured it was time to use it .

I also was going to go mechanical float valve in my original gas power idea to maintain level in boiler but have decided to follow the pack and go electric float valve and solenoid operated fill valve .

I ordered a 2” sightglass but somehow ended up with 1.5” . I couldn’t be stuffed sending it back so I’ll deal with it although it’s going to be a bit of a tight squeeze in there for the float switch .

I got a dual float switch . Top float will operate level solenoid while bottom one is to stop power to element before the chamber fills and iff’n the level drops because of a solenoid or water supply failure . Maybe might also use the bottom float with a second Solenoid valve for quick fill before switching to top solenoid for trickle fill .

Well thats the plan .

So I’m playing with my float switches and they are not smooth . Like as I slide them up and down , they feel like they are not gliding . Then I notice that they can catch on the groove where the C-clip is .

Cheap and from Ali-express they are .
(I’m now thinking I should have spent a few dollars and git better quality .)

So I pull off the C-clips and give the ends of the floats a deburr with a pair of pliers ( cause that was the first thing I laid my hands on)

That seems to have fixed them and they now slide smooth and don’t catch on the groove .

I did note that there is a small divot in the top of both floats . I guess there must be an up and down side to them. ….. maybe something to do with the magnet in them that operates the reed switch.

So I have question .
What is a reasonable headspace in a steam generator like this ? I mean hieght of water above element and some head space ?

I realise it will be a boiling fury in there , but what has worked ?

[Wildcats]

I'll be following along with much interest Sir.

[Demy]

I can't be much help but I follow your project...I love people who build, give input to the development of the forum.

[Dancing4dan]

Hey Yummy, great project. Look forward to seeing this one.

As long as water level above the element is maintained you can have a more headspace. About three inches of headspace is what I use in my 1/2 or full keg boilers. If boiling water were to start getting pushed up the steam outlet things will go sideways pretty quick.

My boiler does not use any switches or valves to maintain water level. I fill it and turn it on. As long as my steam arm is run on an upward slope to the thumper inlet distillation is done long before the boiler gets low on water. The slope allows any water that condenses from the steam to flow back into the boiler.

What are you going to use for a boiler vessel?

[zed255]

Hey Yummy, great project. Look forward to seeing this one.

As long as water level above the element is maintained you can have a more headspace. About three inches of headspace is what I use in my 1/2 or full keg boilers. If boiling water were to start getting pushed up the steam outlet things will go sideways pretty quick.

My boiler does not use any switches or valves to maintain water level. I fill it and turn it on. As long as my steam arm is run on an upward slope to the thumper inlet distillation is done long before the boiler gets low on water. The slope allows any water that condenses from the steam to flow back into the boiler.

What are you going to use for a boiler vessel?

If I'm not mistaken, Yummy will be using the length of 3" pipe as the boiling vessel. With any steam generator project I've seen they use a small volume of water and high power and as such require careful control of the water level. It is a stand-alone dedicated purpose device.

[Dancing4dan]

Hey Yummy, great project. Look forward to seeing this one.

As long as water level above the element is maintained you can have a more headspace. About three inches of headspace is what I use in my 1/2 or full keg boilers. If boiling water were to start getting pushed up the steam outlet things will go sideways pretty quick.

My boiler does not use any switches or valves to maintain water level. I fill it and turn it on. As long as my steam arm is run on an upward slope to the thumper inlet distillation is done long before the boiler gets low on water. The slope allows any water that condenses from the steam to flow back into the boiler.

What are you going to use for a boiler vessel?

If I'm not mistaken, Yummy will be using the length of 3" pipe as the boiling vessel. With any steam generator project I've seen they use a small volume of water and high power and as such require careful control of the water level. It is a stand-alone dedicated purpose device.

Ahhhh! Missed that. Totally different design. My apologies.

[Swedish Pride]

viewtopic.php?t=64760

Doesn't look like a heap of headroom or extra water covering the element.

Since they used it in a commercial distillery I assume it had to pass some kind of safety inspection

[Yummyrum]

Thanks for posting that Swedish , yes thats the style .
D4D , I don’t recon you’d be too far off the mark with 3” of head space . I have enough Pipe so maybe I should go more as I won’t have much in the way of vertical steam pipe .

[LWTCS]

Finally gathering bits an pieces .
Originally then we lived down in NSW and I distilled outdoors , I was going to make a gas fired Steam genny but as I am now in Sunny Queensland and about to have a Solar electric upgrade , I figured might as well be using some of that power . And I am distilling inside ( too many nosey neighbours .)

Anyway , I only have a 40amp line to the shed and have a 32amp circuit to the stilling area . So allowing a bit of derating and a bit left for pumps and stuff , I bought a 6kw element . I think that will do me for what I want .
Would have loved more , but it is what it is .

I have had a short length of 3” for nearly 10 years so figured it was time to use it .

I also was going to go mechanical float valve in my original gas power idea to maintain level in boiler but have decided to follow the pack and go electric float valve and solenoid operated fill valve .

IMG_9254.jpeg

I ordered a 2” sightglass but somehow ended up with 1.5” . I couldn’t be stuffed sending it back so I’ll deal with it although it’s going to be a bit of a tight squeeze in there for the float switch .

I got a dual float switch . Top float will operate level solenoid while bottom one is to stop power to element before the chamber fills and iff’n the level drops because of a solenoid or water supply failure . Maybe might also use the bottom float with a second Solenoid valve for quick fill before switching to top solenoid for trickle fill .

Well thats the plan .

So I’m playing with my float switches and they are not smooth . Like as I slide them up and down , they feel like they are not gliding . Then I notice that they can catch on the groove where the C-clip is .

IMG_9256.jpeg

Cheap and from Ali-express they are .
(I’m now thinking I should have spent a few dollars and git better quality .)

So I pull off the C-clips and give the ends of the floats a deburr with a pair of pliers ( cause that was the first thing I laid my hands on)

IMG_9247.jpeg

That seems to have fixed them and they now slide smooth and don’t catch on the groove .

I did note that there is a small divot in the top of both floats . I guess there must be an up and down side to them. ….. maybe something to do with the magnet in them that operates the reed switch.

IMG_9255.jpeg

So I have question .
What is a reasonable headspace in a steam generator like this ? I mean hieght of water above element and some head space ?

I realise it will be a boiling fury in there , but what has worked ?

I'll post up some 3D images tomorrow with what I settled on.
Can you post a diagram ( code for napkin doodle) of how you plan to do the genny?
On the side cannister that we do it is pretty critical to make sure the full float assembly extends into the max fill space and that anything above the top float is vented back into the actual boiler.
An incorrect orientation of the float with no vent above creates an air bubble at the top of the side chamber and will not allow the floats to float in the requisite position that allows for a timely refill of replacement water.
Hope that makes sense?
I'll post images in my morning.

[shadylane]

If I'm not mistaken, Yummy will be using the length of 3" pipe as the boiling vessel. With any steam generator project I've seen they use a small volume of water and high power and as such require careful control of the water level. It is a stand-alone dedicated purpose device.

I'm thinking
With 3" ID, Ya need to be careful about the max power.
That and/or figure out how to make sure there's always enough water to keep the element covered more than enough to make sure boiling doesn't limit the elements ability to dissipate heat.

[Yummyrum]

Can you post a diagram ( code for napkin doodle) of how you plan to do the genny?
On the side cannister that we do it is pretty critical to make sure the full float assembly extends into the max fill space and that anything above the top float is vented back into the actual boiler.
An incorrect orientation of the float with no vent above creates an air bubble at the top of the side chamber and will not allow the floats to float in the requisite position that allows for a timely refill of replacement water.
Hope that makes sense?

It will be basically similar to rthe sketch that Swedish linked to Larry.
Yes it will have a top vent back to boiler .

I'm thinking
With 3" ID, Ya need to be careful about the max power.
That and/or figure out how to make sure there's always enough water to keep the element covered more than enough to make sure boiling doesn't limit the elements ability to dissipate heat.

Shady , that is something I am concerned about . I know a lot of Beer Brewers use Herms or RIMS tubes and that is in a 2" and I also guess its not boiling
but it is a concern . I wasjust going roughly by the design Swedish posted . I like the idea of as instant steam as possible . I do have 4" but its earmarked for something else , but if 3" doesn't work , I'll use it .

[Yummyrum]

Now one thing I always wondered , was why is the side canister vented to the side of the boiler like this .

Surely , it would be easier just to add a Tee at the top of the boiler and connect it here …. Like this

Well a few months ago , I was curious and did a few tests at work during lunch breaks .

When the side Canister is connected to the tee at the top, the water in it does not equal the water in the boiler once it begins to boil.

Also , changes in pressure significantly change the level in the side Canister . Note, this would also apply to a sight glass on a standard boiler . Giving the illusion that there is more water in the boiler than there actually is .

You can see the Texta mark is where the water was before it started to boil.

IMG_9257.jpeg (11.97 KiB) Viewed 5046 times

So when I connected side tube to side of boiler , the level was and exact representation of what was in the boiler regardless of how much pressure I let build up in the .
boiler .

I subsequently switched back to the thicker glass canister and it was the same as the thin glass except fir when I put a cork in the boiler and let pressure really build up , the level in canister rose a little bit before cork popped .

So this is why the side canister connects to side of boiler via it’s own tube . I’m still not 100% sure why but it seems to work .


And a big thanks to Ken and Barbie Moonshiners fir the loan of the Copper Boiler

[acfixer69]

Can you post a diagram ( code for napkin doodle) of how you plan to do the genny?
On the side cannister that we do it is pretty critical to make sure the full float assembly extends into the max fill space and that anything above the top float is vented back into the actual boiler.
An incorrect orientation of the float with no vent above creates an air bubble at the top of the side chamber and will not allow the floats to float in the requisite position that allows for a timely refill of replacement water.
Hope that makes sense?

It will be basically similar to rthe sketch that Swedish linked to Larry.
Yes it will have a top vent back to boiler .

I'm thinking
With 3" ID, Ya need to be careful about the max power.
That and/or figure out how to make sure there's always enough water to keep the element covered more than enough to make sure boiling doesn't limit the elements ability to dissipate heat.

Shady , that is something I am concerned about . I know a lot of Beer Brewers use Herms or RIMS tubes and that is in a 2" and I also guess its not boiling
but it is a concern . I wasjust going roughly by the design Swedish posted . I like the idea of as instant steam as possible . I do have 4" but its earmarked for something else , but if 3" doesn't work , I'll use it .

You will have a much smaller volume of water in the 3" and much slower flow rate then the beer system so take it slow it maybe fiddle but with a continuous heat requirement it should be doable.

[Yummyrum]

Thats comforting AC thanks

I’d love to just stick the element in the 3” and see how it goes , (open top so I can see whats happening in there ) but because my element is 6Kw @220v and our supply ranges from 235-248v , I need to get all this lot in a box first so I can turn the power down and not fry the element .

It’s going to be a while yet I think . And I’m still waiting on the Chinaman to send the correct voltage coil for the Contactor .

[tjsc5f]

Excited to see how this goes for you. Any time I run my half barrel keg as a steam generator, while I impatiently wait for the initial heat up, I'm thinking about how to build a small volume, continuous unit like this.

[Yummyrum]

Excited to see how this goes for you. Any time I run my half barrel keg as a steam generator, while I impatiently wait for the initial heat up, I'm thinking about how to build a small volume, continuous unit like this.

Absolutely tjsc5f
The whole idea is quick to steam and producing .
There is no argument that a simple keg boiler makes a great stream boiler , but the wait time is a total drag . If I can save an hour or more of heat up time everytime I switch it on , that will make it all worth while .

Also looking forward to no more dry boils .

[NormandieStill]

Absolutely tjsc5f
The whole idea is quick to steam and producing .
There is no argument that a simple keg boiler makes a great stream boiler , but the wait time is a total drag . If I can save an hour or more of heat up time everytime I switch it on , that will make it all worth while .

Also looking forward to no more dry boils .

Another avid follower here. Another advantage is not having to size match your boiler to your "thumper". I have plans for a large steam fired wooden mash-tun which could potentially also been run as a boiler. But I don't have a keg which could drive it on a single fill.

[LWTCS]

Here is an illustration that shows the float switch not positioned correctly.

[LWTCS]

This is how we solved it.

[LWTCS]

I'm not using those float switches anymore because at the commercial scale they aren't really as reliable as they need to be.

But I think they are just fine at the hobby scale.

Now we are using a capacitive sen$or

[LWTCS]

Here the red line indicates the float is well below the vent and we end up with really good behavior. As long as the replacement water isn't rushing into the cannister so fast that it kills the boil.

We later added a second HX that preheats the replacement water and we end up with completely uninterrupted boiling (and no pressure drop) during refill.

Also notice the head space in the boiler. Having that will prevent an over pressure situation before boiling temps are achieved. More heat = more pressure. But more pressure doesn't always equal more heat.

[LWTCS]

BTW Yummy,
I have a spare one of those modified caps if you want it? As I mentioned I don't use that arrangement anymore.
Thing is that its a 4" cap. That is that it is set up for a 4" tri clamp.

[LWTCS]

Also just a thought and no idea how to do the math.
I do feel it is important to have enough liquid mass that is maintaining a boil in order to not be overwhelmed by the replacement water.
A master needle valve upstream from your selenoid will hopefully allow you to dial in the replacement water feed rate without dry firing or killing your steam production.

Thinking out loud is all. I'm sure you have been working it out.

[LWTCS]

BTW Yummy,
I have a spare one of those modified caps if you want it? As I mentioned I don't use that arrangement anymore.
Thing is that its a 4" cap. That is that it is set up for a 4" tri clamp.

Reason I say that is that I personally don't want the vent coming out of the top of the cap. Just not that much room and also amounts to more disconnecting stuff when the float needs service.

[Yummyrum]

Thankyou Larry for coming back with those diagrams .
I can see how that first one might have been problematic .
Intetestingly , the solution I am going to use is going to be similar to your second diagram but different due to the fact that I am stuck with a 1.5” sightglass module that doesn’t leave much room .
I’ll draw a pic soon , just out on bush walk atm .

Thankyou for the offer of the lid but as I mentioned , I only have 1.5” .

No problem with you spit balling at all , it’s all good info for me and the next person that comes along . Thats what the forum is all about .

Regarding the use of a needle valve , that is on my to do list as I read someone else had boil quenching issues unless they used one . That is also why I figured on using the lower float switch to operate a fast fill solenoid before switching to the reduced flow one .But thats just glitter after I get it going .

I like the idea of pre heating the feed water . More energy saved and cooler waste discharge temp . ….. although I am pretty strapped at the moment and another expense can wait LOL

[Bolverk]

Ive yet to fire my steam generator up because I still need to get the PRV and gauge... anyway its the same same concept as yours but with the manual float.

I'll have a 4500w element in a 2" tube with 2.5" of water over it. I fired up the element in my boiler and eye balled the cavitation created at boiling and it didn't see to be any more than 1/2-3/4" so I felt safe going with at least 2" above the element.... 3" above would probably be a bit safer but I'm not too concerned.

[Yummyrum]

Ive yet to fire my steam generator up because I still need to get the PRV and gauge... anyway its the same same concept as yours but with the manual float.

I'll have a 4500w element in a 2" tube with 2.5" of water over it. I fired up the element in my boiler and eye balled the cavitation created at boiling and it didn't see to be any more than 1/2-3/4" so I felt safe going with at least 2" above the element.... 3" above would probably be a bit safer but I'm not too concerned.

Glad to here that Bolverk .
Sounds like 6Kw in a 3” tube should be no problems then .
I have a length of 2.5” but i think I’ll stick with this despite the 2.5” allowing even faster boilup time .

[Bolverk]

Glad to here that Bolverk .
Sounds like 6Kw in a 3” tube should be no problems then .
I have a length of 2.5” but i think I’ll stick with this despite the 2.5” allowing even faster boilup time .

I'd go with the 3" slightly more stability to dampen against the incoming colder water. Yeah the difference in heatup between 2.5" and 3" will probably only be seconds. .25g heated at 6kw should be boiling in about a min.

[ThomasBrewer]

Since steam baths have become very popular in the last few years, there are a bunch of commercial steam generators with safety controls and whatnot, available for under $300.

[Yummyrum]

Since steam baths have become very popular in the last few years, there are a bunch of commercial steam generators with safety controls and whatnot, available for under $300.

That is a good price TB .
I saw someone on here several years back tried one . I think thats where I remember the discussion about using a needle valve in the water feed .