getting ready for my first spirit run with new still...any advice..

[sadie33]

I have my 4th sweet feed whiskey ferment racked off and been clearing for a couple days. I'm thinking this weekend I will do my spirit run. I have never done one on my new still, nor have I ever done more than a 4 gal charge. I have an 8 gal still, but only planning on running 5 gals (if it goes a bit over I'm okay with that.)

I had been using ice to cool my water, but recently stopped doing that. My condenser starts off really cold on both ends. I usually turn it on when I start getting drips. It takes about 15 min. (from the time I turn on the internal element)for me to get that gradient that you want. I was told if I added a valve to control the water flow I could get better use of the condenser. I plan on doing that before my spirit run.

It usually takes me about 3 hours to do a stripping run on 5 gal. I don't use max power, I usually end up turning it down one "click" once it starts to stream. I find if I run at max, my condenser can't keep up with it (the product comes off so hot it steams). The vapors aren't coming out of the condenser, but steaming out of my collection jar. Usually during the end of the run I have to turn it down another "click" for the same reason.

I'm wondering how long I should expect my spirit run to last? I'm thinking 5-6 hours on 5 gal?

I think I was told to slow it down through the fores and heads to prevent smearing, then I can speed it up through the hearts. With the Vevor I couldn't really do this, it was either a really slow drip or a stream. I'm looking forward to seeing the difference.

Anyway, any more advice that could help would be greatly appreciated. Oh, I'm not sure how many jars I should plan on. I use to have about 24 ready, I collected 200ml in each jar, but didn't use them all.

[Sporacle]

Sadie from my experience between 6 and 8 hours for the run from first drips.

I take fores off pretty steady, that's relative to your riser or column size. It could be drips or a full stream.

Figure out your prospective yeild and divide that number by 24 to give you a jar size.

Take notes on your take of rate throughout the run, relax and don't overthink it

Good luck

[MooseMan]

The very last sentence of Sporacle's reply, was the very first thing that came to mind when I read your post!

Definitely expect 6hrs plus for the run, that doesn't really change regardless of still size, other than the heat up times being longer on bigger stills.

Heat up on max, then "Feel" when the still is going to start producing and slow it right down so that the foreshot is coming off super slow. I find you can really bunch up the nastiest of the fores this way before heads start.

Once you have the real stinky stuff captured, speed it up to "Less than you think you should be" through the heads. That's the only way I can explain it.
Run the heads slow and collect in small jars checking each one until you start to notice it cleaning up. (I then tip all of the early, obvious heads into one vessel to save on number of jars)

When you think it's cleared up and into hearts, then you can up the power incrementally until it's at a rate that you feel is sensible.

First hint of tails, swap to a big jar and run it like a strip down to 10%.

[shadylane]

First hint of tails, swap to a big jar and run it like a strip down to 10%.

I'll somewhat disagree.
For the learning experience.
Keep using small jars until oil or cloudiness appears. Then you know you're into tails.
Don't get into a rush blending the cuts, keep them separate, sample and compare.
The experience will help with future runs.

[quadra]

100% Shady! Especially starting out and learning how to run your rig Sadie , or when trying a new recipe. This is the key to really being able to dial in great product.... take lots of notes! Temps ( column, conenser, and product ). Gravity, volumes and times will really help you to better understand your rig and be able to consistently repeat a run when you find recipes you like.

[sadie33]

Sadie from my experience between 6 and 8 hours for the run from first drips.

I take fores off pretty steady, that's relative to your riser or column size. It could be drips or a full stream.

Figure out your prospective yeild and divide that number by 24 to give you a jar size.

Take notes on your take of rate throughout the run, relax and don't overthink it

Good luck

thanks, what do you mean by relative to the riser or column size? Like if I have a small riser (Mile High traditional pot still neck) it should come off in drips and if I had a tall column, it could be a stream? Like that?

And I have heard people figure out their prospective yield, but I have NO IDEA how to do that. I will have to look that one up

[sadie33]

I do like the beginning of the tails. I try not to add too many into my final product. I sampled my UJSSM from March and I could taste I put maybe a smidge too much of the tails. It's not bad, but now I can taste it. I put a couple oak cubes back in it and hope it will age out. If not, I will blend it with a better batch.

thanks guys for all the tips, I am kinda nervous and really excited. The 6 hour window kinda messes with my work/life day but I'll figure it out. I'm thinking I will have my boiler charged and ready to go the night before so in the morning first thing (probably around 8:00AM on a Sat) I will start heating it up. My "crew" gets up at 9:00 on a Sat so then I have breakfast, meds, bathroom and stuff, but my husband usually helps with that. then I usually start supper at 2:00 and we eat at 3:00. I figure I can do something easy like pizza or something.

I don't think I want to stop it and start it later. We'll see how it goes

[OtisT]

And I have heard people figure out their prospective yield, but I have NO IDEA how to do that. I will have to look that one up

You got a lot of excellent advice above. I can help a bit with how to calculate your yield on a spirit run. There are several ways, and this is one.

To calculate how much you will be collecting from a pot still you need to know three things: The ABV of your boiler charge, the volume of your boiler charge, and the average ABV you will collect at. The last value is one that you will need to measure after a run to know what value to use in the future. This number will vary, depending on the ABV of your boiler charge. To get you started, use a value of 30% for your average collection ABV on a strip run, and use 70% as your average collection ABV on a spirit run using 30% in the boiler. Those will be close enough for you to use until you can measure the number yourself.

Next, use the Distillate to Water Calculator found on RAD’s HD calc page to learn how much you will collect: https://homedistiller.org/wiki/htm/calc ... d14701.htm.

Example: 5 gallons of 30% low wines will produce 7.7 liters of 70% spirits, and will leave 2.8 gallons (10.8 liters) in your boiler when done.

[Sporacle]

Sorry Sadie I should have added a bit more info I meant relative to riser and boiler size
So as Moose pointed out the the run time is pretty much the same regardless of boiler size.

[Salt Must Flow]

Technically the riser size (diameter and/or height) doesn't make any difference. The riser could be 2", 3" or even 4" and it would still take the same amount of time to do a spirit run. As mentioned, it takes just as long regardless of the boiler size as well. Take-off rate is determined by power input. If you operate at too low of power, it will take you longer than necessary to complete your spirit run. If you operate at too high of power, technically you will be operating too fast.

[sadie33]

okay, thanks guys. I looked up the calculator and I don't understand the distillate to water calculator. It says "through a still that collects its distillate at ___________%"

I don't understand that.

[Sporacle]

Put an average of what your still will collect at for your spirit run, so for me high is 80 and it drops away toward the end, ave is a bit under 70 with a 28 to 30 abv low wine charge

[still_stirrin]

Sadie, that’s the “average” of the collected distillate.

If it was a strip, it would be the low wines %ABV. But if it’s for a spirit run, where you’ve collected a series of jars, the value you’d enter (a guess based upon experience) would be a calculated average which could be estimated by multiplying the volume of each jar by the respective %ABV for that jar and divide that by the total volume collected.

Average %ABV = sum (jar volume x %ABV) / sum (jar volumes)

So, for a typical low wines run at 30%ABV, the estimated “average” of the collection would be around 65-70%ABV for a potstill run, and that would include the fores, heads, hearts, and tails, that is - all of the products off the spirit run.
ss

[OtisT]

okay, thanks guys. I looked up the calculator and I don't understand the distillate to water calculator. It says "through a still that collects its distillate at ___________%"

I don't understand that.

Your still will collect product at an average ABV that is relative to your boiler charge ABV. Ie. The higher the ABV in the boiler, the higher the ABV output. During any pot distillation run, the ABV in the boiler will slowly decrease, and so will the ABV of the product you collect.

If you put 9% beer in the boiler and strip most/all of the alcohol, the product collection will have an average ABV of roughly 30%. Every pot still will be close to that 30% number for a 9% charge, but there are differences still to still so you would need to run your still to find what you get. This is really easy with a strip run. Collect into one big jar and measure the results once.

If you put that 30% low wines into the boiler and do a spirit run, the product you collect will have an average ABV around 70%. It’s harder to determine this number for your still because you are most likely collecting in multiple jars. I found the easy way to do this is to collect in many jars, perform your cuts, then put your entire collection into three big jars: Fores/heads, your cut including hearts, and the Tails. Then measure the volume and ABV of those three jars and do some math to get your average collection ABV. Note: This only works if you collect to the end of tails. I rarely collect tails, but I had to do it once to know what value to use in the calculator.

If you don’t want to go through all the measuring to figure this out, just assume 70% on your spirit run and calculate what you expect to collect. After the run, if you collected more volume than expected use a slightly smaller number next time in the calculator. Use a slightly bigger number if you did not collect all that was expected.

Edit - typed in parallel with the last two responses.

[Salt Must Flow]

Like Sporacle said, try not to over think it. The way I learned when I very first started was to follow the general advice that was often repeated at the time. Start taking foreshots at about 3 drops per second. Once into heads maybe a little bit faster. When into hearts run at an interrupted stream. That advice is not at all technical, but usually correlates with the average still size many if not most people here use. As everyone said, keep good notes and you'll appreciate it later. Like time you fired the boiler, maybe boiler temp as vapor began coming up the riser, time until first drops, etc... Later you'll be able to dial in your power input with more experience by knowing how long it took with your previous spirit run. You can bump the power up or down as needed. I've NEVER calculated yield or any of that stuff. I learned it based on previous runs and knew what to expect on the next one. Running a basic pot still is just like boiling water on a stove. More power goes faster, lower power slows it down. It's just that simple.

What I find very helpful is to get one of these 250ml Borosilicate Graduated Cylinders. Once running stable, I begin collecting while timing it using the stop watch on my phone. Now I know how many minutes & seconds it took to collect X ml. I can easily convert that to LPH, etc... Now I know exactly what my take-off rate is at that exact power setting. In the future, if you want to operate at X LPH, you know exactly what power setting to run at. You can easily determine what rate you collect your head and even hearts. Once you start doing this, you'll find that your spirit runs take the same amount of time.

[Deplorable]

Sadie, this table might help you get your head around what many above are saying. This was a 23 liter spirit run of CROW I did in November. It's probably as close as I can get you what you will be doing. You can tell here is how long I let the still heat up, when I got the first drips, and how long I took to collect each jar and its volume and ABV. You can also tell how much I kept, and the final ABV and get an idea of how long a run of your volume might take. Your take off speed will [obviously] impact how long your run takes. Heat it up faster in the beginning and go a little faster through the first jar or two, and you can shave off some time. Personally, I prefer to take a while to heat up, and collect the first 300ml very slow, the next jar a little faster. You can see where I reached a consistent take off rate, and once there I didnt change the power input at all.
The only thing I edited out was what my final selection of jars was.
I looked at the first run I did of CROW, on my 2" riser and the take off rates, and time to complete a run were comparable between my 2" and my 3".

I've kept notes on every run I have done except the first 5 spirit runs made for consumption with the exception of the last two badmo barrels I filled with Single Malt. those I actually "cut on the fly" and was really happy with the end product that went in the barrels. That being said, in hindsight, I wish I would have taken the time to take notes but cutting on the fly fit with the theme of the whiskey. The grain, and one of the badmos were free, so cutting on the fly and letting the spirit be what it wanted to be seemed only fitting. Time will tell how well I did.

All of that just to say, plan on a full day. "Sunday-Run Day"

[subbrew]

Deplorable - you are such an engineer. I had to laugh as those look like my notes. I am a little more sloppy as I don't temp correct as I am more interested in the trend than actual values.

Sadie, I do find such notes useful. I have went back and looked when doing similar runs to no about when to expect heads to run out and about when to expect tails to show up. This has allowed me feel confident in collecting 750 ml jars during the middle that I was sure would be hearts as well as to plan my evening as it give me a good idea of how long the run will be. Usually about 7.5 hr for a 10 gallon charge of 32% low wines, that is from walk into the brewery, to shutting off the lights.

[Deplorable]

Deplorable - you are such an engineer. I had to laugh as those look like my notes. I am a little more sloppy as I don't temp correct as I am more interested in the trend than actual values.

hahaha
Actually, Im not an engineer, but I am a manufacturing process analyst with a background in Lean Manufacturing and prior work history as an auto mechanic and aviation mechanic. You can't fix a problem with a process you do not understand, and you can't understand it without data to study the trends.
Correcting at the time of measurement is just a matter of convenience and something to do while tending the still. Once I pick the jars I'm keeping I can sum up the selected jars and know what the volume and correct ABV is so I know how much water to cut it with once I determine the aging proof and the wood treatment.

Im sure you can tell from those notes when I was comfortably into the hearts and anticipating the onset of tails as well as where I got distracted for a moment.

[Bradster68]

Deplorable - you are such an engineer. I had to laugh as those look like my notes. I am a little more sloppy as I don't temp correct as I am more interested in the trend than actual values.

Sadie, I do find such notes useful. I have went back and looked when doing similar runs to no about when to expect heads to run out and about when to expect tails to show up. This has allowed me feel confident in collecting 750 ml jars during the middle that I was sure would be hearts as well as to plan my evening as it give me a good idea of how long the run will be. Usually about 7.5 hr for a 10 gallon charge of 32% low wines, that is from walk into the brewery, to shutting off the lights.

I usually say Mines whole shift to run. 8rs. For an 8 gallon, giver take

[sadie33]

thanks for that Deplorable! I was curious how others did their notes. Mine looks similar except I add when I start to hear noises; I have no idea why. I think I was so excited when I first started that something was happening, so I wrote it down and I still do it.

[Deplorable]

thanks for that Deplorable! I was curious how others did their notes. Mine looks similar except I add when I start to hear noises; I have no idea why. I think I was so excited when I first started that something was happening, so I wrote it down and I still do it.

It's not wasted information. Knowing what sounds the still is making and the correlation between the noise and the temperature of the contents will tell you when to turn on your cooling water without having to touch the riser.
Now you have a new boiler, and you have to learn new sounds along with everything else as you are finding out during your stripping runs. It behaves differently than that Vevor did. If the information is useful to you as the operator, that is all that matters.

[Deplorable]

Well Sadie, what did you get from your first Spirit run on the new still, and what did you learn?

[sadie33]

Well Sadie, what did you get from your first Spirit run on the new still, and what did you learn?

I did not strip far enough into my tails so after 4 ferments I only had about 4 gal. I had to start another ferment Then I made the rookie mistake of thinking it was still fermenting just because it was still bubbling (inside the bucket, not the airlock). When I searched on here last night for long ferments and read it could just be Co2 escaping I could have kicked myself! this thing was probably done a week ago! I stripped it last night, going well into the tails. I have to strip down to about 5-8% off the spout to get 30% in my collection vessel.

Anyway, I now have a little over 5 gallons of low wines and will start it tonight!! It's been a long time coming that's for sure!

[Deplorable]

The education continues!

[subbrew]

What was the starting gravity? The higher your wash ABV the higher gravity you will pull on your stripping run. That is one reason for the recommended 8 to 8.5% as a target abv for your distillers beer. At an 8.5% beer going a bit below 10% at the spout on a stripping run is what I experience as normal. I miss calculated on a rum and ended up with about an 11.5% wash. I had to go clear to pulling sweet water during the stripping run to get down to 30%, actually gave up and called it good at 34%.

[sadie33]

What was the starting gravity? The higher your wash ABV the higher gravity you will pull on your stripping run. That is one reason for the recommended 8 to 8.5% as a target abv for your distillers beer. At an 8.5% beer going a bit below 10% at the spout on a stripping run is what I experience as normal. I miss calculated on a rum and ended up with about an 11.5% wash. I had to go clear to pulling sweet water during the stripping run to get down to 30%, actually gave up and called it good at 34%.

I followed the recipe in T&T for Sweet Feed whiskey and it usually starts at 1.65 though one of them was 1.70.

I don't know why I didn't go deeper into my tails on my other ferments, I could easily of collected 5 gal. from the 4 ferments if I had. Looking at my notes I can see I was stopping at 10% and not really looking at the total % of the vessel. I think I was focusing on other things (getting use to running a new still etc).

I will not make this mistake stripping my rum. I only have 3 (5 gal) ferments ready to strip so I will make one more and I'm sure I will get enough for a 5 gal run with 4 ferments.

[sadie33]

The education continues!

LOL, yes it does.

[shadylane]

I followed the recipe in T&T for Sweet Feed whiskey and it usually starts at 1.65 though one of them was 1.70.

I don't know why I didn't go deeper into my tails on my other ferments, I could easily of collected 5 gal. from the 4 ferments if I had. Looking at my notes I can see I was stopping at 10% and not really looking at the total % of the vessel.

All is good, sweet feed is a sugar wash.
Since your potstilling, ending the stripping run early got rid of the nastiest part of sugar wash tails.

When stripping Rum made from mostly molasses different rules will apply.

[sadie33]

All is good, sweet feed is a sugar wash.
Since your potstilling, ending the stripping run early got rid of the nastiest part of sugar wash tails.

When stripping Rum made from mostly molasses different rules will apply.
[/quote]

like...

[sadie33]

It took me exactly an hour to get one single drop...it lingered. I turned it down then, but no more drops came after like 10 min so I turned it back up to max. I didn't turn it down again until I had slow, steady drops. I was able to put it all the way down to MIN and still get slow steady drops. It took me not quite 30 min to collect 200 ml of fores that I tossed.

I turned it up to a #2 and I got fast steady drops, so I put it down to #! (MoosesMan said less then you think you should be). And Deplorable posted a pic of his notes so I can use that for guidance.

It's all so exciting!!