Vodka Recipe for Refined Tastes

[Copper]

I finished a nice neutral spirit run (one plate, 36" copper mesh packed column, dephlegmator) and yielded many liters of 95% spirit. After a couple rounds of resting in free-air and ultrasound treatments, I diluted a sample of my favorite cut to 80 proof and poured into sampling glass alongside Ciroc Vodka (one of the only grape-based vodkas on the market). Blind taste tests at room temperature revealed 100% success of discerning homebrew vs. commercial. The homebrew was dry, thin, and pure ethanol taste. The Ciroc was deeper, thicker, smoother, and darker tasting, making it easy to discern. It is NOT just ethanol and water.

I figure Ciroc is using a thickening agent (gum arabic, mono and diglyceride, or glycerin) to improve mouthfeel and smoothness. Maybe a touch of sugar.

What is a good vodka recipe to improve neutral spirits?

[Ridgeback816]

My vodka recipe is
50lbs of white corn
50 lbs of long grain rice
20 lbs of oats
5 gallons of backset
50 gallons of water
Double distilled
Stripped on a 15 gallon pot with a 3 foot column 3 inch diameter with just the head packed with copper mesh collect until your down to 25 percent off the spout total abv 55 percent ( this is key watering back down to 35 percent)
15 gallon pot finished 3 foot 3 inch column 12 inch tall 3 inch sight glass dephlag packed with lava rock (still with copper mesh in the head another 9 inches in hight) distill to 96 abv 1 or 2 points does make a huge difference

Make good cut this was the hard part for me I took 500 ml cuts made each one a full 50 abv so I could taste and learn I usually finish my about 47 abv

Let it sit for a week and blend

Oats are rice will make your spirit THICK! I will warn you my wife's friends are always over the house now so take the good with the bad

[Copper]

Ridgeback, that's a great looking recipe. I'm guessing the end product is excellent.

For my work with "aggressively neutral" spirits, I prepared several 200mL batches by watering down (using reverse osmosis water) the neutral spirits to 40% ABV. The tests were gum arabic, mono- and di-glyceride, and glycerin.

Glycerin - about 4 drops into 200mL
Gun Arabic - a little scoop using a chemist's spatula
mono-di-glycerides - just a few flakes. Very hard to dissolve.

I used a heated stir plate and ultrasonic bath to prepare the samples. All samples failed the taste test. They were too "lively" and too much "burn". I poured the samples together in a "discard beaker".

My next test was to prepare more 200mL batches with a pinch of sugar and with pinch of citric acid. Both samples failed the taste test. I poured the remaining samples into the "discard beaker".

Then I tasted the "discard beaker". HOLY SMOKES! Nobody could taste the difference between the Ciroc and the homemade. I let it sit overnight and the next day, it mellowed way too much. The alcohol "burn" is gone. It went from too lively to dead-on-arrival. Some people might prefer this. My experiment showed that a bit of thickener agent, citric acid, and sugar mellows neutral spirit to match commercial top-shelf vodka.

I'll keep testing and post results. My next steps will be to use mineral water instead of RO or add trace minerals.

[shadylane]

I finished a nice neutral spirit run (one plate, 36" copper mesh packed column, dephlegmator) and yielded many liters of 95% spirit.

What design and diameter of plate?

[greggn]

The homebrew was dry, thin, and pure ethanol taste.

I'll guess that your neutral began life as a sugar wash. That would be a good reason for you to consider it to be "thin." If you're capable, try an all-grain instead. I prefer soft white wheat but, in the past, I've used virtually every grain available in my region.

Depending on your distilling protocol and cuts, AG will provide both mouthfeel and taste without having to rely on additives.

[Tammuz]

Since it is made from grapes you might look up A. Bishops base for brandies made with raisins. Jesse played with it on his channel.

[squigglefunk]

I'm just gunna throw carbon filtering out there, it seems frowned upon here but it's a common practice by many commercial distillers (google tells me Ciroc does) and can really smooth out the mouth feel and clean up the taste.

Google also tells me Ciroc distills 5 times

Cîroc is five times distilled using specially selected French grapes. These grapes are made into a wine which is initially distilled four times in column stills.

It’s the fifth distillation where Cîroc is truly created. This takes place in a traditional, tailor-made copper pot still at the historic Distillerie de Chevanceaux in the South of France.

WHAT MAKES CÎROC DIFFERENT TO OTHER VODKAS?
There are three main differences. Firstly, we start with grapes, not grain. Secondly, we use craft skills handed down from the great distilling regions of Cognac and Armagnac. And finally, we use specially developed stills that slowly drip our liquids through copper to reveal a soft, smooth texture and a slightly citrus note.,

[Saltbush Bill]

Sounds like a whole heap of marketing hype to me.
5 times distilled? does that mean 5 times through a pot?
5 times through a packed reflux column ? or once through a 5 plate column?
Specialy developed stills? What exactly does that mean?

[shadylane]

What is a good vodka recipe to improve neutral spirits?

Comparing vodka to neutral spirits is like comparing apples to oranges.
The recipes and distillation are different.
It sounds like you want something almost neutral but with mouth feel and a hint of vodka character.

Here's what I'm thinking.
Your experiment showed that a bit of thickener agent, citric acid, and sugar mellows neutral spirit.
Is correct, but the character doesn't last. It's kinda like a flavored vodka that needs to be consumed because it isn't going to get better with age.

[Copper]

Comparing vodka to neutral spirits is like comparing apples to oranges.

Yea, I'm not a vodka guy at all. Kindof a newbie when it comes to vodka. But I just ran this whole jug of aggressively neutral spirits and thought, "oh I can make vodka".

the character doesn't last. It's kinda like a flavored vodka that needs to be consumed because it isn't going to get better with age.

I've been experimenting. I felt my version was lacking minerals. I tried diluting the neutral with Sanpellegrino, but it was a mess. Turns out the gypsum (calcium sulfate) is not soluble in 40% ABV and Sanpellegrino contains a lot of gypsum. I found the laboratory analysis of Sanpellegrino and mixed my own (I like my DIY better than store-bought now). So I made a Vodka with the recipe but without the gypsum. It was salty and not vodka. This is where I made a new discovery: vodka should be slightly acidic whereas Sanpellegrino contains sodium bicarbonate. I measured the Ciroc at 5.75 pH. Interestingly enough, Sanpellegrino measured nearly the same pH. The carbonation must be making it acidic.

So my recipe is glycerol, gum arabic, citric acid, magnesium sulfate, and an ultrasonic treatment in a 40C water bath. No sugar. I brought a bottle over to a buddy who is a vodka connoisseur. He was able to pick out Tito's but got stumped between the Ciroc and homemade. He got the Grey Goose correctly once or twice. My homemade matches Ciroc very closely and not too far off from Grey Goose. I'm confident it would be pretty easy to tweak the recipe, though.

How long will it last? What is the shelf life? That's a new question I haven't considered. I'll mix up a bottle and put it on the back shelf. Seems like my ingredient list should be stable in 40% ABV solution. The most likely causation would be phase separation of the gum arabic especially in the presence of magnesium ions. We'll see.

[Thumperbunny]

Throw some wheetbix in your sugar wash eh cuz and that might help.

[elriba]

Hi Copper,
Thanks for posting this. It has been a very interesting and funny account of your findings...

I have curiosity about the ultrasonic treatments. What effect does that have on neutral spirits? Where can I find more about how this is done?

Thanks again.