Loosing too many vapours

[BlueHouse]

Hi.
This is my first post, so pardon me if it's not in the right place.
Although I have been home distilling for 10 years, I don't have the lingo, so bear with this gal.

I have an issue which I wonder now would be called shock cooling, where I am doing a run through my refulx still outside when the ambient temperatures are near freezing and the water I am running through for cooling is also ice cold. It seems that all my alcohol is turning into vapours and disappearing both out the top of the column and at the end of the collection tube and instead of ending up with over 2g of %70-%90 I end up with .5g of %60. Is the problem the drastic difference in temperature? Should I start with less or warmer cooling water? Has this happened to anyone else?

I know this is a newbie question, but I also loose so many vapours out the top of my column on any old run, but know the top needs to be open so that it is not a closed pressure system, but I am often tempted to stick a potato in the top to slow down the vapours. Again, maybe I am running it too cold or too fast?

I am using a reflux still with copper mesh in the liebig on a propane burner often running a double run of mash about 10g to begin.
Thanks for any feed back.

[OtisT]

Hi Bluehouse. You should not be loosing any vapor out of the top of your reflux column, even though it is open. The external and cooling water temp will have nothing to do with your issue (unless the line is frozen, preventing cooling water flow). Your Reflux Condenser should be condensing all vapor and letting none pass, sending it back down the column as a liquid.

A picture of your still would be a big help in diagnosing the root of your issue.

[Salt Must Flow]

I don't see how "shock cooling" could cause you to lose vapor. Can you post a pic of your still so we can see exactly what you are working with?

If you are losing vapor, it would most likely be either through the top (through a reflux condenser), through the product condenser or out of leaking joints.

1. If it's leaking out through the top, that means you're running the water too slow through the reflux condenser. If you run water too slow, the reflux condenser gets too hot, cannot condense the rising vapor and causes vapor to escape through the top.

2. If it's leaking through your product condenser, that means you're running water too slow through the product condenser. If you run water too slow, the product condenser gets too hot, cannot condense the vapor and causes vapor to escape through it.

3. If it's leaking through joints, that means you need to check for leaks. You can set up your still, fill it entirely with water through the very top. Check for leaks. You could just set up your column (minus the boiler), cap the bottom, fill it with water and check for leaks.

[SW_Shiner]

Could also be running at too much power. As has been said, a pic would help a lot, but if both condensers are undersized you may need to turn down the burner till there is no vapour passing. Some other info would also help. Column height and diameter, reflux condenser size and type. You did say liebig, is this the product condenser? how long and what diameter?

[30xs]

I have another possibility. You mentioned an expected 2 gallon and said a 10 gallon mash. If truly mash, all grain ferment, 20% mash seems improbable. I can see a leak losing a percentage of your run, but 75% seems like a lot to not be able to find in freezing weather where it would be trying to condense immediately after leaking. I’m wondering if there was a stalled ferment or bad conversion? Did you measure starting gravity and final gravity?

[BlueHouse]

Thanks for the suggestions. I will send a pic next time I am set up and do some trouble shooting. I have been running with the cold intake fully open and the flame of the burner on high. Vapours are lost mostly at the top of the column but on the cold days out the end of the product tube and even out of the top of the bottle, like it is just way too hot!

[SW_Shiner]

Do you turn down he burner when its running? Or are you running wide open and expecting the condensers to handle it?

[Salt Must Flow]

It sounds like you're pumping way too much power into the boiler.

I imagine it's difficult to judge power input with a gas burner. It's very easy and repeatable to tune power input with electric. I don't really have much to recommend when it comes to using gas other than to turn it down.

[NZChris]

Have you checked that vapor is coming out by holding a mirror over them, or are you guessing?

If it really is coming out, turn the heat down, or increase the cooling water, or both.

Do your calcs. and SG readings so that you know the ABV and volume of the wash.

A spare thermometer above the reflux coil will tell you if vapor is escaping through it. Record it.

What are the temperatures at the cooling water outlets? Record them.

Are the inlet water lines frozen?

[30xs]

What size are the lines feeding your RC? SMF had problems with flow rate running too small of a line once, iirc.

Also if on well water and trying to control flow with a needle valve in the exit side check your valves. I must have had high calcium in the well water when I tried using it. It would literally plug off flow through the needle valve and break free multiple times during a run. You could actually hear it popping as it broke free. As if learning to run a CM wasn’t bad enough.

Only getting 60% off of a reflux still doesn’t seem like there’s any flow. From low wines those are pot still numbers, and even a bit low for that. Have you confirmed you are getting exit water? Some pumps have a low head height and won’t push water column high enough to reach the top of the still head from much distance. I had one rated for 10’ head height and literally at eye level I watched the water stop inside the clear tubing. Pictures would be greatly helpful to help sort this out.