So where am I permitted to ask about legal boiler size?

[RockinRockies]

My post got removed because I suppose asking questions about boiler size when going legal is somehow... an issue. I honestly just don't get it.

Where can I ask a question on this site about legality and then sufficient boiler size to turn a profit? It's obviously bigger than what's permitted here, but I really need help with planning my manufacturing plans. I need to get the right scale first before I submit paperwork and approach my investors.

If this thread isn't the place, then where?!
Mods. Why? Go look at my post you deleted. I was very clear in my question regarding going commercial. No one is going to even attempt a boiler the size I was asking about, to bootleg. It's ludicrous. Not even just price but scale. No one could move that much illicit product. Also, we busted our butts within the realms of this site and our setup to fill small barrels. Just 5 months off and working it like a full time job for research and development. I can't fathom why that's not encouraged.

Anyway. I'm not upset, I'm genuinely confused. I want to get information from pros on boiler and mash tun requirements to go legit and actually make money.

Please help

[subbrew]

You might want to DM Bluefish if he is still on here. I have not seen him in awhile. He was previously a commercial producer.

[jonnys_spirit]

There's a distillery down the road that uses a single 250g boiler and they've been in business for years. I assume they turn a profit.

Cheers,
jonny

[Bolverk]

I think we should be able to have that conversation here, but I ain't a mod, so don't listen to me...

Check out ADI forums, I believe this has been covered there extensively, so youd just need to so a bit of searching.
https://adiforums.com/

I'd add it's not exactly an easy question to answer... it really depends on a lot of factors. Overhead costs, production costs, how much you want to make, employees (if any). How much you can sell at a set price. Does your state allow for self distribution or will you need to wholesale everything (typically like 50% of retail). Lots to it...

[Tater]

My post got removed because I suppose asking questions about boiler size when going legal is somehow... an issue. I honestly just don't get it.

Where can I ask a question on this site about legality and then sufficient boiler size to turn a profit? It's obviously bigger than what's permitted here, but I really need help with planning my manufacturing plans. I need to get the right scale first before I submit paperwork and approach my investors.

If this thread isn't the place, then where?!
Mods. Why? Go look at my post you deleted. I was very clear in my question regarding going commercial. No one is going to even attempt a boiler the size I was asking about, to bootleg. It's ludicrous. Not even just price but scale. No one could move that much illicit product. Also, we busted our butts within the realms of this site and our setup to fill small barrels. Just 5 months off and working it like a full time job for research and development. I can't fathom why that's not encouraged.

Anyway. I'm not upset, I'm genuinely confused. I want to get information from pros on boiler and mash tun requirements to go legit and actually make money.

Please help

Go ahead and discuss it on this forum. Seems ya got caught in a differance of interpretation of hd rules.As they say shit happens. Good luck with your project.

[Bolverk]

Cool ok so now that we have the admins blessing...

Everywhere youll read from pros and consultants says you need to start at least 250 gals. Everything I've read from people that started at 100 gal or less says the wish they started with more.

[Stonecutter]

This
https://www.coloradodistillers.org/
took about 2.5 seconds of internet searching to find. I assume from your rockinrockies handle that you may be in the Mountain West region. Almost every State in the U.S. has a distillers guild or association of some kind. That may be a better resource for professional Distilling instead of barking at the mods on the “HOME Distillers” forum.

[jonnys_spirit]

I'd think and math through how many runs per day/week you need to run to produce/store/retail a certain amount per qtr/year/5yr and whether you'd execute on a double distillation protocol, continuous column, plated column, or whatever. Whether you may purchase NGS, do it all in-house for production, or perhaps a combination of material sourcing/production.

Sounds too much like work to me but that's just me

Cheers,
jonny

[LWTCS]

When working out what size kettle, imo it's best to work backwards. First figure what your operating costs are in order to determine how many bottles need to be LEGALLY sold to cover your overhead.
Then factor in how much profit you are willing to live with. Then account for any growth.

It's more than kettle size alone. Doesn't do any good if it takes hours upon hours to heat up and collect. So also need to factor in how many hours a day you are willing to work at distilling when other things have to also be done. One of which is making time to market and LEGALLY sell.

[shadylane]

I once thought about going commercial but common sense and laziness talked me out of it.
A 1000 gallon pot is going to take a sizable work force and labor can be difficult.
Multiple fermenters will need a forklift to feed and a large building to house them in.
The still house will need 3 phase power, natural gas, water and be located where waste byproducts can be easily disposed of.
All that's the easy part, getting the product name and label approved might require a lawyer.
Dealing with local zoning laws, state and federal regulations will definitely require a lawyer to avoid drama.

If I were going pro on a semi hobby scale, I'd start with between 100 - 300 gal pot and several of the same sized fermenters.
Strip 4 days a week and spirit on the 5th.

[Bolverk]

If I were going pro on a semi hobby scale, I'd start with between 100 - 300 gal pot and several of the same sized fermenters.
Strip 4 days a week and spirit on the 5th.

This is exactly where Bluefin said he went wrong. He spent so much time in front of his still, he didn't have the time to do everything else he needed to do like cleaning, sales, paperwork, etc.

I think it would almost be better to have a dedicated stripping and spirit still so at least in the beginning you can get your spirit in 2 runs (strip/spirit) or a pot with 1-3 plates so can get finished spirit in a single distillation. Either that or have a big bank roll that let's you loose money for the first years so you can hire everyone you need so the distiller can focus on making product while someone else runs the business.

[RockinRockies]

Thanks everyone. I thought 300 to start because the are 20 bbl distended mash tun systems used for cheap and oak stills has fair priced stainless setups

Then i looked further and buddy said screw all that. Let's go 1000gal so wet can fill two full barrels per run. The scale is daunting compared to a 26 gallon boiler. My grinder alone will cost more than my entire setup i have now.

Thanks s bunch and I'm going to head over to that other site. I always check here so maybe comfort brought me here to ask the questions

[Bolverk]

Good luck, man!

Going that big adds a lot of unforseen costs/problems: getting an enormous boiler, utilities to feed it, dealing with the stillage, etc... hope you have at least $1 mil to get started.