50 W heater for small Spiral Still

[excaliber]

Im creating a small, 1 gallon spiral still. Will a 50 W aquarium immersion heater work?

My understanding is that I will need to place a toothpick or something similar in the thermostat to keep it "always on", then use a dimmer to manually adjust temperature. But will a 50 W heater get a gallon of wash up to boiling temperature? Or should I take the heater back and purchase a larger one?

Thanks!

[LeftLaneCruiser]

50 W.. That's about the same power one lightbulb uses.

Maybe if you insulate the whole thing it might get the wash to boil, but it takes forever. I even doubt that it would keep the wash boiling once it is hot...

It would be the same if you try to distill your wash over a candle...


KJH

[Billy Joe Jim Bob]

Nope, won't work. The aquariun heaters are made to top out about 90 degrees. You can use it to heat your mash up to the desired fermenting temperature. I use one in a keg tub 1/2 filled with water, put the carboy in the water and crank it up to 78 degrees=Perfect for sugar wash! I put a dash of either vinegar or clorox in the warm water, or else it starts to get funky....BJJB

[KatoFong]

You can buy a cheap hotplate for about 15 dollars that'll work just fine.

[Yttrium]

I believe the spiral still is a varient on a wok still(aka the overhyped Amazing Still). In the design, the distillation is done at fairly low temperatures over the course of several days.

[KatoFong]

Why is it called a "spiral still"

[excaliber]

Heres the reference I was using as a "spiral still" (among other resources on the net). They recommend a 300 W heater.

http://distillers.tastylime.net/library ... ral_still/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

From what I understand, its basically a heavier duty "amazing still" that uses a condensor.

Can I get a 150 W immersion heater, or is that not any better? Actually, while we are on the subject, how does wattage relate to heat? Or should I just say hell to it all and get myself a hotplate? Would a hotplate change the "spiral still" design any?

Basically, I'm looking to make a cheap, simple still without the complexity of many of the designs I've seen. I realize it wont be nearly as efficient, but thats ok with me. At a later date, I might add a column to it if I have time.

EDIT: I did some hunting around and found an old tea kettle/boiler. I can hack that apart and get the heating element, water proof it, and use that instead.

[LeftLaneCruiser]

Basically, I'm looking to make a cheap, simple still without the complexity of many of the designs I've seen. I realize it wont be nearly as efficient, but thats ok with me. At a later date, I might add a column to it if I have time.

If you want a cheap and simple still wich is even going to make you a decent product; make a pot-still. Out of all the parts needed for the referred 'spiral-still' it is so much easier to just make a pot-still.

You write that you have obtained a teakettle, so this is the way to go:

Make sure the kettle doesn't leak.
Wind a spiral out of the soft copper.
Attach the spiral (condenser) to the kettle in such a way that the connection doesn't leak.
Sit spiral in a bucket with the bottom end trough a hole at side of bucket. Make sure the hole doesn't leak once the condenser is trough.
Fill bucket with cold water.
Heat the wash in the teakettle.
Wait for distilled product coming out of condenser.


Good luck !

KJH

[excaliber]

Thanks for the tips. I thought about that actually, but the teakettle is tiny, not nearly big enough to do an entire gallon at once (looks to hold about 1/4 gallon). I'd have to do multiple runs for a single gallon (would probably take a long time).

Also, will the kettle produce vapor too fast for the condensor to cool? My current copper condensor is made from 10 feet of 3/8" soft copper. I would think that a bucket of ice water would cool it, but I'm not sure.

Would it be ok just to rip the heating element out and place it in a stainless steel bucket (drill holes in the side, place it, waterproof it, etc)? Same idea, but capable of holding more.

Also, I could theoretically put a small column (2 foot) on it before the condensor, correct? If I add a condensor, what kind of still is it? Its not really a pot still anymore with a packed column, but I dont think its quite a reflux/fractionating still.

Thanks for the help!

[LeftLaneCruiser]

I see no problems in your suggestions.

One quart ( 1 ltr.) teakettle is indeed a bit small. The idea of the SS bucket might work if you can seal it good enough.
It seems to me that 10 ft of 3/8" (10 mm.) is fine for a condenser.

With a small column on top of your still it still basicly is a pot-still. With an installation mounted to it to increase the alcoholstrength in one go.
It would be a home version of the kind of stills used by farmers in central Europe.
like this one:
http://www.schnapsbrennen.at/img/selbstbau/anlage38.jpg

KJH

[Virginia Gentleman]

excaliber, no question the tea kettle is small, and won't yield much, but it is a good and quick way to learn the basics. You can put one together in about an hour, and then learn how to mash, distill, recoginize cuts, etc. Small potatoes, but a good way to learn. Each run goes very quickly too, so less time between iterations.

Another easy way to get started is a stainless steel pressure cooker. You can find them in 1.5 gal sizes and larger. A little more expensive, but again you can get up and running quickly. A little drilling, some 1/4" copper tubing, fittings, a bucket, thermometer and you're all set.

Some prefer to jump right in a go for volume. Nothing wrong with that. Others like to start small, get the hang of it, then upgrade. Good luck!

[excaliber]

Thanks all for the help! I've got all the needed supplies and will begin building this weekend. A few questions:

I have extra copper pipe that I'd rather not waste. Instead of a simple straight lyne arm, can I spiral it (ie. 45 degree angle section is straight, then the downard section is spiraled)? Will that effect anything negatively? Basically, I just want to waste my copper piping

Secondly, my current wash is on it's 5th day. Its a simple sugar/yeast wash. The wash itself is bubbling (you can see bubbles rising), but the airlock is starting to draw water back up the pipe (I'm using a homemade airlock. A tube runs from the wash to a bottle of water and the opening is fully submerged, meaning only air can escape). For the last 4 days, the tube has been bubbling happily in the bottle of water, but not today. From my best guess this shouldnt be happening.

Any thoughts? Thanks for all the help, its much appreciated.

[Grayson_Stewart]

I don't see how you can be drawing water back into a tube if the seal is tight and the wash is producing bubles.

[The Chemist]

I wouldn't worry too much about it, unless the water is getting close to dumping back into the wash.

Basically, you've built a low-tech barometer. Since the fermetation has slowed down, you're not getting a lot of CO2 expelled, and the air pressure is forcing some water up the tube. Even with slow fermentation, the build-up should periodically blow out.

[rectifier]

I'd guess you started your wash at a decent temperature, it maintained that for awhile and now it's cooling down, lowering the pressure inside the bottle.

It's happened to me from time to time with wine, but usually just when starting up. Do you have any insulation or temperature control on the carboy?

[excaliber]

Heh, I think it was a combination of all three.

Firstly, I found a small leak in the seal, which is now patched.
Secondly, we had a big storm when I made the wash and sealed it in (low pressure) and now its super sunny/nice (higher pressure).
Thirdly, the wash has cooled off quite a bit.

Should I insulate the wash? Will that help keep it more consistant?

Anyhow, between the three, the water in the tube is starting to recede back to normal, so all is good

[excaliber]

Success!

A friend and I distilled today, and learned many many good lessons. All told, we got about 42 fl oz. (aprox. 1.2 liters).

We ended up using the stove as the heat source. Worked great, except my buck of ice water was steaming in no time flat. We quickly hooked up a siphon from the condensor bucket to the sink, and proceeded to manually dump water in as it emptied out the siphon. Labor intensive, but worked well.

I'm quite happy. This rocks

[rectifier]

Congrats!

I usually just keep carboys of wine in a warm dark place, but when i started doing sugar washes i found they are much more temp sensitive. I have mine in a carboy that is in a bucket of water kept at 27 deg C by an aquarium heater - makes it run a lot faster.

Insulation of some sort is recommended, even so much as a blanket wrapped around it.

[Virginia Gentleman]

Good work, excaliber. Congrats. With the cooling water, you'll find that you actually need to cool it a lot less than you think. If the cooling bucket is bigger than your boiler, you really shouldn't need to add any ice or water. Yes, it will steam (on the top), but as long as your product coming out never gets hot (warm is OK, even prefered) then all is well. You can stir the cooling water every now and then to get cool water from the bottom mixed with hot water on the top. Took me a few runs to learn this. Saves a lot of siphoning, water replacement.

[KatoFong]

VG--

I didn't know that. Very interesting. I've gone nuts adding Ice to my cooler, thinking that I was helping the process.

Why does warm distillate help?

[Virginia Gentleman]

Hey KF, as I understand it having the distillate come out warm gives the other volatiles one more chance to evaporate before the product goes into your collection container. But for me it's more about not having to keep the condensor so cool. It's a bit of a balance, though, because cranking out hot product can definitely produce off flavors.

[excaliber]

Good to know VG, I'll keep that in mind. We did notice that the top of the condensor was steaming a lot but the product was quite cool. We weren't sure what to do, so we kept siphoning just in case. Next time we will know not to work as hard!

I need to seal my boiler next time better. It is a stainless steel bucket with a large "air tight" sealing lid (looks a lot like those old glass jam bottles with a heavy duty clasp). After about 30 minutes of the boiling heat, the plastic seal started to warp and was letting massive amounts of steam out, which I temporarily fixed by wrapping teflon tape around it. Needless to say, I'm going to have to seal it better before doing it again.

Thanks rectifier for the tip. Will insulate next time, and will probably pick up a cheap aquarium heater.

Whee! I have a feeling this is going to become quite an addictive hobby! And honestly, I dont really drink that much either My friends are sure as hell gonna be impressed though.

[rkr]

You can get 95.6% relatively pure stuff with spirall still and single pass, not doable with potstill. If you add column to the system and use power controller you can get extremely pure azeotropic middle cut that covers 90% of potential alcohol.

For the original question, 300W is good power for the 5 meters of copper spiral used in design. To use less power you need shorter spiral which will likely drop %. You can read "simple low cost stills" at the same site for more advanced aircooled stills.

For a potstill: with 300W and 5 meters of cooling spiral you can skip the water bath, it'll work great with ambient cooling only.

Greetz, Riku

Basically, I'm looking to make a cheap, simple still without the complexity of many of the designs I've seen. I realize it wont be nearly as efficient, but thats ok with me. At a later date, I might add a column to it if I have time.

If you want a cheap and simple still wich is even going to make you a decent product; make a pot-still. Out of all the parts needed for the referred 'spiral-still' it is so much easier to just make a pot-still.

You write that you have obtained a teakettle, so this is the way to go:

Make sure the kettle doesn't leak.
Wind a spiral out of the soft copper.
Attach the spiral (condenser) to the kettle in such a way that the connection doesn't leak.
Sit spiral in a bucket with the bottom end trough a hole at side of bucket. Make sure the hole doesn't leak once the condenser is trough.
Fill bucket with cold water.
Heat the wash in the teakettle.
Wait for distilled product coming out of condenser.


Good luck !

KJH