Jimbo's Wheat Flour AG Experiment

[Jimbo]

This crazy ass simple all grain recipe turned out great, and it is without doubt the simplest hooch Ive made, ever.

I picked up a sack of enriched baking flour from SamsClub, $6.99 for 25 lbs. I initially planned to mash this in with 5 lbs of 2 row. But I have some SebBrew HT enzymes a friend gave me. Its heat tolerant alpha amylase enzymes that work up to 190F designed for breweries. Crazy stuff, didnt even know this existed. Without enzymes, I recommend just mashing in at 148 with 5 lbs malt.

Anyway, simple process. I brought 13 gal of water up to 205F and dumped it on the 25lbs of flour. I let it sit wrapped up in a blanket for an hour to gelatinize stirring occasionally with a drill mounted paint stirrer. Then stirred in 12 gr of this enzyme (thats a tiny amount) in th 180's F. it went to work asap and in a few minutes I had a bucket of 1.068 sweet mash. After cooling to 75 I pitched S-05 and it fermented out in 4 days to 1.014. 7.2% wash, smelled incredible, fruity and lemony. Tasted a little thin tho, bland.

I pulled 8 gallons of the clear wash off the top and ran it. Pulled 1.8 gallons of 32% low wines. I then debated dumping the 5 gallons of thick muck remaining or trying a crazy experiment. Here's where it gets fun. I recently electrified my setup with a Camco ultra low watt density element that reports it can fire in sand. Time to see if it can deal with thick muck. I left 3 gallons of the hot backset from the first run, and added 5 gallons of this sludge. I set the 5500W element low to 2000W and monitored closely for scorching. No scorching. Pulled 0.8gallons more low wines at 32% again avg.

All said, 2.6 gallons low wines that taste really nice, very bready. Gonna pick up some more wheat and mash on 12gallons this time and run the whole lot. After I accumulate 10g low wines (4 runs) Ill do a spirit run.

'Great Success' in the words of Borat. I recommend this. Super easy and great results, and its an all grain.

[Halfbaked]

$7 and you got 2.6 gal of low wines. I know its not finished but that's 54 cents a bottle. I am thinking that you are gonna let the smoke out of that element and then I am thinking you gonna scorch the grains. Are you thinking the thinness is due to the flour or SebBrew HT enzymes or both? It would be interesting if you used some of that red wheat with the SebBrew HT enzymes see how that works. GOOD job!

[Jimbo]

I been haviong problems with the last 2 batches of red wheat mashed with Dingemans wheat malt. It mashes fine, as usual to 1.060 or so, but wont ferment. Aerated, pH is fine, added soem gypsum for the yeast in the mash water, bla bla, as I always do but it just wont ferment. 2 batches dumped now. Only thing I can think is this feed grade wheat has some anti fungal on it so it doesnt mold in the cold damp winter. Anyone here know?

Anyway, this wheat flour fired up and fermented fine.

The thinness is just because there's nothing here but flour. Corn mashes taste thin too. I was trying to point out that it smelled great, but didnt pack flavor like it does aroma. Anyway, Its why all sorts of flavor grains, Caramel, special roast, carapils, aromatic malts etc etc are added to beer, so they dont taste thin.

[Halfbaked]

http://www.specialtyenzymes.com/products" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow Pretty interesting stuff. Is this the same stuff here?

[Jimbo]

ya, thats the stuff. They dont sell retail, dont know where you 'd find it retail, but its crazy stuff, works great. 12 grams is less than half a shotglass full, and in 30 minutes I had 13 gallons of sweet wort.

[S-Cackalacky]

I brought 13 gal of water up to 205F and dumped it on the 25lbs of flour. I let it sit wrapped up in a blanket for an hour to gelatinize stirring occasionally with a drill mounted paint stirrer.

Jimbo, this seems like it would be a doughy lumpy mess. Is the trick keeping the water below boiling point? Do you think some other enzyme might work just as well?

What do you expect as an end product - something like a vodka? I've never tried an all grain. This sounds like an easy way to get my feet wet.

S-C

[Jimbo]

S-C, It might of had i not put the enzymes in pretty quick up front since its hight temp enzymes, which liquified the bucket almost instantly. Dunno. Originally I was gonna mash in with malt at 148, so it prolly would have gotten thick. Corn gets thick, wheat too, like thick lumpy oatmeal porridge. its a bitch to work, but when you mash in it liquifies up really quick.

Ive never used enzymes before but I suspect they all work the same, but dont be afraid of mashing in with malt, its not that tricky. When it hits 150 stir in the milled malt and wrap it up. it liquifies quick when stirring in the malt too, its really cool to see that thick oatmeal thin out so fast.

This stuff has lots of flavor, I was surprised. Very bready, definite wheat flavor. I think it will come through in the spirit run too. I have a potstill that smears like a fresh plowed coon on the highway, your results may vary if using a boka or other reflux still. im guessing with teh right still, t his would make a great simple ag vodka too. be great to hear someone try that.

[S-Cackalacky]

Thanks for getting back to me Jimbo. Too bad that enzyme is only available wholesale. I would really like to try your recipe. I'll do some web searches and see if I can come up with anything similar.

Thanks again,
S-C

[FullySilenced]

Jimbo here is a version that I made using malted barley and unenriched, unbleached whole wheat flour...


WHOLE WHEAT FLOUR WASH can be expanded…

I heated my whole wheat flour (unbleached unenriched nothing added or removed whole wheat flour) up on a hot plate slowly with 6 beano tablets added along with the malted barley 1.5 pounds per 10 pounds of flour. got conversion upwards of 1.060... When i tried this and it was a rocket ferment for 28 gallons...

here ya go...


This has all ready been discussed in other forums, but I'll post it here as well. If you have no access to plain grains this is one of the cheapest mashes out there. This can also be distilled on grains with internal heating elements without scorching problems. To boot it off foaming is also minimal, I usually strip this one with 2kW internal element.

To make 25 liters of mash at ~1.060 SG:

4kg wheat flour
1kg malted and crushed barley
A pack of fresh baker's yeast (~25grams I think)

Mix flour + some 200g malt to 8 liters of 50C water. It should settle to about 40C. This first stage is needed to prevent flour from forming clumps.

Add 9 liters of boiling striking water and mix well. The mash should in a few minutes turn to liquid and the temperature settles at about 65C. This is gelatinization and first conversion rest. However, a large amount of starches remain unsoluble and a cooking is needed to break the chemical bonds.

Heat the mash to boiling while stirring continuously and let it boil for some 15 minutes. This is the labor intensive task, before boilign starts the mash thickens again considerably. Once the boiling starts it again turns to liquid after a while. Once it is liquidlike you can stop the boiling.

Cool the boiled mash to 65-67C and add the rest of the malt. Let it sit for one hour or a bit more while keeping it from cooling too much. A blanket or two around the mash tun helps. This is your final conversion rest.

After the hour is passed, fill the mash tun to 25 liters with cold water (if the mash is still in the boiling pot now is the time to transfer it) and let it cool to about 30C. Once it's cooled pitch the yeast and let it ferment.

There are very little solids in the mash apart from malt remains so it can be distilled on grains. If you have grain mill you can crush the malt to flour like composition to make things even better.

Wheat flour can be substituted with other flours, although I have no test results to share. Corn and rye seem to have higher gelatinization temperatures so they may require longer cooking time or somewhat higher temperature for the first conversion rest.

This produces somewhat light bodied Irish or grain neutral style whisk(e)y. By widening the middle cut you can retrieve more aroma if you like.

This recipe has been around since 2009 and is in the public domain.

I take no credit for this one but it had a nice clean whiskyish taste and it also distilled to a nice vodka...

Fully Silenced
Happy Stilling to you all ...

PS you can increase the SG by boosting it with sugar if you so desire... i would not go above 12% to maintain the great taste profile.

[Mr Shine]

This flour should be (or has to be?) unbleached, right?

[Jimbo]

This flour should be (or has to be?) unbleached, right?

Should be, as natural as possible is always best. But doesnt have to be. This is the stuff I bought and it worked out great. Havent done the spirit run yet but the low wines so far taste great, full of flavor, wheaty bready flavors. http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 0#p7135554

[Jimbo]

Jimbo here is a version that I made using malted barley and unenriched, unbleached whole wheat flour...


WHOLE WHEAT FLOUR WASH can be expanded…

I heated my whole wheat flour (unbleached unenriched nothing added or removed whole wheat flour) up on a hot plate slowly with 6 beano tablets added along with the malted barley 1.5 pounds per 10 pounds of flour. got conversion upwards of 1.060... When i tried this and it was a rocket ferment for 28 gallons...

here ya go...


This has all ready been discussed in other forums, but I'll post it here as well. If you have no access to plain grains this is one of the cheapest mashes out there. This can also be distilled on grains with internal heating elements without scorching problems. To boot it off foaming is also minimal, I usually strip this one with 2kW internal element.

To make 25 liters of mash at ~1.060 SG:

4kg wheat flour
1kg malted and crushed barley
A pack of fresh baker's yeast (~25grams I think)

Mix flour + some 200g malt to 8 liters of 50C water. It should settle to about 40C. This first stage is needed to prevent flour from forming clumps.

Add 9 liters of boiling striking water and mix well. The mash should in a few minutes turn to liquid and the temperature settles at about 65C. This is gelatinization and first conversion rest. However, a large amount of starches remain unsoluble and a cooking is needed to break the chemical bonds.

Heat the mash to boiling while stirring continuously and let it boil for some 15 minutes. This is the labor intensive task, before boilign starts the mash thickens again considerably. Once the boiling starts it again turns to liquid after a while. Once it is liquidlike you can stop the boiling.

Cool the boiled mash to 65-67C and add the rest of the malt. Let it sit for one hour or a bit more while keeping it from cooling too much. A blanket or two around the mash tun helps. This is your final conversion rest.

After the hour is passed, fill the mash tun to 25 liters with cold water (if the mash is still in the boiling pot now is the time to transfer it) and let it cool to about 30C. Once it's cooled pitch the yeast and let it ferment.

There are very little solids in the mash apart from malt remains so it can be distilled on grains. If you have grain mill you can crush the malt to flour like composition to make things even better.

Wheat flour can be substituted with other flours, although I have no test results to share. Corn and rye seem to have higher gelatinization temperatures so they may require longer cooking time or somewhat higher temperature for the first conversion rest.

This produces somewhat light bodied Irish or grain neutral style whisk(e)y. By widening the middle cut you can retrieve more aroma if you like.

This recipe has been around since 2009 and is in the public domain.

I take no credit for this one but it had a nice clean whiskyish taste and it also distilled to a nice vodka...

Fully Silenced
Happy Stilling to you all ...

PS you can increase the SG by boosting it with sugar if you so desire... i would not go above 12% to maintain the great taste profile.

Thats pretty complicated. I dumped hot water on the flour and stirred with a large drill mounted paint stirrer until it was all blended well. Done. No stirring and boiling over a fire, no doughing in, no beta g rest. nothin. It gelatinized, converted and fermented out just fine. Im a fan of keeping things as simple as possible.

[kaziel]

Nice work Jimbo. I'm also using heat tolerant enzymes . Many people in Poland are using those with variety types of flours. I'm doing AG raw rye with those. I have unlimited supply of raw rye and I'm cheapskate. Don't know the name of additional enzyme I bought from internet (label says it's only braking down polysaccharides beside starch) It had removed schorching problem for me.

[FullySilenced]

Was actually very easy... to do ... and no issues with getting the enzymes... malted barley and beano tablets...

[Prairiepiss]

Why not wheat malt instead of barley malt? I think with that much wheat flour. I would to for a good white wheat malt. Or a nice red wheat malt for a little spice.

[Jimbo]

Why not wheat malt instead of barley malt? I think with that much wheat flour. I would to for a good white wheat malt. Or a nice red wheat malt for a little spice.

Yes that was my original plan until I came upon these enzymes. I have a sack of Dingemans Belgian wheat. tasty stuff and high DP. 190+ I think. This is a good experiment tho, very curious how much flavor comes through using 100% flour. If its thin I can use it for blending, or distilling a couple more times for vodka-ish (damn I need a reflux). Anyway, the low wines have lots of flavor, more that I thought would. Nice surprise so far.

For anyone wants to try this as I did with enzymes I found some at Midwest for 9.99 a lb. And only need 1 tsp per 5g. Its not the same stuff as I used, but Im sure works as expected, https://www.midwestsupplies.com/amylase ... Mgod0D8AFg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[FullySilenced]

Well I used barley malt because its what i had at the time... wheat malt would keep it all wheat... PP is doing some malting i read.. so if you got it use it ...

The whole wheat flower seems to be a good option.

The last ferment was a rocket,(42 hours start to finish)

Did your wheat flour work off in a timely fashion or was it a rapid ferment.. ?

FS

and I didn't let it settle clear just cold crashed it and racked it off the barley and flour sludge. Went into the boiler cloudy... no burning occurred ...

I think i could have loaded a sugar wash directly on top of the barley and flour and gotten good flavor as well ... will try that next time.

[Jimbo]

FS, ya it fermented off pretty fast, dropped 1.068 to 1.014 in 4 days, 7.2%. Didnt go fully dry, but that might be the enzymes (alpha, not beta) and because I ran it so quick, usually give it a week or 2.

Did you see the part where i ran the sludge for grins? The 5500W ULWD elements at 2000W didnt scorch the thick dregs, about the consistently of thick gravy. Very cool. Next time Ill do a 12g mash with 25lbs flour and dump the whole shootin match in the still, unseperated. Id like to find some whole wheat flour. Sams didnt have that, at least not in the 25lb bags.

[MDH]

I bought 50lbs for less than $23 at Costco once.

[Jimbo]

I bought 50lbs for less than $23 at Costco once.

Man there's something wrong in the world if processed bleached and enriched wheat flour cost $14 per 50 lbs, and un-dicked-with whole wheat ground up cost almost twice that.

[heartcut]

Unfortunately that's economy of scale, such a high percent of the flour produced is (tasteless, bad for you, stripped vitamins sprayed back on) bleached white that it's cheaper than making small amounts of whole grain. The enemy is us.

[Jimbo]

The enemy is us.

true statement.

[FullySilenced]

Jimbo, there is more to it than that... whole wheat does have a shelf life..... it will go rancid in a short time if not stored properly... so stone ground or whole wheat will have increased costs to that effect.

Of course you could buy the dried wheat and a grinder or mill and make it yourself ... then you would know for sure what was in the finished product...

A few years back, 5 miles from my house was a feed mill that would make corn meal or flour while you waited.. but like everything else death and time has made most of those things fade from our grasps...

happy stilling,

FS

[ga flatwoods]

heartcut wrote:

The enemy is us.

Heartcut do you mind if I use that as my signature. It is so true. Unfortunate, but true.
GA Flatwoods

[Windy City]

Hey Jimbo
Try using the Sebmalt super once it cools down to 150 f. The two different products are designed to work with each other.
When I did my bourbon using both it dried out to .992
I brewed 45 gal of Belgian Wit this weekend and have a bunch of flaked wheat left over. I'm going to try a corn, wheat and oats (all flaked) bourbon this weekend using just the enzymes for conversion. God I love this hobby

Windy City

[heartcut]

heartcut wrote:

The enemy is us.

Heartcut do you mind if I use that as my signature. It is so true. Unfortunate, but true.
GA Flatwoods

No problem, sad but true.

[humbledore]

Hey Jimbo
Try using the Sebmalt super once it cools down to 150 f. The two different products are designed to work with each other.
When I did my bourbon using both it dried out to .992
I brewed 45 gal of Belgian Wit this weekend and have a bunch of flaked wheat left over. I'm going to try a corn, wheat and oats (all flaked) bourbon this weekend using just the enzymes for conversion. God I love this hobby

Windy City

If you don't mind my asking, how are you getting your hands on these enzyme products? Sounds interesting.

Edit: nevermind, I see where Jimbo has a link to some enzyme.

[Dan P.]

.. but like everything else death and time has made most of those things fade from our grasps...

happy stilling,

FS

Hoo-wee! You must get invited to a lot of parties!

[FullySilenced]

Yes Sir I Do !

[Jimbo]

One interesting thing about this experiment I forgot to mention. The runs were split in 2, 8 gallons clear, then 5 gallons sludge poured in with 3g of the hot backset from the clear run.

I ran these stripper runs into seperate carboys so I could compare and see if, not only was there evidence of scorching, but would distilling with all that yeast trub create a different flavor. Answer: Nope. The 32% low wines in both carboys taste the same.