First pot still, Hotplate?

[tpchuckles]

Hey everybody! I am working on planning my first pot still, and had a question about the heat source.

background information:
my boiler will be 5-7 gallons (~20L), as I believe this is a good size to suit my needs (I won't be selling it, and I don't drink THAT much, haha! this size should be able to run 5 gallons washes (a common size it seems, or at least easy for me to make given the homebrewing supplies I already have), as well as smaller washes (2 gallon minimum probably)). according to the pot still calculator, 1500W seems adequate for this?
I live in a semi-urban area (and in an apartment). lacking an outdoor space to run my still, and not wishing to run the risk of burning down the building, I would like to use an electric heat source.

so, of electric heat sources, it seems i have available electric hot plates or electric stoves, or submerged heating elements:
submerged heater:
I have read (and it makes sense, given my engineering background) that if the liquid level drops below the top of a submerged heater, it can be problematic. given my desire for variable sized washes (a 2 gallon relatively weak wash at 5% starting ABV will yield about a 750mL of 50% ABV product, once diluted from whatever results from several runs and ignoring any waste (alcohol lost to heads, tails, etc)), I don't think I should go with a submerged heating element. (I consider this to be a perfect amount of product considering I don't want to be wasting a ton of materials to bad batches and whatnot, and considering my drinking habits. I'd rather make really great spirits in small amount, even if it takes a lot of time, rather than a ton of crud in the same amount of effort. heck, i even figure once i get it all figured out, i'll make everything such that i can simply upgrade the boiler when i want to move up and keep the rest as is.)
so, given that I don't want a submerged element (unless anybody wants to convince me otherwise), hotplate or electric stove it is. in my apartment, the stove is gas, and i'd really like to be doing this on my enclosed porch anyway, rather than in the kitchen, so portable hotplate/electric burner it is. on the topic of hot plates / electric burners, i have read several people saying not to use them because the cycling of the controller causes undesirable results, but then I have also read several other people using them. do some hot plates not have the cycling controllers (what I assume to be bang bang controllers?), and some do, or do some people just put up with it? also, anybody else using external electric heat, is 1500W enough for this 5 gallon size, and will it be enough for if i eventually decide to upgrade to, say, 10 or 15 gallons, or will I have to upgrade my heat source then as well?
I found a 1500W hotplate (portable electric burner for use for cooking) on amazon for 25 USD.
http://www.amazon.com/Chefman-RJ21-Elec ... +hot+plate" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
anybody used those?

[blueduck]

I run a 5 to 6 gal wash in my 8 gal pot still using a 800 watt hot plate outside of a 2 hr heat up time it works fine,
so 1500 should be more then adequate.
I myself will be going to a 1500 watt hot plate as soon as I can save up some cash for the I want.

[tpchuckles]

any issues with cycling on and off of the hot plate? what hot plate do you have, and which one are you saving up for?

[sltm1]

Hot plate. I'm not the pro from dover ,but I have experience. I bought a 1500w BroilKing hot plate off Amazon last summer (switched from propane). I use a 7gal milk can filled to five. Because the bottom of the milk can is concave, I made a contoured heatsink out of 2 pieces of 1/2" steel welded together to make better heat conduction. This worked fine for about 4 months. Because of the heat radiated down onto the hot plate it melted some of the insulation on the circuitry and it had a small melt down. The fix was this (and you can do it with out the extra expense of a second hot plate), I bought another hot plate and took the wires to the burner and connected them to the burned out hot plate coil. This made a "slave" unit out of the original. It and the original metal housing unit rests on a wooden base a couple of inches above the new hot plate and there is no thermal radiation problem at all. Easy fix once you've had to go through the problem. 1st pic is the heat sink, 2nd is the slave hot plate contrivance. BTW, I leave my hot plate on high for the entire run, no cycling and a constant slow twisted stream or fast drip.

[Bob Loblaw]

A submerged element shouldn't be an issue in most boilers unless you place it way too high in the boiler. At most, you are going to run off about 20-25% of the charge in the boiler (think about a 10% wash run off at an average of 50% ABV).

I have a 7.75g keg boiler with the element placed at the top of the curved section of the keg. Probably takes 3 gallons of wash to cover it - but I have never worried about it heating dry.

Your options with a water heater element based setup are much better than with a hotplate in terms of temp control, and you can future proof yourself by buying 220v ready equipment that can later be moved to a bigger boiler.

edit: btw, I doubt that hotplate you have linked will work well w/o mods due to cycling issues you've already highlighted.

[Brutal]

You would need to make sure your boiler makes good solid contact with the surface of the hotplate. 1500 watts will work for the size you have now but you aren't going to like it on anything larger. If you have good surface contact and really don't want an internal element you could rewire the hotplate to be controlled through a router speed controller, or maybe a triac (sp). Search for a thread by prairiepiss where he shows how to mod a harbor freight router speed controller. Happy stillin' buddy.

[blueduck]

the hot plate that I am running now is the oster single burner 4th 1 down http://www.walmart.com/search/search-ng ... nstraint=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
this 1 is 900 watt, the one I have is 800 watt I have not hade any problems with cycling I think it's do to the 2 gallons of headspace.I have not picked out the 1500 watt one yet but some of them go for $150 there are hot plates at 1500 watt for 30/ 40 bucks if youer going for cheep

[blueduck]

say TPC I don't mean to hijack you post I just have to ask
SLTM1 I was looking at that same milk jug for a thumper that you have does it work well, any problems with getting the lid to seal?

[HDNB]

i am on a 1500w plate from brewhaus $135 also use 15.5 gal boiler from the same place, with a custom 54" head... the plate will take 3h20m to heat about 36L of wash, and runs steady (on high) the whole time...only ever seen the light go off (cycle) once. so it is/has been a good unit for starting on. insulate the boiler it helps a lot.
the upgrade parts to a 220v submersible are trickling in, i'm looking forward to reducing the warm up times...

[sltm1]

Blueduck, none what so ever. It seems to be a jam fit, but I run a few wraps of Teflon tape around it to make sure and there's no leakage. You can actually lift the can with fluid in it by the handle and the lid stay's set firm.

[tpchuckles]

Thanks for all the tips guys, and no worries about hijacking blueduck, i was wondering the same thing myself! i'm actually still in the market for a boiler.

[blueduck]

any time tpc and thx SLTM1

[Prairiepiss]

I would go with a good internal element and controller setup. Instead of wasting your money on a hotplate. That doesn't have a controller. And is very inefficient.

[Sungy]

I would go with a good internal element and controller setup. Instead of wasting your money on a hotplate. That doesn't have a controller. And is very inefficient.

+1

[HDNB]

I would go with a good internal element and controller setup. Instead of wasting your money on a hotplate. That doesn't have a controller. And is very inefficient.

+1

+1, not to mention that it is cheaper too. i just bought two of everything i need to do jimbo's electric conversion for about a hundred bucks.

[Full_moon]

I have exactly what your talking about. a broilking 1500W hotplate. I use it on a 5 gallon clawhammer pot still.. the still has a flat bottom and perfect surface contact to the hotplate.
I also use a controller to eliminate the on/off cycles of the broilking, although it will work.
Here is the time from turning on the hot plate to producing with a ujsm ferment of slightly less than 5 gal syphoned off the fermenter. It varies between 1 hour and 5 min to 1 hour 15 min. depending on the temp of the starting wash.
as a comparison
My 8 gal pot with 4500W heater element the same wash time to produce is 20 to 21 minutes with the same fill.

[sltm1]

PP The nice thing about the hot plate is that I can go back to using propane if I want to with no problem and propane is what I started with before coming to this site.

[Full_moon]

tpchuckles

I just looked at the $25.00 hot plate you mentioned. It just has low, med. and high. It would be usable with a controller. Leave it on high, then regulate the temperature with the controller.
However I would be very leary about its longevity and feel a higher quality hot plate would be money well spent.

The internal element advice is good.

[HDNB]

PP The nice thing about the hot plate is that I can go back to using propane if I want to with no problem and propane is what I started with before coming to this site.

no reason you could not use propane and have a heating element inside that i can see. or just unscrew it and use a screw in bung and some teflon tape.

[blueduck]

really the biggest factor in choosing a hot plate over a internal element, is that not every 1 has access to a tigwelder to attach the threaded bolt for the element to the pot.

[JDBarrett]

I was wondering the same thing. I have a 13 gallon pot, probably will put 10 gallons in. Would a 1000W hotplate do the trick?

[greggn]

I have a 13 gallon pot, probably will put 10 gallons in. Would a 1000W hotplate do the trick?

That combo will probably take about 3 - 4 hours just to heat up. I'm retired and even I don't have that amount of patience.

[JDBarrett]

I have a 13 gallon pot, probably will put 10 gallons in. Would a 1000W hotplate do the trick?

That combo will probably take about 3 - 4 hours just to heat up. I'm retired and even I don't have that amount of patience.

Oh okay, thanks. How much propane, then? haha

[Salt Must Flow]

A 240V internal element and a controller is ideal for me. If I absolutely couldn't use 240V then I'd use two 120V elements, each on their own separate circuit.

[NZChris]

I went to the trouble of modifying the bottom of the boiler so that the element is inserted at 45 degrees then bent horizontal so that it only takes 1.5l to cover it.

Searching the net finds kettle elements that are designed to be fitted through the base, which would be much easier to do than what I did thirty years ago.

[MooseMan]

really the biggest factor in choosing a hot plate over a internal element, is that not every 1 has access to a tigwelder to attach the threaded bolt for the element to the pot.

Many people on this forum have soldered the element fitting to their boiler.
My first boiler, I had the fittings welded in. The build that I'm working on right now, I plan to silver solder the element fitting to the boiler myself.

[NZChris]

Google finds a variety of elements that are bottom entry and are fitted through a couple of 16mm holes, no welding or soldering required.

[NZChris]

My searches today also found copper jacketed elements from 500W to 3000W, I've been using copper jacketed elements for decades. It might help to explain why the yields I've seen posted by members with SS stills and elements are lower than mine. If I ever build a new still, I'll have a lot more choice of elements than I had when I built my first.

Much of the element advice you read here will be from posters with kegs who are limited by only have a few inches of access to install an internal element through, but I don't think you have that problem. If using a large diameter still head you can install elements up to the diameter of the boiler, which is great for low Watt density.

I use two elements, controlling one or using both in series or parallel. That gives me the luxuries of fast heat up and low Watt density, plus I can still finish a run without any drama if one element blows.

[NZChris]

I just realized that the OP hasn't been back to this thread for over seven years.

[MooseMan]

I just realized that the OP hasn't been back to this thread for over seven years.

Hahaha ooops!

Blueduck caught us all out there.