Yummys Boiler …. Lead Free Soft Soldered

[Yummyrum]

I’ve used standard Kegs on gas using just the Sankey 2” for over a decade now . But with the price of Gas going up and having Solar Panels on our new house , nosey neighbour's forcing me to run Gas in the shed I decided to go electric .

I decided I would upgrade to a 4” hole in the top .
Now the keg I have is a strange one but was popular here in Aussie years ago . It has a 3/4”
BSP thread in the top and some weird 2” bung hole in a gusseted area in the side .

I asked a Machine shop for a estimate and decided to have a go myself . Cutting out the 4” hole was worrying me .
I bought a metal drill bit from Bunnings but the recommended cutting speed was about 50rpm .I’ve read that Stainless can be worked but if the metal or the drill gets hot , you are stuffed .
Apparently the SS quickly work hardens which makes the drill unable to cut , it just gets hotter and ends in a stalemate .

So I figured if I ran water on the drill bit it would stop this happening . It worked a treat .
To centre the drill , I screwed a 3/4” brass plug into the top that had a hole drilled in it for the pilot drill .

The hardest part was keeping the drill running slow enough . After about 5 min , my Makita hand drill started smelling . So I put it aside and dragged out my old one . That also started to waft smoke . So I did what I should have done from the start and got out my electric drill
. Although it doesn’t run as slow , I dis short bursts and it got the job done .

I thought about getting it TIG welded and even though I have a welder that does Lift TIG , I decided that now was not the time to learn how to weld and I’d have a go at soft soldering the ferrule on .

To add strength I made a loop of copper and brazed the ends together .I tinned the area around the hole and soldered it . The wire worked well and made a nice fillet of solder . Molten solder likes to cling to surfaces via capillary action . If the wire was not there , the solder would run away . I also wanted more than just a butt joint .

[Yummyrum]

A quick cleanup with a small die grinder in a dremmel tool and some sand paper .

I drilled the hole for the Element a similar way . I made a ring of blue tack around the hole to form a moat and used the hose to keep it full of water while drilling the hole.

I had no trouble drilling this 2” hole with the hand drill .

.

I had to shape the 2” Ferule to match the curve if the Keg and soldered it on …. again using a ring of copper to form a fillet .

To cover the 2” bung hole in the side , I just soldered a copper disc over it .

[Yummyrum]

Alas there was a pin hole in the element joint so I had to pull it apart and redo it .seems I didn’t tin the area around the hole with as much care as the 4” . I also didn’t like the position of the copper ring , so it was a good time to fix it .

Added a 1” drain to the bottom using same method . So far it is all holding together really well but this time I used a step drill .

[tommysb]

That's beautiful mate.

I've managed to drill a 4" hole in stainless keg using an inexpensive Chinese TCT hole saw, low speed and cutting fluid rather than water. Following water will work really well as we're just trying to stop the cut heating up too much. That happens and the SS hardens I believe and your job gets much harder...

Love the idea of the copper wire in-fill.

[Yummyrum]

Thanks tommy .
I’d have loved to have it welded , but there is so much strength in Solder . More than enough to hold a still together . However , I didn’t trust the idea of just butt joining . The copper ring worked better than expected .
Maybe not as pretty as a stack of dimes .
But even though I spent money on a couple of drill bits , I’ve kept a stack of dimes in my pocket

[MooseMan]

What a fabulous job Yummy!

I used similar tactics with my keg hole drilling, but I used a spray bottle to keep the bit and the keg walls wet. One of those "I wish I had 3 hands" days!
I didn't have hole saws of the correct size for any of the holes, so I had to stitch drill and grind/file to size.

But man I wish I'd thought of that little trick of yours, to make a "Moat" around the drill site with blu tack, you genius!

As you might remember, I did try to braze my fittings on, and I was going to use a short copper sleeve around the fitting to add strength, but I just couldn't get it all hot enough for true brazing.

That wire fillet ring is great though to add structural strength to the soft solder joint, I reckon that's gonna be as fixed as it ever needs to be, and I'll be putting that one in the memory bank, thanks!

Gotta say though, that's one ugly ass keg! Haha

I think they are what we call "Real ale" kegs in the UK, as they are tapped at the side and the beer is not pushed with co2 like a normal pub keg, it's just vented.

[Yummyrum]

Gotta say though, that's one ugly ass keg! Haha

I think they are what we call "Real ale" kegs in the UK, as they are tapped at the side and the beer is not pushed with co2 like a normal pub keg, it's just vented.

Thanks Moose

Yeah they sure are ugly ass . Not a lot of options for an 80liter or bigger here . These things are plentiful and fairly cheap .

What you said about not using CO2 pressure makes a lot of sense . I’ve always wondered how they would be used without the usual spear fitting .

Part of posting this was to show newbies that you don’t have to have a “classic” keg shape with welded fittings and the likes .

And on that note :
Here is my stand LOL . It’s just some wood on a Dolly .
The pump means I can boil water in it for adding to fermenters and drain the boiler into Dunder buckets or the sink/waste . This means I can have it a lot lower to the ground .
I will make a better stand one day .

[Saltbush Bill]

What you said about not using CO2 pressure makes a lot of sense . I’ve always wondered how they would be used without the usual spear fitting .

Yummy I grew up in a pub, those kegs were gassed.
They are just the old style 18 imp gal used widely in Australia.
They were still being used long after we switched to metric.
The big hole in the side was there for cleaning purposes, only used by the brewery.
The small threaded hole in the top is were a fitting screwed in. A spear was then driven down through that fitting. It would take half an hour to explain how it was done.
It was a bit of an art, you could end up with a lot of wasted beer if you did it wrong. I saw plenty of badly done ones over the years at back yard parties.There was already pressure in the keg before you hooked it up to the gas.
Today's modern kegs are a piece of cake to tap in comparison .
My rough guess would be that those went out of service in the late 70s in general.

[Yummyrum]

Thanks for that Salty . Yes I do vaguely remember you mentioning it before but as I had no mental image on how it was done , I had forgotten .
If you have the time , I’d love to hear about how it was done .

[MooseMan]

What you said about not using CO2 pressure makes a lot of sense . I’ve always wondered how they would be used without the usual spear fitting .

Yummy I grew up in a pub, those kegs were gassed.
They are just the old style 18 imp gal used widely in Australia.
They were still being used long after we switched to metric.
The big hole in the side was there for cleaning purposes, only used by the brewery.
The small threaded hole in the top is were a fitting screwed in. A spear was then driven down through that fitting. It would take half an hour to explain how it was done.
It was a bit of an art, you could end up with a lot of wasted beer if you did it wrong. I saw plenty of badly done ones over the years at back yard parties.There was already pressure in the keg before you hooked it up to the gas.
Today's modern kegs are a piece of cake to tap in comparison .
My rough guess would be that those went out of service in the late 70s in general.

Not to derail this fab thread but that's really interesting Bill.

These were/are used exclusively in the UK for real ale and are officially called casks, (Way before that, they were called a "Kilderkin" at 18gal) not kegs.
The bung hole in the side is vented to let in air (Yes, air!) as the beer is pulled from it.

I'm always on the lookout for one as they would be perfect for a solera.

Link to a UK brewery detailing the difference over here;

https://brightsidebrewing.co.uk/the-dif ... W5kNPyJoXo

[Yummyrum]

Not derailing Moose and Salty . All good info





But
As for the copper ring . It had to be soft so it can be pressed as close to the keg as possible , especially on curves like the element ferrule.
It also needs to be a solid ring if possible .

I found an old transformer ( think it was an old battery charger) that had some 2-3mm wire . It was coated in enamel insulation .

A quick application with the Mapp torch and it all burned off and annealed ( softened) the copper at the same time .

Scrape / shine the cooked copper wire clean with a SS scrubber then straighten it .

Easiest way to straighten soft copper wire is to pull it tight quickly . I screw one end in the vice . Grab the other end with the pliers .

Give it a quick tug and …. Straight wire .

Wrap around ferrule and cut ends , then Braze to form a ring . ( the Brazed end won’t ping apart while soldering .

And give it another quick polish with the SS scrubber after Brazing before soldering .


BTW : I have cleaned my bench since I tool those pics

[MooseMan]

Lovely tutorial Yummy, this kind of stuff is absolute gold for people new to building stills.
We should have a dedicated repository for these kind of metal working skills and little tricks that get lost in the bigger picture.

And your bench makes me feel so good about my own.

[Yummyrum]

Lovely tutorial Yummy, this kind of stuff is absolute gold for people new to building stills.
We should have a dedicated repository for these kind of metal working skills and little tricks that get lost in the bigger picture.

And your bench makes me feel so good about my own.

Thanks Moose,
I’m a visual learner so I tend to remember all the pics that builders on the forum ever posted and helped me along the way .
I’m just doing my bit when ever I can to pay back .

What seems like common sense to one may be an enlightening moment to another .

It takes a second to take a pic . It takes a minates to edit it and post it . But it may save someone else hours of frustration

I agree about a centralised Topic on still building Hints and tricks .
I know it was a thing in another forum I am in but it is messy for Mods to manage and most posters feel awkward double posting in two topics . ….. shame …. But is what it is .

And someone once said “ Busy bench ….. Busy mind , Empty bench … Empty mind “

A Zen moment is good now and again

[Dancing4dan]

Great write up Yummy! I have TIG welder but prefer soldering stills because it allowed me to disassemble and recycle parts as things evolved. The copper ring is a god tip.

Thanks

[Buffalo]

I looked really close at your benchtop to see if I could see the solder flux sitting around that you used on the stainless. I recently bought some Ruby's stainless steel soldering flux but haven't tried it yet. Your soldering looks great. Great tip on using wire to build up the joint.

[Reefer1]

Awesome job yummy, i am havin trouble with ss and soldering, what brand flux and solder you using, i tried several different brands supposed to work with ss can't get the solder to stick or run. I have some ss 2" tri clamp ferrules i wanna solder to a 2" copper tube.
Thanks yummy. Great job matey.

[Setsumi]

Nice to see a build documented. I tried the filit idea once with 6mm copper pipe flattend. Your wire works much better.

Your bench... Ja, mine is the same.

I would love to hear on going electric on solar. In 2 years I want to move to my coastal holiday home. First thing will be to go as much as possible to solar. In RSA we now have an option to run a water heater strait from pannels via a converter, the marketing is ademant it is not an inverter... I am a bit stoopid on this. The problem is the converter is rated at 4kW. And then you need sun, coastal here means wind and cloud. Please do a write-up on going electric on solar.

[Yummyrum]

I looked really close at your benchtop to see if I could see the solder flux sitting around that you used on the stainless.

i am havin trouble with ss and soldering, what brand flux and solder you using, i tried several different brands supposed to work with ss can't get the solder to stick or run.

Hey valid points Buffalo and Reefer .

The flux I used is “Duzall” . I bought it in NZ maybe 30 odd years ago . Unfortunately it doesn’t appear to be available any more . ( there is a pic on internet that looks the same but says it is paste …. Which it is not)

Also , I use a Hog Bristle brush ( real , not plastic) for appying and reapplying the flux .

The Solder is from Bunnings . It is Lead free plumbers solder .

The Flux is a liquid Zinc Chloride based Flux .
Same as this stuff which I also used with the same success . viewtopic.php?p=7511034#p7511034

It is made by dissolving Zinc in Hydrochloric acid .
You will find that all Zinc Chloride fluxes also contain a fare amount of HCl in them .
Harris have a Dedicated ZnCl/ HCl based SS liquid flux that contains other stuff as well that is supposed to help . I have not tried this product , as I have great success with what I use .
However , some swear by it .

[Reefer1]

Thanks Yummy. I will have a dig round see what is available, i recon it's the flux which is the important thing.
Good info thanks.

[tjsc5f]

Awesome work Yummy.
I've had some success soldering stainless flanges to copper pipe with this stuff.

[acfixer69]

I looked really close at your benchtop to see if I could see the solder flux sitting around that you used on the stainless.

i am havin trouble with ss and soldering, what brand flux and solder you using, i tried several different brands supposed to work with ss can't get the solder to stick or run.

Hey valid points Buffalo and Reefer .

The flux I used is “Duzall” . I bought it in NZ maybe 30 odd years ago . Unfortunately it doesn’t appear to be available any more . ( there is a pic on internet that looks the same but says it is paste …. Which it is not)

Also , I use a Hog Bristle brush ( real , not plastic) for appying and reapplying the flux .

The Solder is from Bunnings . It is Lead free plumbers solder . IMG_0833.jpeg

The Flux is a liquid Zinc Chloride based Flux .
Same as this stuff which I also used with the same success . viewtopic.php?p=7511034#p7511034

IMG_0836.jpeg

It is made by dissolving Zinc in Hydrochloric acid .
You will find that all Zinc Chloride fluxes also contain a fare amount of HCl in them .
Harris have a Dedicated ZnCl/ HCl based SS liquid flux that contains other stuff as well that is supposed to help . I have not tried this product , as I have great success with what I use .
However , some swear by it .

One thing that needs to be noted is your solder is more than lead free plumbers solder. Here in the USA typical plumbers solder is a 95/5, tin and antimony which will not bond to steel or stainless steel. Yours aquasafe 100 is a silver bearing solder like Harris Stay Brite and Stay Brite 8. The silver in the solder is needed for soldering copper to steel and stainless steels. Also very important is the liquid acid flux for dissimilar metal joints.

[Yummyrum]

Thanks for that AC , I guess we are pretty lucky in Aussie then .
Mind you , a 500g reel is costing around $60 Aud now …… but you can make a lot if stills and boilers with that .

[Yummyrum]

I would love to hear on going electric on solar. In 2 years I want to move to my coastal holiday home. First thing will be to go as much as possible to solar. In RSA we now have an option to run a water heater strait from pannels via a converter, the marketing is ademant it is not an inverter... I am a bit stoopid on this. The problem is the converter is rated at 4kW. And then you need sun, coastal here means wind and cloud. Please do a write-up on going electric on solar.

Might do that Setsumi
It’s definitely a topic worth discussion .
My solar setup come with a app on phone so I can see whats happening .

Just as a teaser .

The Red is production from panels , the Blue is what is going back into the grid and the Green is our house consumption .

This is a good day of solar , hardly any clouds .

This is a day when the clouds are moving

Then days like today when its been raining

[OtisT]

Great build thread Yummy. Thanks for sharing. You have some mad soldering skills.

[Steve Broady]

Here in the USA typical plumbers solder is a 95/5, tin and antimony which will not bond to steel or stainless steel.

I don’t have the stuff in front of me to look at, but I can tell you that I have made numerous successful solder joints on stainless steel in the US, using whatever is sold as lead free solder in the big box hardware stores here. I haven’t tried my electrical solder, since I know that had lead in it, but the stuff sold for plumbing seems to work just fine as long as the joint is well fluxed.

[acfixer69]

Here in the USA typical plumbers solder is a 95/5, tin and antimony which will not bond to steel or stainless steel.

I don’t have the stuff in front of me to look at, but I can tell you that I have made numerous successful solder joints on stainless steel in the US, using whatever is sold as lead free solder in the big box hardware stores here. I haven’t tried my electrical solder, since I know that had lead in it, but the stuff sold for plumbing seems to work just fine as long as the joint is well fluxed.

This is the stuff from Home Depot https://www.homedepot.com/p/Oatey-Safe- ... /100084935 it contains silver @ 50$. What most plumbers would use is https://www.supplyhouse.com/Harris-3317 ... 5-Antimony @ 31$. About 20$ a lb cheaper and most plumbers joints are cu to cu they use 95/5.
Most plumber don't shop big box stores as there first place to shop.

[Steve Broady]

Here in the USA typical plumbers solder is a 95/5, tin and antimony which will not bond to steel or stainless steel.

I don’t have the stuff in front of me to look at, but I can tell you that I have made numerous successful solder joints on stainless steel in the US, using whatever is sold as lead free solder in the big box hardware stores here. I haven’t tried my electrical solder, since I know that had lead in it, but the stuff sold for plumbing seems to work just fine as long as the joint is well fluxed.

This is the stuff from Home Depot https://www.homedepot.com/p/Oatey-Safe- ... /100084935 it contains silver @ 50$. What most plumbers would use is https://www.supplyhouse.com/Harris-3317 ... 5-Antimony @ 31$. About 20$ a lb cheaper and most plumbers joints are cu to cu they use 95/5.
Most plumber don't shop big box stores as there first place to shop.

Fair enough. I’m no plumber, I just wanted to clarify for anyone coming along later who might take your statement as saying that a home DIY guy in the US cannot use lead free plumbing solder on stainless. And in the process, I learned something today. I had no idea that the professionals are using a completely different product than is available to the DIY crowd.

[acfixer69]

I don't know when or if the box stores stopped selling 95/5 solder they use to sell it and both are labeled lead free. I wanted to save some rookie the head ache of thinking lead free did the job. It needs to be silver bearing solder and liquid zinc/HCL flux. When I started it wasn't unusual to use 50/50 solder. But mostly on larger copper drain jobs. You just need the right stuff for the job you are doing.

[Yummyrum]

Went to setup the old 4” column but the second reflux condenser ( I need two stacked) was just too high and I don’t have long enough power or cooling hoses to move it into the middle of the garage . Looks like I need to build a dedicated head.

The good news was the soldering held up just fine .

[fzbwfk9r]

I've used 95/5 on Cu/SS and it soldered just fine, once I got the heat right

it is nearly impossible in my city to find Silver bearing solder that isn't $100 per 1/2#