My wash is vinegary!!!! what do i do? only 1 day old

chowdan · Post by **chowdan** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 7:27 pm

Hey everyone.

So i've made a sugar wash and a maple syrup wash. I figured I'd do 2 different washes(thinking one of them will work). I've tried to make mead before and the 3 or 4 times I tried, they all failed. Turned into vinegar. This is what I did for these 2 mixes.

I heated up some water so it was warm enough to dissolve the sugar. I mixed in my sugar and poured it into my fermenter(i had cleaned my container with bleach water). Once inside i took my yeast and mixed it up with some water and let it sit for about 10minutes. I used bread yeast because thats all i can get in the Fiji islands. I poured my yeast into my container and closed it up. I shook it up to aerate it. I open it up and sealed it with my airlock. i use the only thing i can get...its a heinz ketchup bottle with a "stay clean cap." The cap has this little plastic device that allows the air out when the pressure builds up enough and then seals again...anyways i stuck it into my closet and checked the sugar must/mash/wash what ever you call it this morning(less than 24 hours later) and its starting to taste vinegary. I just checked my maple one and it has a very very faint flavor of vinegar. It smells great though.

Anybody can give me some information about this? what am i doing wrong? why would it be turning into vinegar so fast? If these 2 things arn't good for beginners what would you recommend?

Thanks,

Jordan

Post by **rad14701** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 7:40 pm

It's entirely possible that your improvised airlock is to blame if your mash is indeed turning to vinegar... What you may consider to be an effective airlock may be allowing air back into your carbouy... Remember, the absence of oxygen causes yeast to make alcohol while the presence of oxygen causes it to produce vinegar...

chowdan · Post by **chowdan** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 7:48 pm

rad14701 wrote:It's entirely possible that your improvised airlock is to blame if your mash is indeed turning to vinegar

hmmm....well that is entirely possible. What would you recommend me doing?? anyway i can go without using this airlock and using something else that will work better?

One question. I have read some instructions that say you take your airlock off and add more yeast. Is it alright if i open it up and add the yeast then seal it with my "great working airlock"?? haha because i did open it up to add a little more yeast and to taste it.

Post by **Dnderhead** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 7:58 pm

It sounds like it is infected hard to tell where it came forum
you cleaned fermenter so it should not be that
that leaves too things sugar or water i would say water try boiling it
another thing that would help is make starter yeast , start yeast in jar
with a little sugar a couple days ahead when it get going good then
boil water add sugar when cool add yeast I have made air locks
by useing tube start withe about 1 foot of tube In top of fermenter
make complete Lupe so it points back up put a little water in there

Post by **Dnderhead** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 8:12 pm

something i forgot to tell you if it not to sour you can "over power"
that with yeast ad lots of it

chowdan · Post by **chowdan** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 9:43 pm

Dnderhead wrote:something i forgot to tell you if it not to sour you can "over power"
that with yeast ad lots of it

So if i "over power" it like you say. What does that exactly mean? Like after it turns to vinegar i can just load the heck outta it with yeast? or do you mean like you said in the comment before....do a starter and then add it to my new batch?? I am thinking it might be our water, because we collect our water from the rain(because i live in the rainforest). But then again our sugar is cane sugar and its processed here in fiji. And if you've ever been to a 3rd world country you would know that they are no where near european standards for cleanliness. If it is our sugar what can i do to take the contamination out of it? you said boil water and add the sugar...will that kill everything?

do you have any photos of your homemade airlock?

Is it alright if i open it up and add some more yeast then seal it with my "great working airlock"?? haha because i did open it up to add a little more yeast and to taste it.

Post by **HookLine** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 10:12 pm

chowdan wrote: I am thinking it might be our water, because we collect our water from the rain(because i live in the rainforest). But then again our sugar is cane sugar and its processed here in fiji. And if you've ever been to a 3rd world country you would know that they are no where near european standards for cleanliness. If it is our sugar what can i do to take the contamination out of it? you said boil water and add the sugar...will that kill everything?

Boiling the water and sugar will sterilise everything.

What are you using for nutrients for the yeast?

chowdan wrote:do you have any photos of your homemade airlock?

Is it alright if i open it up and add some more yeast then seal it with my "great working airlock"??

I live in the tropics too, and only use a bit of (new) plastic food wrap held on with a rubber band, with a couple of small holes poked in it, for an airlock. I have not had any problems doing it that way, even in the middle of the rainy season.

It is fine to take the food wrap off and add stuff, just make sure your hands and anything that might come into contact with the inside of the fermenter is clean. You might need to replace the food wrap every time you take it off, but it is very cheap so no problem.

P.S. Ignore the insulation around the fermenter, that photo was taken in the cool time of year, I don't use insulation during the hot time (like now).

Post by **Dnderhead** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 10:15 pm

What ever gets the best start get a head of rest another way to put it
if you git enuf yeast in there it will out grow other things that is bad
so make a big yeast starter and boil water I do not thank it is air lock
2 days too quick but as i said make air lock it is simple if not understand
let me know in glad to help out

chowdan · Post by **chowdan** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 12:57 am

Wow those photos are a good reference. What do you use to hold the plastic down? it sorta looks like a rubber band??

......when you say small holes you mean like pin size holes? well tomorrow it looks like i will test both my bottles again...if both are bad im going to start a new one.

where in the tropics might you be?

Post by **HookLine** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 1:56 am

It is a bunch of rubber bands strung together.

I use a sharp pointed knife and make 2-3 small slits about 5 mm long in the middle of the cover. (Make the sure the knife is clean, and then run some hot water over the point before making the slits.)

I'm in north Australia.

What are you using for nutrients?

chowdan · Post by **chowdan** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 2:44 am

HookLine wrote:It is a bunch of rubber bands strung together.

[img]
I use a sharp pointed knife and make 2-3 small slits about 5 mm long in the middle of the cover. (Make the sure the knife is clean, and then run some hot water over the point before making the slits.)

I'm in north Australia.

What are you using for nutrients?

ahh ok now i see. umm not sure what you mean by nutrients.....im brand new to this so gotta be plain and simple with me

....hehe but like i've tried using honey, sugar, and maple syrup.

i've been looking into schools for uni in aus. hopefully end of this year ill be living in byron bay getting my bachelors in audio engineering. So yea that will be good.

Post by **HookLine** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 3:29 am

Nutrients. You can't make alcohol by just throwing yeast, plain sugar and water together. The yeast also need some nutrients. The sugar is not 'food' to yeast, it is oxygen.

Nutrients can come from a lot of different sources. Real maple syrup might be one of them.

(And you also have to do it clean, add a little acid, watch the ferment temp, etc.)

This is all basic stuff that can be found on the mother site, which you should read through at least once. (Though it is not perfect.)

Plus there is a lot of stuff on this forum to go with it. For example:

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5211

Yes, it is a bit of work to read through this and wrap your head around it, but we all had to do it one way or another, and you won't get spoonfed on this forum.

However, we are pretty friendly, helpful folk here and if you show that you have put the effort in to learn the basics, you will get a lot of encouragement and good advice with whatever problems you still have.

And Byron Bay is a damn nice place to live. They have a fantastic blues festival there every year.

Mopar Redneck · Post by **Mopar Redneck** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 3:49 am

Everyone seems to be missing a couple of key points: In the original post the use of bleach is stated. Big NO NO! Use only water and some mild dish soap very thouroughly rinsed out. Aus may be different in this respect, but here in the US the largest "pourable" ketsup bottle is about 3/4 quart. (1 liter) He is also putting it in his closet to ferment. This sounds suspiciously like a high school kid trying to make some quick cheap party hooch. More importantly, the low volume of the wash indicates that it is slightly possible that if he is using a single package of bakery yeast, in one day the volume that he is speaking of may just be "turboed" out.

So: original poster: How much wash are you trying to make?, Are you old enough to legally possess alcohol that will not get you arrested?
If I am going to jail I want it to be for scarring Johnny Walker, not contributing to the delinquency of a minor.

Post by **HookLine** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 3:55 am

I have used bleach for sterilising the fermenter, with no probs, as long as you rinse it very well afterwards.

And, chowdan, if you are underage in your country, then go away and don't come back until you are an adult. This forum does not tolerate underage people. Seriously.

chowdan · Post by **chowdan** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 1:11 pm

Mopar Redneck wrote:So: original poster: How much wash are you trying to make?, Are you old enough to legally possess alcohol that will not get you arrested?
If I am going to jail I want it to be for scarring Johnny Walker, not contributing to the delinquency of a minor.

haha im 18. Which in fiji 18 is the legal drinking/clubbing age. As i am aware of there is no processing age. All of the fijians make there own alcohol, but everytime i try to do it there way it always has failed. Probably because im white and there not. Usually the reason. There more lucky than me.

I am trying to make one liter wash for a start. Only because i don't want to put all my money towards a 5-10liter wash and find out that i have failed. Once i know i can make a one liter wash then i will be happy to make a much bigger wash. I started to research oh home brewing when i was 15. Never was allowed to make some due to my parents thinking im going to become an alcoholic. So now a few years later i tell them im going to try to make some and they said ok, never said i couldn't. The only warm place in my house is in my closet. Thats why i am storing it in there. Back when i lived in the usa my mother and father went to see an aunt and uncle and said my uncle had made some of his own wine. I was amazed by that(i was 4 or 5) and thought that it would be cool to be able to say i made a bottle of alcohol and gave it to a gift to siblings and friends for birthdays and xmas presants.

But if no one shall give me imput then fine and i shall go off and keep trying myself.

Sorry everyone for bothering you.

Jordan

CoopsOz · Post by **CoopsOz** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 1:26 pm

Righto....you pulled the heart strings! How much sugar did you use? In my calcs I figure for a 1L 10% you are only looking at using about 165g of sugar.

This is what I'd do (if I was using things from around the house), take your 165g of sugar and dissolve it in 500ml of hot water, top up with cold water to the 1L mark. Squeeze 1/4 of a lemon into your wash and a tablespoon (edit - 1 teaspoon should be sufficient) of tomato paste (or a handful of wheatgerm, cornflakes etc). Once the wash is cool, pitch your bakers yeast but don't seal it up just yet, wait an hour or so for the yeast to multiply and put it under an airlock. Leave the fermenter in a warm place and wait until the bubbles stop.

Post by **HookLine** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 1:34 pm

But if no one shall give me imput then fine and i shall go off and keep trying myself.

Sorry everyone for bothering you.

Jordan

Jordan, if you are legal drinking age then there is no problem, you are welcome. I am sure you can understand why we have to be very careful about underage people here. We do get one or two turning up every so often and they have to be quickly and firmly sent away. We have no choice about that.

If you are genuine and put some effort in to learn the basics first, then you will get all the friendly help you need.

Cheers.

Post by **HookLine** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 1:41 pm

Tablespoon of tomato paste might be a bit much for a litre ferment, Coops. I use a heaped tablespoon per 15-20 litres.

A level teaspoon would be plenty for a litre. Even 1/2 teaspoon would be enough.

I also add the tomato paste and acid (lemon juice) to the hot water, helps sanitise it.

CoopsOz · Post by **CoopsOz** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 1:45 pm

Hook, your probably more qualified to answer than myself as I only do UJSM & DWWG. I was just trying to highlight how little sugar one would use for a litre wash.

Post by **HookLine** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 1:48 pm

CoopsOz wrote:I was just trying to highlight how little sugar one would use for a litre wash.

Fair enough.

chowdan · Post by **chowdan** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 4:42 pm

forgot to mention that the maple wash isn't tasting vinegary.

CoopsOz · Post by **CoopsOz** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 4:54 pm

Chowdan, maybe I missed it but how much sugar/maple syrup was used? This is very important as it establishes your original specific gravity (og), although you are saying it smells like vinegar so that would indicate that it's not a problem. I'd stay away from the maple syrup for the minute as it introduces a whole new set of parameters ie, sugar content of the syrup etc. If you stick with a known value (read=sugar) it is a hell of a lot easier to help you. Even if you don't have a hydrometer if you follow a simple recipe like DWWG, all the measuring is done for you. I'd like to help more but I'm gonna need more info.

chowdan · Post by **chowdan** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 4:58 pm

i understand. I'm in other fourms on different topics and have had the same problem.

I used about 1 1/2cups of sugar for 1 liter. I think my water and sugar both are contaminating the wash.

So the sugar is the air for the yeast? and the tomato paste is the nutrients?

One side of my family is very very very big into drinking wine. They are italian. The otherside of my family is big into beer, brandy, tequila and sometimes they drink mead. That side is dutch. I thought it would be good to give a bottle of wine or something as a gift. Cheap and fun to make is a bonus

....But thank you for giving info. I am reading the sites now.

...very interesting

thanks

whats a good site to buy caps, corks and things to put the caps and corks on?

chowdan · Post by **chowdan** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 5:02 pm

CoopsOz wrote:Chowdan, maybe I missed it but how much sugar/maple syrup was used? This is very important as it establishes your original specific gravity (og), although you are saying it smells like vinegar so that would indicate that it's not a problem. I'd stay away from the maple syrup for the minute as it introduces a whole new set of parameters ie, sugar content of the syrup etc. If you stick with a known value (read=sugar) it is a hell of a lot easier to help you. Even if you don't have a hydrometer if you follow a simple recipe like DWWG, all the measuring is done for you. I'd like to help more but I'm gonna need more info.

I used cane sugar also.

about 1 1/2 cups of sugar and maple suryp.

CoopsOz · Post by **CoopsOz** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 5:04 pm

1 1/2 cups of sugar is 375g if my maths serves me correct, that is to much sugar for a 1L wash. According to the parent site that has a SG of 1.143 and a potential of 22.1%. That much sugar will yield about 11% in a 2L wash.

Post by **Dnderhead** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 5:15 pm

four air lock you can use hoes that fits in hole in cap run hoes into
cap of water so it can bubble, water will keep bad things from getting in
and i would boil sugar water

chowdan · Post by **chowdan** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 8:10 pm

CoopsOz wrote:1 1/2 cups of sugar is 375g if my maths serves me correct, that is to much sugar for a 1L wash. According to the parent site that has a SG of 1.143 and a potential of 22.1%. That much sugar will yield about 11% in a 2L wash.

Ahhh ok..... now i understand. I've read alot and learned alot today. Thank you very much!!! I've been reading on the mother site pretty much all day. It's very interesting actually.

Would someone be willing to share there favorite recipe?

Post by **HookLine** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 8:13 pm

The 'Tried and True Recipes' section is a good place to start.

CoopsOz · Post by **CoopsOz** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 8:36 pm

I drink pretty much UJSM only, but that takes a couple of generations to get the flavour right. I think your best bet would be the Deathwish wheatgerm recipe as it's good to go first time, plus it is easy as......although the initial 90min boilup is time consuming but it is pretty important.

chowdan · Post by **chowdan** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 1:39 am

CoopsOz wrote:I drink pretty much UJSM only, but that takes a couple of generations to get the flavour right. I think your best bet would be the Deathwish wheatgerm recipe as it's good to go first time, plus it is easy as......although the initial 90min boilup is time consuming but it is pretty important.

well everyone. my maple wash has turned out well. I checked on it about 2 minutes ago. Smells good, tastes...actually good!! since this is the second day i have to say that it is the longest fermenting wash i've had! what did i do to have it not vinegary?? i don't relaly have any idea! but im happy that im moving towards the right direction. And since now that this is going well(so far) in a month or so i will be able to tell how good it really is.

A month should be long enough right?

well everybody its almost 9:40pm here and im stoked about my first successful wash. So im heading out to celebrate with some friends and fam.

thank you everyone!