Sourmash or not?

[ScottishBoy]

Hi All,
I was just wondering if anyone had a strong preference for sourmash or not. Im finding it to be alright, but I really seem to be drawn towards the less sour whiskeys. Having only recently started to drink whiskey, it may also be that my pallette needs to mature. Im wondering if I want to really commit to going down the road of sourmash or if I want to try a few other things.
Suggestions? Thoughts? Comments?

[rubber duck]

I like it because it's easier to make a consistent product batch to batch and because it lowers the ph, lower ph helps to keep bacteria in check.

If don't like sourmash your probably drinking the wrong stuff.

[Dnderhead]

real sour mash is not a "flavor" so much it is a proses. whereby the grain/yeast is cooked in the still, then part or all is used in the mash.
this way the grain was cooked and so was the yeast for nutrients. it is rather inefficient as only part of the grain that is cooked can be used in the mash.
today it is done different I believe, as all the grain is precooked,distilled on the grain then some is added back to the next ferment to lower PH. this way it is more efficient and they can call it sour mash by law. unless you are setup to distill on the grain you cannot do the real thing. this is best accomplished with a still that has steam/hot water or a stirring device . or a combination of such.

[ScottishBoy]

I do like the simplicity and the speed, Im just wondering if I might be missing out on something by not going the full 7 or so generations to make a sour mash whiskey. I often stop short and try another recipe.

Im also wondering if there are people out there who like one over the other ( mostly in terms of taste) who could say why and possibly pique my curiosity towards a longer run.

The last sourmash whiskey I had was commercial and I wasnt all that impressed. I cant remember the brand, but it said "SourMash Whiskey" on it. The 1st gen of the UJSSM oaked was excellent and the sunsequent batches were good, but I felt like they lost a little of that clean edge. Im having difficulty describing it, but it picked up a little tiny "bite" to it. Kind of like a small hint of sorrell/lemon/echo of sour. Its not a bad bite, but Im wondering if Im moving closer to a JD...I guess the only way to find out is to try. Right now I have some 3rd generation that I was considering stopping to try something else.

I guess I could buy another fermenter and an airlock...I could keep it in my office to avoid the 2 container limit in the kitchen.

Damn, I just talked my self into it..didnt I?

Wow...bitten by the whiskey bug...havent even looked at the Rice Vodka I made because there is always sweet golden whiskey around...just waiting to be enjoyed with some coke and ice.

SB

[kiwistiller]

If you're going to play around with UJSM, I'd strongly suggest making a varient using a more complex grain bill, and letting it age to get rid of that sugarhead taste. Try 60% corn 20% barley malt and 20% wheat or rye if you prefer the spicy notes. made a huge difference to the product for me making it with a more bourbonish grain bill. most of my stuff is past the year mark now, and it's starting to sing. Not sure it will ever be topshelf (it's sugarhead afterall) but as a something to serve to the rabble, it is pretty great.

[blind drunk]

Hey ScottishBoy, why don't you use a different grain instead of corn but keep the process the same. I've just started with wheat, rye, barley malt and soon will use flaked barley as well. Nothing to report yet as it's still bubbling. It might be the corn that needs changing and not the process so much. Just a thought, bd.

ed - and what kiwi said. All my UJSSM is a mix of whatever I have on hand and want to try. Usually some wheat, barley and rye mixed in with the corn. I've even used old bread (sometimes I have lots).

[MuleKicker]

Ive found Ive got a real taste for bourbon these days. Im just getting into wiskeys so I gotta get this process down, or im gonna have a real spendy habbit on my hands. The corny, earthy, nuty, goodness.......mmmmmmmmm I think im gonna have one now.

[Fester]

ScottishBoy, break down and buy an oak barrel. Fill it up with the best bourbon that you can make at about 65% ABV and then try to forget that you have it for at least a year. Guaranteed goodness. That "bite" is just young whiskey talking to you. As with some kids, its best to just lock em up for a few years and forget em, haha. (joke... ok?)
The difference between young and mature whiskey is profound. The barrel is alchemy for alcohol.

... most of my stuff is past the year mark now, and it's starting to sing. Not sure it will ever be topshelf (it's sugarhead afterall)...

I'd bet kiwi's year old stuff is better than commercial "top shelf".

Fester

[ScottishBoy]

Broke down and visited the brew shop on the way home...ahem.

Topped out the 3rd generation and then put some back in for the start of the next...keeping the container in my office. This morning it smelled like beer in my office...ahhh...

Read more last night while I worked on the third batch and decided that going with a more diverse grain bill might be just the thing. I have been cutting my Corn with about 20% wheat in the previous batches, but I didnt do it the last two. Been more concerned with the oaking/flavoring.

So I decided a few things:
1. Time to start keeping a real journal
2. Time to pursue the multigrain method
3. I will keep one fermenter going with a UJSSM for at least seven gens to see what its like on the other side of the rainbow.
4. ...you guys are great!


Fester: The cost is a real turn off for me and I cant seem to get a good bead on a dependable barrell maker. Heard some real horror stories.

[kiwistiller]

Fester: Nah. Not yet anyway. Next try (all grain) I hope for that, but I've gotten a lot better at cutting since that stuff was distilled. Always learning I guess.

[Fester]

The cost is a real turn off for me and I cant seem to get a good bead on a dependable barrell maker. Heard some real horror stories.

yep, get a 10 or 15 gallon Gibbs. no horror. its only money, you will make more of it you tight fisted scottish bas%$&rd, haha... Its the best tool for this hobby other than your still. at some point, you will do it, its just a matter of when not if. (remember: you will need to fill it soon after you take delivery of it. if you only have 2 or 3 gallons on hand and you order a 15 gallon barrel you will work your ass off to fill it)

Fester: Nah. Not yet anyway. Next try (all grain) I hope for that, but I've gotten a lot better at cutting since that stuff was distilled. Always learning I guess.

Sir Kiwi, I've had lots of store bought top shelf [and bottom shelf too ]. My meager mashings puts them all to shame. I've read enough of your posts to know you are ahead of the curve, far ahead of me, and quite possibly ahead of all the store bought swill. Your modesty is refreshing. But maybe because I make the worlds best hootch I'm not afflicted with modesty?

Kiwi, it is very ok to blend your best with your "average", i do it all the time with great results. But again, I think you are just being false modest. If I had a spare liver I would visit you in kiwiland.

ModestToTheLastDrop, Fester

[Husker]

Kiwi, it is very ok to blend your best with your "average", i do it all the time with great results. But again, I think you are just being false modest. If I had a spare liver I would visit you in kiwiland.

ModestToTheLastDrop, Fester

Actually, I frequently do my blending with my 'best', and some commercial.

The blend recipe I use is:

1. take a bottle of Jack, Maker's, Evans, or whatever.
2. make sure that bottle is empty or close to empty.
3. if close to empty (say the inside is wet, due to just being poured out), you are fine. If only close to empty, open the top, turn upside down until just a wetness is on the inside of bottle.
4. Blend by filling the rest of the bottle with your best.

Friends always wonder why my Beam, Jack, or MMark is different, but much 'better' than they remember I tell folks 'not' in the know, that it is simply all in the blending.

H.

[Fester]

laugh my ass off because it is just so true. you've got "blending" down to a science.
blending their bottle with your own hootch that is.
it only gets better over time. so i'd suggest you let it age at least a day in the commercial bottle.

LMcommercialAO, Fester

[ScottishBoy]

Ran my fourth generation of UJSSM last night. "Low and slow and good to go".
Wow. Much better than the third batch. Full of Nice Corny goodness, although its got a bit of a bite to it. But I cant complain too much.
Im looking forward to seeing how much corn taste it ends up with. Still thinking of cutting this up with some wheat, but much better than I had hoped.

[WalkingWolf]

I added 1 cup flaked rye and 1 cup flaked oats to a 4th generation UJSSM corn. I like the corn on oak O'k but I too am looking for some complexity (if you will ) in the spirit. My first taste of "mixed grain" flavor was the all-bran with the corn flakes, rye and oat flakes added. Both my wife and I enjoyed this flavor the best. I'd like to get this same flavor profile but with more body. I will pick up some wheat to add also. Next i will try running all of these grains through my grain mill on a coarse-meal setting to see if this will enhance the flavors.

The last 3 batches I've run have been "single-run" low and slow. I'll always remember fester's words, ' . . . wish I'd a listened to the pot-stillers more'.