Need help with pot still

[RyanP]

I need some help with a few questions. If ive got a 5 gallon pot that im distilling with, what size copper pipe should i come out the top with. 1/2 inch or 3/4 inch? How much height off the top of the pot do i need before it turns toward my condenser.And when I put a thermometer on the top, does the inside need to be in the vapor or in the actual mash to get the right reading. Can you use silver solder when goin from ss to copper as long as its lead free?

[Mud Mechanik]

I would use 3/4 inch, don't even worry about a thermometer ( not needed with a pot still ), and you can solder stainless to copper but it is tricky, there are a few threads on here that explain how.

[RyanP]

Can you explain the reason not to have a thermometer? And what about the height coming out of the top before it turns to the condenser.

[Mud Mechanik]

There really is no set rule to my knowledge on the column height, with a 3/4 inch tube, I would feel good with a foot or so before turning downward to a condenser. A thermometer on a pot still will do nothing more than let you know the vapor temp. which will only confuse you into trying to control the temp. with your heat and that is not what you need to do. Just heat it up until you get the takeoff rate you are shooting for ie; for stripping runs, fire it hard or to a condenser limit, on spirit runs fire it hard until you see drops then back the heat down until you get a steady drip, drip, drip or maybe even a small sized stream.

[RyanP]

If i heated it up enough, wouldnt the water evaporate at a certain temp and you'd get watered down product?

[Mud Mechanik]

stripping runs will come off at a lower proof(more water), you are correct, but your condenser would probably not handle that much steam so you would then back down the heat a little. I may have over stated the firing on a stripping run, just get you a good stream coming out and if the diameter of the stream is getting bigger and bigger, you may be over firing it. Will you be using a parrot for your distillate? If not then check your proof as you make cuts, when the proof gets really low the run is done, if you was to keep firing after the proof gets down to around 20% or 10 proof, you would indeed make steam. The boiling ranges of ethanol and water are some 40 degreesF apart, 172 vs. 212.

[RyanP]

no parrot

[Mud Mechanik]

Sounds like you do not have much stillin time under your belt, before you go to the trouble of figuring out how to get a thermometer in the vapor path, give it a try without it, it is not as hard as it sounds and people here are always ready to help. You will be a pot stilling pro in no time, it just takes practice.

[WalkingWolf]

Hello RyanP and welcome to HD.

Mud Mechanik has given you the "how-to's" on pot stillin'. It looks/sounds like you're still pretty wet behind the ears so you definitely need to keep reading. This hobby is fun and very rewarding but there are REAL dangers involved and you need to understand what is going on when you are running your still. This is the end of my preaching.

Back to your initial inquiry -- I'll attach this still link. It's the potstill that I currently use.

I've run this still in 3/4", 1" and now 2". I'd strongly recommend you go with at least 1" (or 2" if you are willing to spend the extra money). The 3/4" is painfully slow. It will produce the same quality liquor as the 1" or 2" just much slower. The 1" materials can be gotten for around $60.00 if you buy all new stuff at a Lowe's or Home Depot. None of the stores have anything larger than 1" around here so to go larger I had to order.

I had a thermometer on my first potstill. It did help with education initially to give feedback as to what was going on inside. When I made more stills I didn't put a thermometer. If you want it then put it. You'll like it initially then you'll probably wish you hadn't put it in. It's only a matter of changing out the T to get rid of the thermometer hole. As you run the still you'll get used to the "language" it speaks. Before long you'll know exactly where you're at by the sounds it's making. I think you'll be well served in reading up and constructing yourself a parrot

The still linked is easy to construct an not difficult to learn to run. The angled piece on this particular still is 15".

[myles]

OK Ryan,
Height of the pot neck - anything you like that is convenient. Start at the collection end of your condenser and work backwards to your boiler. I like the convenience of collecting at work bench height, so have a taller pot neck. All it does is saves you getting a bad back.

Diameter off the boiler? Bigger the better, but matched to the boiler. For a keg I use 2" mostly, or 1.5". 5 gallon - 1.5" would be OK but 2" would be too big. Smaller just means higher vapour speed. 1" would be better than 3/4" and do not consider 1/2"

Silver solder for stainless to copper? Absolutely. More silver the better, but more silver needs hotter flame. You DO need special flux for stainless, normal flux just wont do it.

Thermometer? Usefull if you do strip runs. I put one in and monitor the vapour temperature to decide when to switch off the power on the strip run. On a 5 gallon still? Possibly not worth it. Use a keg to strip with, and keep the 5 gallon one for spirit runs. And build a parot.

[RyanP]

what time difference are we talking time wise in 3/4 compared to 1inch stack. Im not limited to materials. My neighbor is a plumber. Would a 2inch stack to a 1/2 inch worm be effecient?

[Mud Mechanik]

what time difference are we talking time wise in 3/4 compared to 1inch stack. Im not limited to materials. My neighbor is a plumber. Would a 2inch stack to a 1/2 inch worm be effecient?

Thanks Walking Wolf and Myles for jumping in, RyanP, if you have access to plumbing materials, why not take the advise of the 2 experts' previous post. I can speak from my own experience as I too have a pot still, I started out with a 15.5 gallon keg and a 30 inch tall column and a 3/8 inch takeoff line through a liebeg, that bugger was waaaaay too small, it took me 2.5 hours to do a sripping run, I then went with a 1/2 inch takeoff and cut my stripping time in half, now I am up to a 3/4 inch takeoff and it is like putting a power programmer on a powerstroke diesel . I can also make veeeeery slow spirit runs with it as well, for the added $4.00 you will spend on 3/4" over 1/2", you will save yourself many headaches and lots of propane.

[rubber duck]

Ryan your getting a lot of good advice. I'll add my 2C also.

There are no hard and fast rules on a pot still. I like 18" of 2in then slowly reduce to a 3/4in inside of 1in leibeg condenser, or a 1/2in worm. I also like kegs better then a pot, if your using a 5 gallon pot on a kitchen stove a shorter column might make more sense on account of the height.

Keep reading and make sure you know what your doing before you do it. I think most guys put in about 80 hours of reading before they do their first run.

[RyanP]

Thank you everyone for all the helpful advise. All the material goin into this build is absolutely free. All the copper pipe, filltings, everything is just material that has been picked up off the job site over the years. We've got 5 gallon buckets slap full of nothing but copper fittings from 90's to reducers to t's and anything else you can think of. I dont know if this is gonna work or not, but we came up with something a little different last night. From the top of the pot, we soldered two 3/4 inch stacks coming up a foot and then brought them together to a T. Then came out about another foot with 3/4 inch pipe to a reducer where we have a 3/8 worm thats about 12-23 ft in total length that will sit in an iced bucket of water. Will going from two 3/4 inch stacks reduced to one 3/8inch condenser be too much of a decrease in diameter and create back pressure or will it flow ok? Heres a quick rough sketch up of what we got so far. We can cut in a parrot or thump tank at any point in time if we want to. Im just not educated enough on how a parrot is exactly designed.

[WalkingWolf]

That design should work. 3/4 to 3/8 reduction to the worm will be fine. The coils in the worm will knock down the vapor. IMO your rate limiting junction will be where the two 3/4 come together and go into a single 3/4. If you could make this single a 1" you'd get a significantly better performance. Get a wash on and give it a go.

good luck

[Mud Mechanik]

http://homedistiller.org/forum/download ... &mode=view
This is a parrot, probably the prettiest one I have ever seen, but still a parrot. The distillate from your still drips in the cup on the side of the parrot and enters the tall tube at the bottom, when the level reaches the top it will float a hydrometer for constant abv readings, the overflow from the tube will fall into the outer cup where it is routed to your collection jar. It is just easier to see when your abv is falling, and if you are as good of a craftsman as Kentucky Shinner, it will add lots of class to your still

[exon]

I know nothing

RD sez 'average bloke may read 80hrs before 1st run.'

I'll easily exceed that!

Conventional wisdom gives the ixnay on a thermometer for a potstill, but many folks suggest boil chips.
EZ enough !
and can't hurt...

I like the idea of some copper wire wrapped around a triangular mandrel into coin sized rings of 3 - 4 wraps.
or bent pre-82 US pennies...
or 1/2" long pieces sawn off some 1/2" copper tube.
exon

[RyanP]

So we got it set up inside on the stove top and water to just run some water through to check for leaks. Everything is good, but we dont have a good seal on the top of the pot with the lid. We got couple paper clips and clamped them down, but theres got to be a better and easier way. Any suggestions?

[Mud Mechanik]

mix you up some flour and water to a "little thicker than toothpaste" consistency and make you a gasket, works like a charm.

[ArkyJ]

Mud! That ain't no Parrot. That's art. Be a shame to use it. A damn fine centerpiece to the dinning room table and a conversation piece to boot.
ArkyJ

[myles]

It would help if we could see a picture of your pot. There are different options for getting a seal and some of them only work in certain situations. I suspect you have a basic stock pot - but could be wrong.

That parrot is a nice bit of work. There is more to this craft than just efficiency. There are still designs out there that are really good a turning wash into alcohol, but sometimes we need more than that.

Even in a pot still there are options - if running a thumper I might go for a smaller diameter neck to increase vapour speed to aid in production of smaller bubbles. Basic pot to condenser, you can run bigger tube for increased production speed. Doubling up the number of necks gives you more surface area with minimal expense, compared to larger tube.

Bring art into the equation and you could go even further. Want a tapered lynn arm?

[goose eye]

good job

like that holly berry. stays green in the winter an breaks up smoke real nice. magnolua will to but it
takes some work

so im tole

[RyanP]

Ok so we got some good progress. We got the still running today with just water. Had to do some adjustments on the lid, but got it sealed tight. Cleaned out the pot and everything else and got it set back up on the stove. Ive had some basic mash working since last tuesday afternoon. 2 gallons water, 2 lbs sugar, 2lbs corn meal and a packet of active dry east. The mash was still working but since we were gonna trash the first actual run, we tossed it in and put some heat to it. Got the temp up to around 175 and we didnt gettin any results for a good 20 -30 minutes. Slowly increased the heat and stopped it around 200 F. At that point we started to get a steady drip that eventually turned into a steady stream. We tossed the first 5 oz at the beginning. We got almost a quart of almost clear product. When i say "almost" it had a slight haze to it. We threw it in the freezer since we didnt have a alcometer to test the proof. Its been in for over 3 hours and the consistantcy is the same from the beginning. Im guess it to be 70+ proof, but who knows. I have a question. We poured the mash off the top of the bucket and left the corn meal in the bottom. We can add more water and sugar and yeast to exsisting corn meal and start another batch up right? We've got pictures of setup on my neighbors phone but i cant figure out how to get them to my email.

[WalkingWolf]

yea -- you can toss in more sugar and let'er rip. Put 2 pounds of sugar per gallon of water and you'll get a little more output. Running 2 gallons at a time will be difficult to get decent cuts. As you say "almost" and then "have a slight haze" -- that slight haze means you were already into the tails pretty good. Just my opinion -- upgrade to a minimum of 5 gallon (20 liter) ferment. Upgrade the pot to a larger volume. You need enough wash to be able to get decent separation for the cuts. You can do it in small volumes but it's tight and the quality usually suffers.

congrats on a "first-run" and many more runs in your future.

WalkingWolf

[Samohon]

All good advice RyanP... I use the same setup as Rubber Duck and get excellent results constantly....
Once you learn to drive what you have safely, you'll be ready for any modification you deem fit to install...

Congrats on a first run, keep us posted...

[RyanP]

[WalkingWolf]

I'm too drunk to see anything but the larger pic. Anything you put together that'll get you liquor is a start. Looks like you got a serviceable rig together. From what I see your pot looks like a 16qt (4 gallon). That's what I got started on. You can run 3.5 gallons of an UJSSM ( without any WHEAT -- wheat will foam like you've never seen). This will give you a little more room for making cuts. I made some fine liquor with that rig. Problem I had is the pot fell apart rather quickly and I had to do two runs to finish a 5 gallon ferment. I upgraded to a 7.5 gallon "brazier" (or brasier ?) pot that could hold a whole ferment for one run -- you won't regret this upgrade.

good luck

[exon]

Yup... I got the same cheapo pot.
Gotta look for one of those 7.5gal brazier pots!
A more reasonable size.
Anyone got a source?
exon

[myles]

OK I can see the reasoning behind the brazing pots. Only about 6" high but nice and wide - brilliant for a covert reflux still. However when it comes to 6 or 7 gallons, do yourself a favour and get a small keg. If you can get a short fat one they are even better.



Tri clamp into 2" tube, and then do anything you like. They will last decades longer than any stock pot, and are already sealed and come with a pot neck conector pre-fitted. If you want a 5 gallon pot for on the grain distilling - WELL that is a different issue.

Use a stock pot if you must. A copper pot is better - even if you ave to make one yourself.

[WalkingWolf]

Space is still the issue with the mini keg. The total height on this is 32.5". I can still lower it 1.5" if I would have needed to. The height constraint was my limiting factor. I've seen a number of cook top configuration without the hood that have substanatial head room even to the point of running a column on a stove-top. This pot is a 7.5 gallon.

The other thing about the large foot print of the pot is it will extend over two burners and it does make a difference when you're heating up.