what to do with my bad cider

[naeco]

I had started 15 gallon of cider 1 year ago that I taught would be fantastic but for some reason ... it tastes really bad so I really want to distill it now to make a neutral spirit(+-Vodka) !!!!

My problem is that the ABV is arroung 6-7% top and I will not get a lot out of that after distillation. Can I add lots of sugar(cane, dextrose, brown sugar ?????????) into the bad cider and let it ferment to the highest the yeast can live in and then distill it.

I will use a pot still and run it in the still twice. The fist run will be fast and the second as slow as I can. Do you think I will end up with something good and would adding sugar damage the possible spirit or it should not really affect the taste ?

thank you for the help !

[Dnderhead]

i would not try,once something has alcohol in it its hard to restart fermenting .
make a wash to add.

[Prairiepiss]

Add some feints to it and run it?

[naeco]

i would not try,once something has alcohol in it its hard to restart fermenting .
make a wash to add.

What is a wash ?

Add some feints to it and run it?

what is a feints ?


If I succeed into restarting fermentation and but i as high as I can ... is it possible to get a quality spirit out of it all ?

[Dnderhead]

a wash is a thin ferment, made with sugar/nutrients /yeast etc.
feints are the third cut when you distill..

[KY1792]

I had 5 gallons of one year old hard cider at 6%, and found it not to my taste as with 2 gallons of 12% sac mead. I co-mingled them and did a slow run in the pot still and got a few quarts of 70% that was quite tasty.

[naeco]

OK thanks everyone.

last question : since the ABV is so low, I want to restart fermentation but even if I succeed do you think the higher ABV obtained with cane sugar will taste as good as distilled natural apple sugar ?

[Braz]

i would not try,once something has alcohol in it its hard to restart fermenting .
make a wash to add.

Pay heed to what Dunder is trying to tell you here.

You will be better off making a sugar wash and adding that to your 6% cider than adding sugar and trying to restart your fermentation. Wineo's Plain Old Sugar Wash would be a good recipe for this purpose (in the Tried & True section. Additionally, you seem to want to push the % of your wash really high. That won't make good liquor.

If I were you, I'd make 5 or 10 gallons of WPOSW which should ferment out to around 12% and add that to your 15 gallons of 6% cider. Then I'd run that twice in the pot still, as you are planning to do. It won't get you vodka but might get you a nice apple eau de vie. Then, if you want, you can age it on some oak and hope for a nice apple brandy in a few months. Last time I made apple brandy I added 1/4 cup of raisins and a tsp of maple syrup per gallon in the aging jar and it added a nice well rounded but subtle flavor component.

[Dnderhead]

you could also make and distill separate..then mix to git abv up to 30-40%

[naeco]

Additionally, you seem to want to push the % of your wash really high. That won't make good liquor.

Why not ?

The cider is still fementing (a small bubble every 20 minutes) but safale S-04 wont take me very high so I picked up some Lalvin 1118, yeast nutrient and yeast energiser. Lalvin can go as high as 18% so what would be the highest you recomend I go to get a good liquor ?

[Dnderhead]

about 7% much above that you start having .hot biting,off flavors,lack of flavor.
then when distilled these can carry over,as more fores,tales,and even throughout the harts.so you end up throwing out more than you gained by making a high abv wash.
when you make wine you want the higher abv as it keeps better,longer shelf life.
when you make a wash/mash for brandy ,your after the flavor.as well as alcohol
if you had enough id say run all apple wash.even if it was 5%
legally brandy wash cant have sugar but some on here "cheat"but dont push it.
I found that white grape concentrate is good for this.much more so than sugar.
apple is going to have a lot of heads/fores to start with.its one of the worse fruits
for this.another thing to check out is why is your cider "off" is it just not to your
liking or did it git infected/turn to vinger.if so then just forgit it.you can distill
vinger even if you wanted to.

[naeco]

about 7% much above that you start having .hot biting,off flavors,lack of flavor.
then when distilled these can carry over,as more fores,tales,and even throughout the harts.so you end up throwing out more than you gained by making a high abv wash.
when you make wine you want the higher abv as it keeps better,longer shelf life.
when you make a wash/mash for brandy ,your after the flavor.as well as alcohol
if you had enough id say run all apple wash.even if it was 5%
legally brandy wash cant have sugar but some on here "cheat"but dont push it.
I found that white grape concentrate is good for this.much more so than sugar.
apple is going to have a lot of heads/fores to start with.its one of the worse fruits
for this.another thing to check out is why is your cider "off" is it just not to your
liking or did it git infected/turn to vinger.if so then just forgit it.you can distill
vinger even if you wanted to.

Dnderhead, you seem to really know what you are talking bout so I will do what you think is right. Just to make sure ... you recommend I do not tamper with my cider and distill it the way it is as by adding sugar and increasing the ABV, I could ruin the quality of the final spirit ?

As far as distilling apple cider, do you recommend I discard the first 50ml for every 10liter distillation on both the first and second run so that would be a total of 100ml to be on the safe side ?

[Dnderhead]

if you have enough for a run then distill it as is.id take maybe 2 or 3 50mil you wont be wasting anything
as these are heads .Id do this on the spirits run.

[naeco]

if you have enough for a run then distill it as is.id take maybe 2 or 3 50mil you wont be wasting anything
as these are heads .Id do this on the spirits run.

Dnderhead, I really appreciate your help and want to make sure I do exactly what you think is best. When you say 2 or 3 50ml ... you mean I should discard 150ml for every 10 liter ?

Is the spirit run the second run where you get the final product so you keep everything during the first distillation and and discard 150ml during the second ?

Thanks again

[Dnderhead]

no from the run,witch you said was 20l?..this will be in early heads and there not good anyway.

[naeco]

no from the run,witch you said was 20l?..this will be in early heads and there not good anyway.

the cider is in 20L carboy but the still is only 10 liters. So I only discard during the first run(150ml)?

[Dnderhead]

take fore shots out of the second run if your running twice ,,,(the last run you make is a spirits run)
take a good 50ml each run..then run all off in jars,cover with coffee filters or similar,,sort jars next day.

[naeco]

.then run all off in jars,cover with coffee filters or similar,,sort jars next day.

what do you mean ?

[Braz]

.then run all off in jars,cover with coffee filters or similar,,sort jars next day.

what do you mean ?

Read this: http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 46&t=13261

Your questions in this topic seem to indicate that you don't have a very good grasp of the distillation process. That's OK, nobody is born with the knowledge. But almost everything you need to know is here if you are willing to put in a little effort to find it and read it. Folks will soon tire of answering all your basic questions unless you demonstrate a willingness to put in a little effort on your own.

Just a bit of friendly advice...

[naeco]

.then run all off in jars,cover with coffee filters or similar,,sort jars next day.

what do you mean ?

Read this: http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 46&t=13261" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Your questions in this topic seem to indicate that you don't have a very good grasp of the distillation process. That's OK, nobody is born with the knowledge. But almost everything you need to know is here if you are willing to put in a little effort to find it and read it. Folks will soon tire of answering all your basic questions unless you demonstrate a willingness to put in a little effort on your own.

Just a bit of friendly advice...

I know and appreciate the help.

thanks again to all for the help.

[naeco]

.then run all off in jars,cover with coffee filters or similar,,sort jars next day.

what do you mean ?

Read this: http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 46&t=13261" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Your questions in this topic seem to indicate that you don't have a very good grasp of the distillation process. That's OK, nobody is born with the knowledge. But almost everything you need to know is here if you are willing to put in a little effort to find it and read it. Folks will soon tire of answering all your basic questions unless you demonstrate a willingness to put in a little effort on your own.

Just a bit of friendly advice...

OK so I read it all and I might know a lot about making hard cider but I'm really a novice when it comes to distilling which seems way more exciting to me that fermenting apple juice. In is tutorial, kiwistiller explained that Apple brandy is notorious for having a large proportion of heads so I'm trying this with one of the worst possible product but what the heck ! I will use the multiple glass container/coofee filter idea and try this blending thing but will still be careful into avoiding heads as much as possible.

kiwistiller also said that for for fruit washes he only does single distillation. "not really sure why, it just tasted good the first time around I guess." Do you guys still recommend I distill twice ? I'm not really distilling a fruit washe as it is aged clear cider so I'm not sure about this one.

thanks again

[The Baker]

I've been running apple brandy recently, several runs in my pot still.
It's mainly apple with some water and sugar added to the wash at the start to make it 'easier to handle' (not so pulpy).
Just the once through the still so far,I am undecided whether to run it again.
I have separated it into litre jars, (after throwing out nearly a couple of hundred mls as foreshots) and it seems to be quite consistent between the several runs.
The first is pretty much heads, around 70% (and went into the next distillation) the second I might well put into the blend; though it is a bit headsy it is flavourful.
The last two or three litres tend to be cloudy and bluish, probably under 40%, each jar is marked (I have cleaned the still since the first run but the tendency is still there) and taste pretty tailsy so they have gone into the following run as feints also.
Around ten (plus) litres from each 50 litres in the boiler, which includes maybe ten litres of water because there is a lot of pulp in the wash. And in a couple of them two litres of apple juice; I suppose it made a difference to the fruitiness although the run without it did not seem a lot different....
I haven't chosen the cuts to keep (but will quite possibly keep almost everything for the blend that hasn't already been redistilled as feints)
or blended them yet, and as I said I don't know whether to run it a second time.
I looked up calvados on the web and found that it is run twice through the pot still but if I really like what I have I may keep it like it is.
Or run one lot the second time and compare them.
The spirit seems very firey, different to other spirit I have made though I have not made whisky or rum; but this firey quality seems to 'belong' and it is pleasant and not an uncomfortable 'burn'. Does that make sense? And the flavour is fruity, I would say. I LIKE it.