All the same?

[RumBrewer]

I have done the UJSM whiskey, sugar washes, molasses and brown sugar, apfelwein (Ed Worts) and it all seems to produce the same harsh kind of funky booze.
Last run was with new still and 5 gal wash made with 4#brown sugar and 3# honey. Made cuts every 200 ml. And got a nice neutral liter I. The middle. ( mixed cuts the next day)
Still... Not really different from the other washes, just cleaner!

WHAT GIVES? Am I accidentally stripping favors? On the last run I took tails to 20%, and they smell awful! (didn't blend them in!)

[Dnderhead]

what is you still?

[RumBrewer]

Started with a copper tube in tube coming off a pressure cooker. Now have the mighty mini from Mile High.... Running it as a pot with no reflux lines ( packed with copper )

[Dnderhead]

there will be different opinions on this but.....try insulating column..or remove the packing...(packing tends to remove flavors.
you can use scrap copper if you want) ,, and this one some will disagree,,,,make a real wash or mash..
then this should be aged.

[Prairiepiss]

Are you doing single run in pot still mode? A lot of people don't like single ran spirits. I don't. Dilute it down to 40% or below and run it again.

[RumBrewer]

Yes, single run in pot mode. Shouldn't this hold the most flavor? Shouldn't there be a distinct difference from a corn mash and apple juice wash?

[MuleKicker]

what kind of abv are your washes? are they fermenting dry?

[blind drunk]

You can do a nice spirit run by combining low wines diluted with a percentage of fresh wash/mash. Some also recycle feints to increase flavor.

[RumBrewer]

Washes all between 8-10%. All dry. I recycle feints, and just started a new rum(same ingredients) but with 50% dunder. That should give me a good side by side.

[Prairiepiss]

Yes, single run in pot mode. Shouldn't this hold the most flavor? Shouldn't there be a distinct difference from a corn mash and apple juice wash?

Yes this will give you the most flavor. But you obviously don't like the flavor your getting? So if you keep doing the same thing you will keep getting stuff you don't like.

Flavor of distilled spirits is a hard thing to wrap ones head around. What you think it should taste like and what it does taste like. Are two different things. I for one find single run spirits from a pot still to be quite funky. But after the second run I find the flavors more defined and refined. So it makes it better for me.

Another thing you mite try. Is to dilute a sampling with clean water down to a low ABV. Somewhere between 20% and 30%. I find this makes the flavors more let's say noticeable. At the higher concentrations they can be cornfusing to a pallet. Because what you have done is concentrate the flavors really tight. It's like tasting a highly concentrated juice mix before you mix it properly. Example I bought some soda extracts. Even the faintest touch of it is horrible and make you want to die. You mix it at the right concentration and its not bad. (note soda extracts suck don't use them ) So with all that said. If you run it a second time diluted with clean water. You concentrate the alcohol even further and dilute the flavors to a better drinking level. Then diluting it to drinking strength makes it even better. You can have to much flavor as you have already found out.

That's one of the good things about this hobby. You are making it for you. So experimenting is mandatory. What works for me mite not work for you. You need to find what works for you. And if you will look around. Most (not all) pot stillers do at least two runs. Not many do a single run. There are the exceptions. And some spirits you mite find you like better one way then the other.

Does this make since? I know I'm rambling a little. I'm just trying to give you something else to think about. So maybe you can see around the blinders.

[RumBrewer]

Yup. I'm certainly into experimenting... that's why I'm here.
I don't know for sure if I'm having a problem with my palate confusing stronger flavors, but it's certainly possible!

[Prairiepiss]

I have done the UJSM whiskey, sugar washes, molasses and brown sugar, apfelwein (Ed Worts) and it all seems to produce the same harsh kind of funky booze.
That statement is what got me to think this was your problem. You said harsh kind of funky. And that's how I find single pot still run spirits.
Last run was with new still and 5 gal wash made with 4#brown sugar and 3# honey. Made cuts every 200 ml. And got a nice neutral liter I. The middle. ( mixed cuts the next day)
Still... Not really different from the other washes, just cleaner!

WHAT GIVES? Am I accidentally stripping favors? On the last run I took tails to 20%, and they smell awful! (didn't blend them in!)

Now I don't wana discount any other reasons it could be. But this was my first thought. Because it hit home with me.

And you have never stated what kind of yeast you are using either? There are so many possibilitys it could be. And others have hit on a few.

[junkyard dawg]

I would suggest patience with some of your distillates.

Time makes a huge difference in the flavors you get. Raw spirits often taste similar... raw and unrefined.... Once you get to the point where you can let some things age even a little, you will be able to taste subtle differences. What was funky and hot will smooth and cool, that harsh burn will go away and you will get nice easy sipping hootch. Just give it time.

[Washashore]

And you have never stated what kind of yeast you are using either? There are so many possibilitys it could be. And others have hit on a few.

Let me guess....turbo yeast?...just a hunch.

[RumBrewer]

And you have never stated what kind of yeast you are using either? There are so many possibilities it could be. And others have hit on a few.

I ferment everything with the time and care as if I were keeping it as wine (beer). I typically use premiere cuvee on rum washes, and when I did the UJSM's a year or so ago, I used Nottingham for the first two batches, and decided that could be the issue and switched to WLP001 California ale. I have been greatly impressed with the potential yeast uses that I found on their web page: http://www.whitelabs.com/distilling/yeast.html
I will give the reflux a go on the next run and see what that does, then just strip the third if I don't like it and re-run the three and see what that does. If none of the above work, I'll have to assume it's either my cuts, or my wash.

[RumBrewer]

Let me guess....turbo yeast?...just a hunch.

Oh God No! I knew that stuff was poison long before I ever though about building a still!

[blind drunk]

I would suggest patience with some of your distillates.

Time makes a huge difference in the flavors you get. Raw spirits often taste similar... raw and unrefined.... Once you get to the point where you can let some things age even a little, you will be able to taste subtle differences. What was funky and hot will smooth and cool, that harsh burn will go away and you will get nice easy sipping hootch. Just give it time.

[RumBrewer]

OK, The VERY conservatively cut white rum I had just made when I started this thread is a week old now, and tasting very neutral...with very light sugar flavor. It's a hard thing to pin down, because it's not sweet. You mind needs sweet to tack down the flavor you associate with Sugar.

At 30...ish percent (Distilled water added to the glass) it's smooth and drinkable as hell. I am afraid that I may need to add my last batch of rum (Months old and pretty rough) to the next pot and sacrifice the months on oak. Just too many tails in it.

I can't wait to play with the Rum Oils that Pugi talks about. But let it be known that I made a very drinkable white rum without double distillation or carbon filtering.

Thanks all!

[blind drunk]

You can try and blend this lightish rum with the heavier rum from before. Could be a save

[Washashore]

Hey RumBrewer, do you make a spiced rum at all (without oak aging)? I made a REALLY heavy all molasses rum (used way too much dunder a few batches in a row) that actually tasted decent once it was spiced....I couldn't drink it neat otherwise.

[RumBrewer]

Hey RumBrewer, do you make a spiced rum?.

It's on the list of things "To Do" But I really want to nail down a good quality product before I start screwing around with flavors. I kinda think that a lot of commercially available products have missed that point.
I am sure I'll spice some funny tasting rum to cover some day, but for now if it's not drinkable it goes into the "Make Neutral" tank for later.

[Washashore]

I hear ya. I ran my latest through full reflux, copper packed column and really cleaned it up. If you haven't caramelized sugar yet, here's a great vid (minus adding butter at the end)... and never stir it. I color/flavor most of my rums with it.

[RumBrewer]

Well, I'm collecting the tails from the Banana wash now. But I still have the same basic problem.
Collected 200ml of foreshots, then went to splitting down by 400ml increments to blend tomorrow.

The fores had a HUGE banana smell, then everything cleared up until the tails that are pretty clean with a little banana and almost no cardboard.

They came through at:
#1 63%
#2 63%
#3 60%
#4 60%
#5 59%
#6 57%
#7 54%
#8 52%
#9 51%
#10 51%
#11 47%

This is a Mile High Mini tower running as a pot with copper packing.

[RumBrewer]

Not that anyone seems interested, but This has some days on it now, and it's ok.
I Ended up with 3 bottles that I treated differently.
#1 got mulling spices and orange zest. Too much cinnamon in commercial mulling spice, but it's good.
#2 got a sliced banana (With peel) for 3 days then poured through a Coffee Filter. Nice flavor, not chemical banana... just real fruit flavor. Very mild.
#3 is as it was. Not much flavor at all, very neutral and no off flavors. Just a hint of banana in the nose, but that's it!

I'm making freeken Vodka here with a pot still... which I don't understand because this batch ended up at 55% abv off the still. There should be plenty of flavor there no?

[Dnderhead]

put some copper in boiler and try with out the packing,,I found packing tends to remove flavors.
that is why they use plated stills for flavored drinks.

[RumBrewer]

put some copper in boiler and try with out the packing.

Like drop some of the scrubbers in, or end pieces of copper tubing?
Isn't it important to have the copper IN the vapor path?

[Dnderhead]

copper is more efficient in vapor path but will work in pot.

[Washashore]

Out of curiosity RB, why'd you leave the skin on the banana?

[RumBrewer]

Out of curiosity RB, why'd you leave the skin on the banana?

I asked myself if there was any flavor to be had in the skin. Judging by the smell of the banana peel that was laying on my desk when I decided to do this, I decided that there was a tone of flavor and aroma in the skin. While not the flavor that you'd want to eat necessarily, the aroma is fantastic.
When preparing my mash I figured there may be some enzymes that would work for a day or so in the skins. I have no regrets in using the skins.... No apparent downfall.

[Washashore]

Very cool. Gonna have to try that. Thanks for sharing