Wiring HillBilly's Controller for 120v???

[crossedrifles08]

Well, this is my first post, and I'll do a quick intro with it. I'm somewhat new to distilling, but not new to the product. My profession requires me to be VERY informed on the types, and how they are produced, and in what regions they have their roots. I've been using a small air still, read Mr. Distiller, for a while, and am looking at upgrading now that I've learned a little by way of hands-on.

I'm looking at purchasing Hill Billy's 13gal kit, and through email have spoken with mike, who from my understanding is a member here. He has informed me that the controller can be used with 120v by just wiring it for such. But I'm a little curious. I'm not really an electrician, although I'm sure I could figure it out with some studying. My biggest question is efficiency. If I were to swap out the 5500w element for something lower say in the 3000w area and converted to 120v, is this going to have enough juice to heat up the 13gal pot? How about if I don't swap the element?

I've read a few threads on the subject of building controllers and whatnot, and honestly they are not geared towards the layman, nor are they geared towards 110-120v from what I can gather. And to answer the question, I'm looking at going 110-120v due to the conditions of my location, which does not have 220v and the moment. Frankly I don't mind a 2hr warmup to operating temp, however I don't want it so underpowered that I'm waiting 3-4hrs for the thing to take off.

Any insight is welcome.

[vetting]

The wiring for 120 really isnt any different in this application - its just 3 wires. Just have to wire it to a normal 3 prong plug.

Someone can chime in on what element to use with 120. You can also put 2 elements to get the 13 gallons up to a boil faster. Have one hard wired and one on a controller. Just make sure they go to outlets that are not on the same breaker/fuse.

Or easiest, if you own the place, just put in a 240v outlet.

Also, please stop over to the welcome center and post and introduction of yourself.

[Prairiepiss]

Welcome aboard.

Not to be a jerk. But this same question has been asked 3 times in the last month?

[KY1792]

I have the same boiler and basically my version of his (MK's) controller, Friday I ran about 10 gallons of UJssm which took 45 minutes to start bubbling the 4" flute at 4800 watts - that's a big pipe and should have brought a 2" or 3" pot head to temp a bit quicker.

I'm gonna guess with simple math that the same 4800 watts at 120v would take 4 times as long or 3 hours at 1200 watts, I didn't run it at the rated 5500 watts because I like to bring it up slower - so if your element is 5500 watts / 4 = 1375 watts which would cut some time off that 3 hours. They do make 120v elements but rarely larger than 1500 watts and would be a bit quicker yet.

I would stay with the 240v 5500 watt element and try it with 120v @ 1375 watts, and or look around for a higher wattage 120v element. If it's too slow then you need to install a 240v 30 amp double pole circuit. There is really no way around the boil time with 120v unless you use the drain on that boiler for an extra 120v heating element (though they might hit each other) - of course you would need a separate circuit on another breaker to run it.

Edit: Correction, just looked and see the drain is too small for another heating element so you are back at square one.

[moonshine guy]

When you take a 240v 5500w down to 120v, you divide by 2 which makes it now 120v and now the heater is now 2750w, so you need a 25amp circuit breaker to run the heater safely now and please use a ground fault circuit to help protect this and you from harm!

[Dnderhead]

""240v 5500w down to 120v, you divide by 2 which makes it now 120v and now the heater is now 2750w"
wrong,, 5500w/240 element on 120 becomes 1375w

[KY1792]

There is really no way around the boil time with 120v unless you use the drain on that boiler for an extra 120v heating element (though they might hit each other) - of course you would need a separate circuit on another breaker to run it.

Correction, just looked and see the drain is too small for another heating element so you are back at square one.

and yes as Dnderhead has pointed out, power in wattage along with many other things in nature use the inverse square law - hence the division by 4 when halved by 2.

[KY1792]

Here is a quick math introduction to Ohm's Law, yes it is for DC rather than AC but is close enough for us without having to get into sinewave, cosigns, and vectors.

Power in watts = E^2 / R (Volts squared divided by resistance)

example one:
5500 watt heating element has a resistance of 10.47 ohms
120 volts times 120 volts = 14,440
14,440 divided by 10.47 equals 1375 watts

example two:
5500 watt heating element has a resistance of 10.47 ohms
240 volts times 240 volts = 57,600 (4 times that of 120 squared)
57,600 divided by 10.47 equals 5500 watts

example three:
5500 watt heating element has a resistance of 10.47 ohms
480 volts times 480 volts = 230,400 (16 times that of 120 squared)
230,400 divided by 10.47 equals 22,000 watts

I would doubt that an element not rated for 480v would survive for more then a few seconds at that voltage and was only to show the squaring law in action.

The same square law also work in pipe volume too, whereas a 2" pipe has 4 times the volume as a 1" pipe and a 4" pipe 16 times that of a 1" pipe. And don't get me started on the square-cube law as it has only been around for about 500 years and a mere baby compared to the square law.

[crossedrifles08]

Welcome aboard.

Not to be a jerk. But this same question has been asked 3 times in the last month?

Still new to this format of a BB, so the search function is kinda weird in how it displays the results. But trust me, I did a fairly in depth search. I understand that there are always questions that get asked over and over again on BB type forums. However, an attitude such as that I doubt is taken well by others. Maybe a better approach next time would be instead of scolding someone who is asking a legitimate question would be to ask if they had done a search first. And then maybe asked them what the results of that search were. Not to mention that while some questions may have been answered over and over, it might not be crystal clear to the one asking. Which from a safety aspect, especially concerning this hobby, is a big no go.

Now, on the subject of wattage, I understand the significant drop in juice truly does drop efficiency. So if limited to 120v would you suggest I just go with a smaller boiler? I'm not "fixed" so to speak on this still. I do have the required skills to purchase a 8gal boiler and silver solder on another flange for a second element. My question is simply from a electrical standpoint, in which I have little knowledge.

[Coaster]

@ crossedrifles08,

Like it or not Forum Members are not going to spoon feed information to novice Forum Members who fail to perform a Forum Search for answers to their questions. Conducting a Forum Search is not that difficult of a task to perform.


Now On To The Subject Of Electricity ->

Most home distillers after distilling for a while usually want to go bigger.

It appears that your problem is not a boiler size problem but an electrical supply problem. Instead of limiting your boiler size I believe you should be focusing on obtaining 220 voltage to your electric water heater element. If electricity is over your head suggest contacting relatives, friends, neighbors, co-works for assistance in getting 220 voltages to your electric water heater element.

Concerning phase angle controller -> Suggest considering making a PSR-25 based Phase Angle Controllers to control your water heater element. The ‘Heating Element Control’ thread in the ‘Related Hardware and Appurtenances’ Forum is rather extensive (29 + pages) but in that thread there is information/diagram for a PSR-25 based Phase Angle Controller. The ‘Phase Angle Control modules’ thread in the ‘New distiller reading Lounge’ provides links for the parts to make a PSR-25 based Phase Angle Controller.

Regards,
Coaster

[astronomical]

quartered wattage as stated. Just make sure you use a heavy duty plug and ample gauge wiring. I use 10AWG for everything and it's probably a slight overkill when running 120.

I digress. I hate the regular search function. Use HD Google search. The regular search function always tells me the words are too vague and its really Fing annoying. Hope this helps.

[Prairiepiss]

I thought I was being nice.

Here's the deal. If you are buying it from KS then you should probably ask KS.

But for what its worth. The unit you are looking at is sold to be used at 240v 5500w and can be run at 120v. The cables are supplied with it. So they should be plenty big enough. If you run on 120v I wouldn't go over 1500w @ 120v. That would be a safe wattage to use on a home 120 circuit.

I would say use a 5500w 240v element @ 120v that would be 1375w. The good thing about that element is it is at least 4 times as long as a 1500w 120v element. This means it will be less likely to scorch. And heat more evenly. Yes it may be a little lower and heat up will be a little longer. The choice is up to you. If you do go with the 5500w 240v element. You don't need to change it out later if you want to step up to 240v.

[cooperville]

Thanks for all the replys fellas I have been searching high and low to get an appropraite and straight answer to this exact same problem.I did have a quik chat with KS about his phase controller to run on 100V (Japan) and he wasnt to sure about the specifications.

But thanks to one guys 'stupid' question we all have the information that was so difficult to find on all forums for everyone to appreciate.

thanks again for all the info keep up the good work